New Turf Results

[trido]

The brass fitting doubles as a source of essential elements, rendering reactors and 2-part additives completely obsolete, as well.

Your killing me with laughter.....
You know, the mods on another site I frequent moved the thread with this exact title into the DIY forum where they felt it more rightly belonged. It doesnt seem to cause nearly as much enxiety and controversy there.....

 

[clekchau1]

Im going to change the tone of my replied so I dont hurt cheks feelings. So basically your research shows that Turf scrubbers are an easy way to remove inorganic compound and skimmers remove organic compounds. But the main drawback is yellowing cause by ruptured cells...which are in fact organic compounds. Wouldnt a skimmer be useful in removing those ruptured organic compounds? Im curious now. What exactly is the water chemistry like in your tank. If your not doing water changes with RODI this would help explain why your having to remove so much inorganics. I say this only because those that use rodi makeup water and have low bioloads might not even have algae grow on their screens due to the lack of nutrients to feed the algae. Basically like I said earlier the scrubber is doing the same thing as caulerpa in a refugium, your method just makes it portable. Have you got any research that turf as a species is more effective at removing inorganics than caulerpa? Im not being sarcastic im genuinely curious. :wink:

i'm still curious as to why you posted a terrible ats filtered tank and failed to address the successful one even after i gave you all the parameters, maybe you are the one that got your feelings hurt :wink:

 

[chris&barb]

It doesnt seem to cause nearly as much enxiety and controversy there.....

I go there also and have read the replies/know the players. I think there is a lot of tongue biting going on

 

[blackcloudmedia]

Im going to change the tone of my replied so I dont hurt cheks feelings. So basically your research shows that Turf scrubbers are an easy way to remove inorganic compound and skimmers remove organic compounds. But the main drawback is yellowing cause by ruptured cells...which are in fact organic compounds. Wouldnt a skimmer be useful in removing those ruptured organic compounds? Im curious now. What exactly is the water chemistry like in your tank. If your not doing water changes with RODI this would help explain why your having to remove so much inorganics. I say this only because those that use rodi makeup water and have low bioloads might not even have algae grow on their screens due to the lack of nutrients to feed the algae. Basically like I said earlier the scrubber is doing the same thing as caulerpa in a refugium, your method just makes it portable. Have you got any research that turf as a species is more effective at removing inorganics than caulerpa? Im not being sarcastic im genuinely curious. :wink:

i'm still curious as to why you posted a terrible ats filtered tank and failed to address the successful one even after i gave you all the parameters, maybe you are the one that got your feelings hurt :wink:

Because I didnt feel like finding that tank in all the pages of comments and quoting it just to hear you get mad at peoples reactions to him rather than the actual questions at hand. It gets old when I say "skimmers arent useless" and you counter with...."dont be mean to him"

 

[clekchau1]

Im going to change the tone of my replied so I dont hurt cheks feelings. So basically your research shows that Turf scrubbers are an easy way to remove inorganic compound and skimmers remove organic compounds. But the main drawback is yellowing cause by ruptured cells...which are in fact organic compounds. Wouldnt a skimmer be useful in removing those ruptured organic compounds? Im curious now. What exactly is the water chemistry like in your tank. If your not doing water changes with RODI this would help explain why your having to remove so much inorganics. I say this only because those that use rodi makeup water and have low bioloads might not even have algae grow on their screens due to the lack of nutrients to feed the algae. Basically like I said earlier the scrubber is doing the same thing as caulerpa in a refugium, your method just makes it portable. Have you got any research that turf as a species is more effective at removing inorganics than caulerpa? Im not being sarcastic im genuinely curious. :wink:

i'm still curious as to why you posted a terrible ats filtered tank and failed to address the successful one even after i gave you all the parameters, maybe you are the one that got your feelings hurt :wink:

