New 200 gallon in-wall setup (was: cracked center brace)

[preston_brown]

OK, big mistake. And I know better. I am (finally) re-establishing a 200 gallon oceanic reef tank that has been down for almost four years. Right now I'm cycling rock, etc. I got a new 250 watt metal halide HQI fixture, and while testing it out/looking at the color, I *set it on the center glass brace* of the tank, which is about 2 feet wide. Well, about an hour later, wouldn't you know it -- BANG, it blew up.

The good: no inhabitants in the tank yet. Front and back glass are fine. Tank doesn't appear to be warping. I was able to get 99.5% of the bits and pieces of glass out of the tank.

The bad: my center brace is cracked, and I need to fix it. I am also unsure of the structural integrity of the tank without the brace.

Questions:

Drain the tank? Probably answer is yes, and I am going to drain it down to almost the gravel, but wanted to know people's experiences with this. Would it blow out w/o the brace?

Fixing: Can I just get a piece of glass w/the same dimensions from the local glass store? Maybe I could get starfire glass, that would be better anyway. Should I get the same thickness? I think this is 1/2" thick. Can you just silicone it in w/regular silicone?

Anyone who has been here before and has tips, please chime in. And like I said, I know better. Don't repeat my mistake.

-- Preston

 

[nanogirl]

it is my understanding that w/o the center brace the tank is no good, the weight of the water will just make the tank bow outward till it eventually breaks, i was also under the impression that there is no way to repair that kind of break well enough for it to be secure, so it was also my understanding that once the center brace is broken that the tank is no longer useable. i could be wrong of course, always way smarter people out there who may have some idea

 

[trido]

Fixing: Can I just get a piece of glass w/the same dimensions from the local glass store? Maybe I could get starfire glass, that would be better anyway. Should I get the same thickness? I think this is 1/2" thick. Can you just silicone it in w/regular silicone?

Yes you can get a piece of glass from your local supplier. I wouldnt use any thickness less than what AGA used already. Ive never repaired a tank like this personally but have read that the upper plastic rim can be removed and replaced. YOu will probably have to do this in order to clean the old glass and silicone off and get a good enough bond with the new piece. You may also have to buy a whole new rim piece from AGA. When you get silicone .DO NOT BUY the mildew resistant kitchen and bath silicone. It contains toxins that are harmful to the reef. For this repair I would recommend removing the tank from the wall and completely emtying it of everything. This is more than a couple hour repair. Most likely a couple days



Also, I noticed in your pic that you have the rim of the tank built into a wall with tile and spray foamed for noise. Am I wrong i assuming this is a built in tank? . I can speak fo rmost here when I say we like to follow along tank builds. I have a built in myself and posting pics and questions as I went help immensly. Second opinions and ideas are a great thing when it comes to the details of building a reef.

 

[preston_brown]

OK well maybe this can be a mix and match thread while I repair the tank and get the rest of the stuff ready to roll.

Yes, the tank is built into the wall, with a dedicated fish room. More on that in a minute.

I cut out the remnants of the center brace this morning. Took quite a few passes with a single edge razor blade, but finally it was able to be removed, in two large chunks, front and back. The narrow plastic center brace helped hold the larger chunks together, so that was a good thing.

I may be able to get some accurate dimensions front-to-back on the original brace piece by reconstructing it a bit, I think that will be the best way to go other than calling Oceanic directly.

There is no noticeable bowing at the moment. The tank is about half full, I'm going to drain a bit more today anyway. I'll drain it to the sand line when I silicone in the new piece to insure minimum pressure.

I looked at the plastic rim/glass interface; on this oceanic the plastic rim rides along the top of the glass but doesn't extend down on the inside at all. I.e. you can see the top edge of the glass if you look on the inside where I removed the brace and the silicone. See picture. For that reason, I think I will be OK to simply scuff the glass with 000 steel wool to insure good adhesion, and then run a bead front and back, put the glass in place, and then run a bead along the bottom edge and smooth it. I don't think removing the plastic rim should be necessary. Other opinions welcomed.

As for the tank room: I had the tank on a stand in my living room for three years, until January 2003. An ice storm knocked out power for five days and destroyed the tank. I had no generator at the time.

Fast forward to now, and I have done a renovation on my house, part of which added a fish room. The tank is built into the wall to my office. I've been moving *very* slowly on this build and install because I have young kids and a busy work schedule, but I'm trying to step on the gas a little bit. Unfortunately I think I was riding that pedal a little too hard last night, working on a water change for my live rock cure.

So I've had this tank up and running before and I know quite a bit about reefing, but I'm using this opportunity to set up the tank again to try and do some things "better" than before. I.e. automatic water top-off system, skimmer out of the sump, different return pump, etc. etc. The tank room is about 13 feet by 6 feet, and is tiled about halfway up. The room was constructed w/bathroom-type insulation and a vapor barrier. One of the problems I had w/the tank in the living room was rust and corrosion; my brass lamps and floor registers got rusty, the air intake to the air conditioning system twenty feet away in the hall rusted too. This room is a "negative pressure" environment where air from the house can only enter, not leave. It is directly exhausted through a bathroom-type fan to the outside. This fan is controlled by a thermostat/humidistat to make sure the room doesn't get too hot or too moist. It works well and if anyone wants details I'd be happy to share.

The tank room has a floor drain in the center and a sink. The drain has been GREAT for water changes and cleanup. Very wise choice.

As you can see I'm curing 150 lbs of Fiji right now, and I'm still figuring out my lighting. I've got 2 400 watt PFO spiderlights from "last time," and a new 250 watt PFO HQI that I want to use to light the center. But when I hang it, it will be FAR AWAY from the center brace. Not going to repeat last night's mistake any time soon.

