PLUMBING A 155 BOWFRONT REEF

[Razor]

I'm in the process of moving my 155 bowfront and decided this was good time to also replumb the tank. Below is the idea I had for plumbing and would like some feedback.

Basically, one overflow will go to the sump, which houses the protein skimmer, then back to one Iwaki 40 and to the tank.

The second overflow, goes directly to the intake of the second Iwaki 40 then the output is split. One side of the split is sent to the chiller and then to the refugium, which overflows back into the sump (this split will be dialed down to allow the chiller to work correctly). The other side of the split will be sent through a SCWD into the tank.

What do you think?

 

[Anonymous]

Ditch the SCWD. They chew up a lot of head.

 

[Razor]

I've heard that, but I can't seem to find any other solution that doesn't also cost an arm and a leg. I'm about to go to HomeDepot to see if I can find anything in the sprinkler section that can automate the opening and closing of the zones and still be able to handle saltwater safely, no rusting etc.

What do you think about the rest of the plumbing?

 

[Anonymous]

You have some issues that need to be fixed.

First one is the one that will cause you big problems. The pump that powers the chiller, SCWD and Fuge drains to the sump and tank. Somthing looks not right. With the second pump going into the sump I think you have a good possibility of flooding. Esp if your main pump tanks. I would change it to go pump-chiller-SCWD-tank. Then have the tank drain to a skimmer compartment-fuge-pump. Also have the chiller pump pull from the sump not the tank. If you main pump goes out you will burn up your chiller pump. Unless it is a closed loop.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with wazzie, ditch the SCWD. Spend a little more money on "arm and a leg" stuff, if you're going to have a nice large tank don't get cheap on one or two pieces and find yourself replacing it down the line (trust me I've done that a few times). Try something like an OceansMotions device, you can get a squirt that can handle around 1200 GPH, or if that's enough get a super squirt which can handle 2500gph for an addition $75. It'll cost you $150 for the squirt, which IMO is money well spent.

 

[Razor]

Wazzel, thanks for the input. Definitely a good idea not to flood the house. Can I run the chiller on the closed loop? If so, then where would you put the temperature probe? It's along shot, but that means that if the closed loop pump goes dead, technically the chiller could run continuously until I find it and turn it off, right?

Also, regarding the OceansMotions device. it just seems like a lot of money for a glorified solenoid valve. If found at Homedepot a sprinkler valve in which all metal parts are isolated, and therefore no saltwater will touch them. Only problem is that the sprinkler timers are not made for continuous, all day, cycling through the zones, which would be needed for the "wavemaker" to work correctly. Any ideas?

 

[Anonymous]

Well if you can find a good homedepot solution go for it, the OM device literally is a solid hunk of PVC that gets machined to have openings, with another piece of machined PVC inside of it with strong magnets built in, then there's a motor which spins at 1 RPM at the top that has magnets in it, so the two pieces are magnetically coupled which is how it spins. Anything you get at homedepot will be hydraulically powered so you're back at the same boat as the SCWD, also don't know if it'd be able to handle the volume of water you shoot at it.

Trust me there's a lot of DIY like me out there who have searched for a way to do this on the cheap, and there doesn't seem to be too much you can do. $150 is a small price to pay for part of a tank.

Afterall a skimmer is nothing more than a pump hooked up to a chamber that holds the bubbles.. yet here we are, people buy higher quality skimmers (i.e. pricier) for a reason.

 

[Anonymous]

Wazzel, thanks for the input. Definitely a good idea not to flood the house. Can I run the chiller on the closed loop? If so, then where would you put the temperature probe? It's along shot, but that means that if the closed loop pump goes dead, technically the chiller could run continuously until I find it and turn it off, right?

Also, regarding the OceansMotions device. it just seems like a lot of money for a glorified solenoid valve. If found at Homedepot a sprinkler valve in which all metal parts are isolated, and therefore no saltwater will touch them. Only problem is that the sprinkler timers are not made for continuous, all day, cycling through the zones, which would be needed for the "wavemaker" to work correctly. Any ideas?

Yes you can run the chiller off a closed loop. Just make sure you do not draw from one of the overflows. If your main pump goes out half the water pumped from the chiller per time interval will drain to the sump. Relatively quickly you will not get any water to the chiller leg and will burn up the pump. And yes if the chiller pump goes out the chiller could run until you notice. You should be checking you tank atleast once a day to make sure things are ok. I check mine twice, once in the morning before going to work and once in the evening. Nothing major just a quick once over to make sure every thing is running. As far as the temp probe you could put it in the main tank.

