Sump for a larger aquarium?

[jdmneon]

Hey guys I recently purchased a 225 gallon reef aquarium and I was wondering whether or not I needed to purchase a sump to run a wet-dry filter. In my 29-Gallon I ran a power filter and it's worked great. I was wondering if maybe I could just run three or four (larger) power filters on my 225, I think it would create a cool effect with the water running down like waterfalls.

I would really prefer not to run a sump as it would mean a lot of extra work.

I have owned a 29-gallon reef aquarium for a year, and have all manner of soft, LPS, and even or two SPS corals. I have ran a power filter the entire time and water quality has always been pristine.


I have a 150 pounds of LR in the 225 Gallon
-Thanks

 

[bleedingthought]

First of, :welcome:

I personally like sumps a whole lot. Some benefits are: ability to hide equipment (heaters, filtration media, pumps, skimmers), extra water volume (stability), added oxygen to water (from overflow/bubbles), ability to always keep the water level in display the same (the evaporated level will go down in sump instead), and the fact that I personally think that it's more work in the beginning but less work after that!

BUT, it is obviously possible to run a healthy tank with no sump. Your power filters will help with circulation and you can add some media to it to help. But if you decide to go with no sump, instead of getting four power filters, invest in a good hang-on-tank skimmer and some good pumps for circulation inside the tank and you should be much better off.

Hope that helps.

 

[fcmatt]

since i dislike power cords in the tank or even around it, except in
the hood or the vortech pump cord, i think a sump is mandatory.

on a tank your size, i can only imagine how many cords will be
running to it...

good luck!

 

[Len]

Welcome!

A sump will provide you with more options down the line, but it is totally necessary. However, you are going to be severely limited by your selection in protein skimmers, and this is what I consider the biggest drawback of a sumpless design. Skimmers are vital IMHO. They do so much good work that it's really a critical component in any aquarium I set up. You can get some larger hang-ons (like Turboflotor Multi or Coralife Superskimmers), but the "real deal" skimmers need sumps.

Power filters can't do a whole lot for marine tanks. They have mechanical filtration you have to clean out often (most marine tanks don't use mechanical filtrations at all) and usually have integrated activated carbon that is of low quality (leeches phosphates, for example). A few big canister filters is a better idea, but that is even subpar compared to a sump with a good protein skimmer.

 

[bleedingthought]

A sump will provide you with more options down the line, but it is totally necessary.

I think Len meant to say unnecessary.

By the way, jdmneon: You could use your 29G tank as a sump, although it is a bit small for a tank that size, it could still work.

 

[Len]

/me sits corrected

 

[jdmneon]

thanks for the prompt reply's guys, this is the first forum I've come to that actually seems to care enough about hobby to answer inexperienced-moderately experienced hobbyists.

I wasn't just talking about a normal powerfilter, the one in question is a

bio-wheel
Penguin 350B Power Filter
Up to 75 gallon tank

I was going to run four of these off of the aquarium. In conjunction with a hang-on the back Protein skimmer.

I was wondering if you guys knew of any other hang on the back protein skimmers big enough for a 225 Gallon tank besides the two already mentioned. I like to have some choices

I forgot to mention that I would run the best hang-on skimmer I could find along with the four filters.

Also my 29 Gallon is too pretty of a tank to be used as a sump

I also don't mind power cords, in fact I don't know why but I'm kind of a techy and I actually kind of like the huge lumps of cords and adapters and such.

 

[Len]

If you're going to use a nice hang-on skimmer, you probably won't need any power filters. Most people's reef tanks just use skimmers as their only form of artificial filtration.

Alas, I can't think of any other big hang-on skimmers. I suppose you can have get a custom built skimmer that is taller then the height of your tank and sit it on the floor along side the tank

 

[jdmneon]

I really like to have a few though, it increases water circulation and weeds out, they also provide a breeding ground for amphipods and copepods, (you should see how many are in there)

it also breaks down Nitrite and Ammonia at a much faster rate than just a skimmer.

hmmm? Turboflotor Multi or Coralife Superskimmers, which would be the better of these two in your opinion?

or if anyone has any other suggestions for hang-on skimmer for a big tank they would be welcome.

 

[Len]

If you'd like to use them as a "refugium," there's no problem with it. You can also buy some hang-on refugiums made by such companies as CPR. These will provide you more volume and thus more pod growth.

The biowheels facilitate aerobic activity and increases surface area for bacteria to cultivate, but there really is no shortage of aerobic activity or surface area in marine aquariums. Biowheels are more useful for freshwater tanks. If you want to increase flow, there are much better devices. I would recommend Seio if you are looking for something cheap, or perhaps modified Maxijet pumps (prop mods). For more money, Tunze and Vortech provides the best flow. Whatever the case, multiple power filters really does not do a good job with the type of circulation you want in a marine/reef aquarium. You'll still need some powerheads or the devices I mentioned.