Take a look, let's discuss.

 

[preston_brown]

More pictures...

 

[preston_brown]

Here's an overview shot of the whole fish room...

 

[Anonymous]

I'd drain it most of the way and then silicone in the brace. If you replace it while it's mostly full, you're sealing it in the 'pushed out' position. when you empty it again it will put stress on the brace when it flexes back.

B

 

[nanogirl]

wow love the setup and the way the tank in the wall is framed! i would love to do somthing like that in my house

 

[trido]

That is a very nice tank room. I wish I could kick the washer and dryer out of mine and get more space. The humidistat/thermostat system you have looks top notch as well.
Regarding the center brace. If you measure the broken piece and can compare it to the end of the tank and they are within an 1/8" you should be fine. Clean glass and a nice tight silicone bead are going to be the most critical when making your repair.

Keep the pics and posts coming.

 

[preston_brown]

I ordered a new piece of glass today, it will be Starfire this time which should help a little bit with light transmittal. Should be about a week. In the meantime I'll continue my live rock cure. Smells much better in the fishroom after the water changes and scrubbing I did yesterday...

 

[Vasces]

On a side note, I dig your light bulb holder.

 

[preston_brown]

OK! The center brace was repaired today. I've been worrying more about getting my car working (my other hobby):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=330349

Also, I've been taking care of curing the live rock rather than getting this done, but today was the day.

I was pondering how I was going to get the glass to stay in place while the silicone cured. Clamps wouldn't work because of the in-wall situation for the front pane. Finally, I came up with the solution in the attached picture. It is a bottle-jack sitting on a left over tub of carbon, and spreading the load through a block of wood. Talk about using what you have lying around...

It is working well. Should be all set up tomorrow, I will cut away a bit of the excess and then refill. Live rock is fully cured now, and will be joining the tank this week. Lights will be hung too; I ended up going with some spring loaded up/down adjustable light hangers from Growlab (www.growlab.net) that should be really slick.

-- Preston

 

[trido]

Looks good. What exactly are you doing with that hydraulic jack?

 

[preston_brown]

The jack is holding the glass lightly against the plastic support rim at the top of the tank, which is insuring that everything cures up nice and level. If you look at the front edge of the tank, notice that the plastic rim extends a little bit to the inside. The glass sits underneath this.

 

[preston_brown]

The center brace is fully repaired. The new starfire glass is very clear and looks good.

Today, I spent a good chunk of my time mounting my metal halides over the tank. They are mounted on spring-tension pulleys from an on-line hydroponic/indoor garden shop that let me move the lights up and down. That way I can raise them up out of the way easily when I am working inside the tank. This seemed like a much better idea than a chain.

Also had to build an adjustable shelf on the wall next to the tank to hold the ballasts.

I hope to move the live rock that is now fully cured into the tank this week. Progress feels good.

 

[LA-Lawman]

good job on the glass repair. I was thinking.... i had a buddy with a similar issue. he decided to repair the glass as you did but built an outer frame for the tank inside his fish room. because the the tank is framed on the outside of his room. he was able to reinforce the other side with a exoskelton type design and have alittle more piece of mind. you have the room in your stand design to do it if it ever came down to it.


hth

ben

 

[Snowboarda42]

Yeah I was going to suggest the same thing, Build a frame around at least the top rim that connects to the wall you have the tank set into. That would keep it from flexing a little bit as well. Maybe something you might do anyways, just for peace of mind. And it would only go around the edge, so it won't be in the way at all...

 

[bleedingthought]

Looks good. Unless you've already thought of it, you might want o build yourself a little light rack (even if it's just a piece of plywood going all the way across) to keep thing level and save on how many of the pulleys you're using.

 

[ChrisRD]

Nice setup Preston! 8)

 

[preston_brown]

My original plan was to have a light rack. However, two things caused me to go this route:

1. I had to use heavy-duty toggle bolts on two of the hangers because I wasn't able to get them into a stud and put them over the portion of the tank that was desired. I suppose I could mount a long 2x4 or similar to the ceiling, screw that into joists, and then hang a rack from that, but that wouldn't solve issue #2, which is:

2. I want to be able to raise and lower the lights individually so as to adjust the amount of light being directed at the tank. Specifically, the center lamp needs to be at a different height because of the glass brace. I don't want to ever have to deal with replacing that again. When the tank was previously set up with a hood, I only had the two 400 watt metal halides on the sides of the brace, no center metal halide, and supplementary 48" VHOs, so heating of the brace was not an issue. I have ditched the VHOs this time around and added the center halide, so of course the situation has changed.

All the rock is in the tank now, not arranged nicely yet though. Just wanted to see how much I really had before planning a decorating scheme.

Now, for a problem. I have an auto-top off system I have rigged up that needs some engineering work. I have a large RO-DI reservoir that holds about 25 gallons and is located adjacent to the sump. Probably about 36" high, and a float switch is hooked at the very top of it to control flow from the RO-DI filter. The sump is adjacent and usually runs about 8-10" of water. I got one of those auto-top off relays that has a float switch which I have placed at my desired water level in the sump, and then I have a small powerhead inside the reservoir with tubing leading from it into the sump. The problem is that when it kicks on and fills the sump until the float switch turns the powerhead back off, it has at that point started a siphon, because the water level in the reservoir is higher than that of the sump. I determined this when I was testing things out, luckily, not while in "production." This is a disaster waiting to happen, so I'm not actually using the system yet.

I've thought of a couple of ways to deal with this; putting the tubing up high above the sump would work, but then it will splash some while filling. Anyone have a better method?

Thanks,

Preston