The OM unit is worth the money. I had the OM squirt on a tank and it was a great device. I also tried the SCWD and they are horrible. Expect to loose atleast 25% of your pump output. If you have a non pressure rated pump it will be more like 50%. Also the SQWDs are prone to jambing and no longer switching. The mechanism that makes it switch is a series of small gears that drive a paddle. The gears get mucked up and are impossible to clean. With the OM unit a barrel is driven by a motor and you can take the unit apart to clean.

Good luck.

 

[Razor]

I was going to use sprinkler valves attached to a cycle timer, which will open and close the valves at set increments. Then I was going to put on one leg of the closed loop a pressure valve in case the sprinkler valves fail, to relieve pressure from the system as to not blow the pump. This would allow me to control more precisely which returns are on and for how long. Is this not a good idea?

Also, with the closed loop, one of the members of this board plumbed his tank with returns in the front of the tank, under the sand. This seemed like a pretty cool idea when combined with some surface returns, which in my case will be main returns from the sump. Any suggestions?

 

[Anonymous]

I do not follow your sprinkler valve thing, but give it a try. As far as the returns are you going to come over the back then to the bottom with them? You are going to need a syphon break somewhere to keep from draining the tank down to that level when the main pump goes off. If you are going to go through the bottom directly with the main return them it would be a bad idea.

 

[Razor]

I'm going over the back with the returns for the closed loop, but I'm using a check valve to prevent draining the tank.

Also, I was thinking about the main drain issue. If I use the left drain for the main pump, sump etc. and the right drain for the closed loop, wouldn't I be safe, in case the main pump goes dead, as long as there is enough open space in the sump to handle the extra water? I'm trying to avoid drilling another hole in the tank, one more chance for a leak, or using a hang on overflow box, and utilizing the second drain would solve the problem as long as I can prevent a disaster in the event that the main pump goes dead.

 

[Anonymous]

Going over the back is good. Personally I do not like check valves. They need to be maintained to function properly and they take flow from your pump. An anti syphon hole just at or below the water sutface would be my choise (it is what I use). In my tank I have a 3/16 hole at the same level as the bottom of the overflow teeth in both return lines. They can be visually inspected every time you walk past the tank if you like.

As far as using the second overflow IMO it is a bad idea for a closed loop suction. Consider your tank being off. You add 1 gallon to the tank. Half goes down each overflow. Now you return 1/2 gallon to the tank, again half goes down each overflow. Now you return 1/4 gallon to the tank, etc, etc. At some point you are not returning enough to the closed loop pump and you will have issues. If your overflows have two holes in them then you coulds use one hole from each and that would solve the problem.

 

[Razor]

Wazzel, sorry for all the questions. I've been in the hobby a while but this is the first time I'm attempting a plumbing job that isn't your standard sump/return job.

The overflows I have each have two holes in them. Currently one hole is used for the drain and other for the return. Are you suggesting that I use both holes for drains, one for the main pump and one for the closed loop? Then, do I tee them together prior to the sump or let them drain individually into the sump. Obviously, the closed loop has to be a tee as there is only one input on the pump.

Also, I need to see if I can fit two durso pipes into each over flow.

Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

That is exactely what I am suggesting. You do not need to fit two dursos. The CL does not need one. The water level will be high enough that you should not get any noise. I have two drains and I just let them drain individually into the sump.

 

[Razor]

Ok, so I think this is what I'm doing.

There are currently four holes drilled in the bottom of my two overflows, 2 in each. One in each overflow will be used as a drain for the main sump, one going directly to the sump and one going to the refugium, which spills into the sump. The second hole in the left will be used as a return from the main pump, as to not have to go over the back with all the returns. The second hole on the right will be used for the closed loop, figuring is I need more flow to the closed loop I can always utilize the hole in the left (currently a return).

The main drains will be flowing to the sump and refugium, through the skimmer and then the main return will be split between the tank and the chiller.

The closed loop will be sent through an OM Squirt, I decided to spend the money and do it right, which will be split into 4 returns. 2 of the returns will be under the sand and cover the current dead spots in the tank (1 return for the left half and 1 for the right). The other two returns will be used to provide flow from the top of the tank and I may install the OM Revolutions for some of the rear/top returns to change the flow even more. Lastly, I'm going to tee off the return line, just prior to the OM Squirt, in case there is too much flow going through the returns and I need to divert some of the pressure somewhere else.

A long post, but does that seem right?

 

[Anonymous]

Unless you are going to pull from both overflows for the CL don't use them. You are going to have a hard time balancing what goes to the chiller and what gets returned. Not to mention the loss on return flow to the tank with what gets diverted to the chiller.

 

[Razor]

ok, so I'll be pulling from both overflows for the CL.

As for the chiller, how do you recommend that I plumb it? I'd prefer not to have to use a third pump.

 

[Anonymous]

You can put it after either pump you are planning on using.

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