caring for a finger leather
- Thread starter btodd43
- Start date
Well, generally they like an indirect flow/moderate lighting IME, and FYI go through a "shedding" phase where they get a coating on them as the coral purges guck from itself. Blow that gack off (gently) and siphon it out.
Other than the fact leathers are notorious for chemically nuking other corals, they don't take much in the way of care.
Other than the fact leathers are notorious for chemically nuking other corals, they don't take much in the way of care.
so..if they are notorious for "nuking" other corals, how does this happen? when they die?
i recently bought a toadstool frag from a LFS and it was acting fine for about 2 weeks, then all of the sudden all of those tiny polyps went in and it turned from pink to greyish.
i did a massive re-do if my tank and when i got done i noticed i couldn't find my toadstool. turns out, the little guy was buried under 2 inches of sand for a whole day. i pulled him out, and he looked bad, but then a skin coating peeled off of him and he looked pink again. now polyps are emerging. what the heck happened (i mean, besides me nearly killing it)?
is that skin purging thing you mentioned, what happened here?
i recently bought a toadstool frag from a LFS and it was acting fine for about 2 weeks, then all of the sudden all of those tiny polyps went in and it turned from pink to greyish.
i did a massive re-do if my tank and when i got done i noticed i couldn't find my toadstool. turns out, the little guy was buried under 2 inches of sand for a whole day. i pulled him out, and he looked bad, but then a skin coating peeled off of him and he looked pink again. now polyps are emerging. what the heck happened (i mean, besides me nearly killing it)?
is that skin purging thing you mentioned, what happened here?
mr_X":rswwk9k8 said:
the 'shedding' (waxy/cellphane looking coating appearing and sloughing off) is normal, and a way of the coral to rid itself of excess food/organics
(carbon, nitrogen, etc etc.)
i've found leathers to do better the more current you give them, (they stiffen up more than you might think they could against a current-just don't blast 'em with a narrow jet of water 3" directly in front of a narrow spout powerhead-you always want large volumes of water, not narrow high velocity jets, moving against a coral) and i've never heard of one 'nuking' anything
there are far more potent 'nukers' in most tanks than leathers, imo
it wasn't waxy cellophane looking. it was more like greenish/brownish seaweed looking.
a point i think i failed to make was if leathers nuked tanks when they die, but on the otherhand, "they don't take much in the way of care", how do they die? acute negligence? and is it the death that brings on the nuking?
a point i think i failed to make was if leathers nuked tanks when they die, but on the otherhand, "they don't take much in the way of care", how do they die? acute negligence? and is it the death that brings on the nuking?
algae can often grow on/in the coating, and there may be something here with the leather using it's 'shed' as a way to rid itself of algae (possibly boring types?) hgrowing on its skin
any coral can 'nuke' a tank if it dies, heh-simply from the organics surge
a coral can often suck up so much of a nutrient/element that it causes others to 'wither' temporarily, too, if they aren't replaced fast enough
fwiw,i had a 16" across yellow leather in a low 75 years ago, that 'melted' in one day-i left it in the tank, and fragged what was left of the 'cap'-never removed any part of it at all, including what 'melted'/rotted.
nothing in the tank was worse for the wear
(of course, that tank recieved weekly water changes of over 60%, and was well skimmed-but i never saw any indicatyion of even a remote 'direct poisoning' of anything else by or from the leather )
i wonder how many of the reports of 'nuking' of anything by anything were actually proven to be direct results/cause, rather than a cause and effect relation assumed by the hobbyist from casual/anecdotal observation ?
any coral can 'nuke' a tank if it dies, heh-simply from the organics surge
a coral can often suck up so much of a nutrient/element that it causes others to 'wither' temporarily, too, if they aren't replaced fast enough
fwiw,i had a 16" across yellow leather in a low 75 years ago, that 'melted' in one day-i left it in the tank, and fragged what was left of the 'cap'-never removed any part of it at all, including what 'melted'/rotted.
nothing in the tank was worse for the wear
(of course, that tank recieved weekly water changes of over 60%, and was well skimmed-but i never saw any indicatyion of even a remote 'direct poisoning' of anything else by or from the leather
)i wonder how many of the reports of 'nuking' of anything by anything were actually proven to be direct results/cause, rather than a cause and effect relation assumed by the hobbyist from casual/anecdotal observation ?
vitz":pakq8nez said:there are far more potent 'nukers' in most tanks than leathers, imo
Of course there are dear one, but I think leathers are a bit underrated that way. Because they don't form sweepers, they are kind underestimated in terms of damage inflicted.
how do you verify that a leather 'nuked' a tank, or a coral, 'directly' ? (by specific stinging or toxin activity towards the coral or the system).
or is 'nuked' just a general term for what happens to a system when a coral rots in it, and no proper care is taken to correct the pollution issue?
or is 'nuked' just a general term for what happens to a system when a coral rots in it, and no proper care is taken to correct the pollution issue?
vitz":3v5fkk0a said:
I'm puzzled here Vitz, I in no way stated when a leather sheds it :nukes: a tank. I said they can damage other corals. Biochemically, they produce terpenes.
The first of many sources for that info that comes to mind is Eric Borneman's book. There is substantial evidence that leathers practice chemical warfare on other corals and can damage them. Personally, I found out the hard way that can be true.
yeah, you really want to be sure you dont have anything delicate downwind of a leather in a low non turbid flow zone, if its in a moderate turbid area there usually isnt much of a problem, basically, if you have some corals that suddenlly arent looking very good, and you have a leather upwind, chances are simply moving one will solve that problem, but it couldattack something else depending on where its moved, though as stated. a good multii-directional flow will pretty much solve the problem before it starts, with a uni directional flow it could just bombard an unsuspecting coral
Terpenes can be nasty, but simply keeping in mind they're there goes a long way towards rendering them harmless. As already mentioned their effects can be minimized with good flow. I'd only really really worry about them if the leather is physically touching another coral, the flow in the area is minimal, or if there were a -lot- of leathers present compared to non-leathers.