Of the two skimmers, I'd go with the TF only because I have direct experience with it. It is undersized for your size tank, but there really is no hang-on skimmers that will accommodate a 225g. Such a skimmer would be too big and dangerous to hang on the back of a tank.

 

[jdmneon]

The turbo says its good up to 250 gallons.

Also I don't understand why you would overlook Mechanical filtration in a saltwater aquarium, Mechanical filtration is one of the three types of filtration, overlooking it would be just like overlooking biological or chemical filtration. Also big canister filters aren't really in my budget.

Mechanical filtration, along with providing a (albeit limited) refugium. And on top of that increasing water circulation (sure I'll get a powerhead or two as well)

Those seem like more than enough reason to buy a few, its really cheap compared to anything else you buy in this hobby.

Why would mechanical filtration be more important in a freshwater tank than in a saltwater tank?

 

[bleedingthought]

The biowheel isn't part of mechanical filtration but rather biological filtration.

 

[cindre2000]

Protein skimmers are mechanical filtration. They trump puny little hang on filters every day of the week, including week ends. Protein skimmers remove proteins, chemicals, nutrients, etc. Hang on filters remove large particulate matter, rely on chemical filtration to remove some of the afore mentioned chemicals, and require a biological component to break down what the carbon cannot handle.

Live rock covers biological (with good flow); while a protein skimmer handles mechanical. With these two, you should not even need chemical (unless you are really over stocking your tank; or you have nasty top-off water).

 

[cindre2000]

One modification to my previous post. You need a GOOD protein skimmer to do this.

 

[bleedingthought]

I think his problem at hand at this point is finding a GOOD protein skimmer that is hang-on and can handle 225 gallons!

 

[cindre2000]

He should probably just break down and buy an in-sump(etc.) skimmer. Better skimmers for the price.

 

[bleedingthought]

He should probably just break down and buy an in-sump(etc.) skimmer. Better skimmers for the price.

That would be the only choice for me.

 

[Anonymous]

JDMNEON- I guess you get the jist here. Get the sump! :lol:

My first tank was also a 29g, run with a hang-on filter. And it worked fine for a couple of years, but never got nearly as clean (low nutrient) as later tanks with sumps with high flow and heavy skimming. A sump with a good protein skimmer will give you a cleaner tank, with less long-term hassle, than going the hang-on route.

Is there room in the stand for a small sump? It doesn't need to be large, and you can DIY small ones pretty easily.

Does your new tank come with an overflow built in?

BTW- I have the CL Super skimmer. Pretty good for the money. But I don't think the large model could reasonably handle 225g. ...unless you're lightly stocked or mostly LPS/soft corals/wanting higer DOCs.

 

[jdmneon]

alright I guess a sump might be a good idea, but I don't even know where to start, I don't know how to hook a sump up to my tank.

Or how to start the protein skimmer, or what to put in the sump.

I really don't know where to start, I have a lot of experience with Freshwater, and moderate experience with salt. But I don't know anything about how to build a sump

I have a 45 Gallon tank I could use as a sump but I don't know how to hook it up.

-Thanks

 

[bleedingthought]

Yeah, it is intimidating when you first start with sumps. But it becomes fun and easy and you'll see how much you'll love it!!!

Ok, first things first. Does your tank have an overflow like John Henry mentioned? If it does, half of your work is done! If not, then you need to the tank drilled. Most tanks have tempered bottoms. If yours does, then you can drill the back. You need to have a drain but it'd be better to have 2 with that size tank. Some people also drill for your return line but it's not necessary.

Then, you need have an overflow, which all it is is a box, usually made out of acrylic, that lets the top .5" of water be drain therefore skimming the top of the water. These can be purchased whole and just be siliconed into your tank or be built custom.

Next, you will plumb your drains and returns using PVC pipes, maybe some valves, and bulkheads, which are these fittings that are using for holes in containers (aquariums) so that a pipe can go through the hole but it's sealed.

Your drain will just dump water into the sump. In the sump, you will place your heater(s), any mechanical filtration if you still want any , your protein skimmer, and a return pump. So, the sump only needs to be large enough to hold these things in there. That 45 gallon tank would be WAY perfect!!!

That's all. The only things you will have in your tank, as far as equipment goes, will be additional powerheads for circulation.

This might sound complicated but it will make more sense to you later on. This forum is full of ideas, pictures, and different ways you can accomplish all this. If for whatever reason you can't find much, let us know and we'll all whip up some links for you!