But even then, if I recall correctly, terpenes are removed by carbon. And by protein skimming.
Anybody else remember the 150 pound leather that Ron Hunsicker had?
Mostly. They can get by on less then optimal conditions for a very long time, but eventually it can catch up with them if it isn't fixed. Leather eating slugs and snails turn up on new imports sometimes, too.
But even then, if I recall correctly, terpenes are removed by carbon. And by protein skimming.
Anybody else remember the 150 pound leather that Ron Hunsicker had?
Mostly. They can get by on less then optimal conditions for a very long time, but eventually it can catch up with them if it isn't fixed. Leather eating slugs and snails turn up on new imports sometimes, too.
Lawdawg":2qw6oiv5 said:
heh ALL corals engage in continual chemical warfare, (and also physical, like shading) and any tank left alone long enough will most likely remain with only one coral species dominating in it
as cj stated (and per my own personal observations) all that's needed to mitigate any 'nuking' is proper tank maintenance-large water changes, skimming, etc
vitz":1krt9jaj said:Lawdawg":1krt9jaj said:
heh ALL corals engage in continual chemical warfare, (and also physical, like shading) and any tank left alone long enough will most likely remain with only one coral species dominating in it
as cj stated (and per my own personal observations) all that's needed to mitigate any 'nuking' is proper tank maintenance-large water changes, skimming, etc
Again, please Vitz point out where I have said anything to the contrary? The original poster was talking about a 6 gallon nano, which could pose a greater problem with cross coral warfare.
Other than the fact leathers are notorious for chemically nuking other corals, they don't take much in the way of care
for one, i've never heard even a mild reputation of that-and it's hogwash, imo
any properly maintained tank will not get a 'nuke'- the whole idea and concept is one i find ludicrous-it's not the corals that nuke, it's the hobbyist and the hobbyist's lack of preparedness/proper maintenance
putting a leather in 6 gallon tank with other corals predicates daily water changes, which brings us back to:
corals compete with each other-that's a fact of life on a reef-it's like saying that a tiger will 'nuke' a dog when kept in an apartment-the tiger is just being a tiger-the nuker is the one who placed it together with the dog
just my 0.02
for one, i've never heard even a mild reputation of that-and it's hogwash, imo
any properly maintained tank will not get a 'nuke'- the whole idea and concept is one i find ludicrous-it's not the corals that nuke, it's the hobbyist and the hobbyist's lack of preparedness/proper maintenance
putting a leather in 6 gallon tank with other corals predicates daily water changes, which brings us back to:
any properly maintained tank will not get a 'nuke'- the whole idea and concept is one i find ludicrous-it's not the corals that nuke, it's the hobbyist
corals compete with each other-that's a fact of life on a reef-it's like saying that a tiger will 'nuke' a dog when kept in an apartment-the tiger is just being a tiger-the nuker is the one who placed it together with the dog
just my 0.02
i'm not trying to be combative here
and i'm not addressing any of this to you in particular-but there's from time to time statements made by many in this hobby that seem to become 'lore' that are simply without foundation or are 'misattributions' to things that should be EXPECTED to occur simply by the animal's we're keeping natures, or to assumed cause and effect via pure anecdotal conclusion without proper analysis by the observer, and that irks me abit, and i apologize if my slightly passionate stance is rubbing you the wrong way
i've seen so many leathers in so many tanks kept right next to other corals with no issues whatsoever, and have seen so many decomposing, or ill, leathers in wholesalers systems that don't affect other corals at all, that i find it incredibly hard to imagine them getting any reputation of any kind for being particularly bothersome to another coral, provided the system is kept basically well maintained (skimming, water changes)
most generalizations made about corals in this hobby are simply a result of bandwagon jumpers latching on to a few people's isolated experience...
someone will write about terpenes, phenols, etc etc, and a new hobbyist will place a leather in a new, immature tank and lose something else in that tank, and 'conclude' that it was 'nuked by the leather' heh
i'm merely providing a slightly (and hopefully healthy) skeptical viewpoint about the whole 'nuke' thing being sought as a reason so easily by those who do
just my 0.02
and i'm not addressing any of this to you in particular-but there's from time to time statements made by many in this hobby that seem to become 'lore' that are simply without foundation or are 'misattributions' to things that should be EXPECTED to occur simply by the animal's we're keeping natures, or to assumed cause and effect via pure anecdotal conclusion without proper analysis by the observer, and that irks me abit, and i apologize if my slightly passionate stance is rubbing you the wrong way
i've seen so many leathers in so many tanks kept right next to other corals with no issues whatsoever, and have seen so many decomposing, or ill, leathers in wholesalers systems that don't affect other corals at all, that i find it incredibly hard to imagine them getting any reputation of any kind for being particularly bothersome to another coral, provided the system is kept basically well maintained (skimming, water changes)
most generalizations made about corals in this hobby are simply a result of bandwagon jumpers latching on to a few people's isolated experience...
someone will write about terpenes, phenols, etc etc, and a new hobbyist will place a leather in a new, immature tank and lose something else in that tank, and 'conclude' that it was 'nuked by the leather' heh
i'm merely providing a slightly (and hopefully healthy) skeptical viewpoint about the whole 'nuke' thing being sought as a reason so easily by those who do
just my 0.02
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