Because I didnt feel like finding that tank in all the pages of comments and quoting it just to hear you get mad at peoples reactions to him rather than the actual questions at hand. It gets old when I say "skimmers arent useless" and you counter with...."dont be mean to him"

so you ask a question, get an answer and completely ignore it and fail to post his great looking tank while posting bad examples of ats ran tanks? gotcha, i knew you were trolling just confirmed it

 

[blackcloudmedia]

Your one to talk. The only reason you joined this website is to ***** to everyone. You have nothing to provide other than blindly defending SM. He doesnt have to defend himself because your here to save the day. Woot! You clearly have no interest in being a part of this forum since all 32 of your posts are on this one thread. Dont tell me Im the one trolling. And Im sorry that I forgot to post a picture of the ONE and ONLY pretty ATS tank you seem to be defending. Do a quick google image on ATS tanks....you wont find much thats for sure.

 

[clekchau1]

Your one to talk. The only reason you joined this website is to ***** to everyone. You have nothing to provide other than blindly defending SM. He doesnt have to defend himself because your here to save the day. Woot! You clearly have no interest in being a part of this forum since all 32 of your posts are on this one thread. Dont tell me Im the one trolling. And Im sorry that I forgot to post a picture of the ONE and ONLY pretty ATS tank you seem to be defending. Do a quick google image on ATS tanks....you wont find much thats for sure.

i joined rc well before sm, i don't agree with his skimmer claims nor do i run an ats, but the subject is not about you or i, it's about using an ats as a filter.

so back to my original question, what do you think about his tank, equipment and maintenance schedule? his tank looks great, his fish are big and healthy even overstocking the 180, his corals grew like crazy even sps, and he did all this with just an ats and carbon as a filter. why wouldn't an ats work over a skimmer? i personally have one of the best skimmers made in my opinion and never had luck with a refugium much less an ats so i can't say i'm an advocate, however the subject does intrique me, thats why i'm posting in this thread, not to blindly defend sm.

 

[Anonymous]

Both of you guys need to drop this now. The petty bickering is making you both look bad.

 

[Ben1]

It will replace (or keep you from needing) a skimmer, refugium, phosphate removers, nitrate removers, carbon, filtersocks, and possibly even waterchanges.

FWIW, those were SM's words. So techniquely, we need tanks using NOTHING but ats, not even carbon as examples.

I tried to help here not cause more drama. I just didnt like these bold claims, if SM had posted this as a simple add on DIY filter idea to be used along with different methods of filtration this wouldnt have gone this far.

This thread has gotten to a point I dont think I will gain anything by reading or be able to contribute any further so adios...

 

[blackcloudmedia]

I take my leave

 

[clekchau1]

Both of you guys need to drop this now. The petty bickering is making you both look bad.

hi, my last post was pretty rational and mature in response even after having to endure flames and accusations by blackcloudmedia, his only response back was 'i take my leave' :lol:

all i wanted to do was disuss the ins and outs of an ats based reef tank, not argue or flame anyone, sorry

 

[ZooKeeper1]

Scrubbers, however, do. Instead of viewing scrubbers as a make-at-home rig that stops people from buying skimmers, manufacturers should instead view scrubbers as a piece of aquarium equipment they can manufacture which includes acrylic, plastic, lights, pumps, timers, fans and complex parts, all woven together.

That is your view. The fact that you think people are actually paid by skimmer companies to post anti turf statements, IMO, makes you certifiably insane ! There is no conspiracy here. LMAO

 

[Ben1]

manufacturers should instead view scrubbers as a piece of aquarium equipment they can manufacture

Not that I am posting in THIS thread again :roll: but just had to point out you are wrong again....as was pointed out, anyone making these in any substancial amount will here from the man with the patent. Adey United States Patent 4333263

 

[Anonymous]

santa wrote:

Manufacturers of lighting currently make an expensive product that has bulbs, ballasts, and frames. Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit.

like my sunpod ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit.

Scrubbers, however, do.

really? my skimmer must be missing parts, then-better let red sea know their berlins are incomplete :lol:

your scrubber has a built in pump that's an integral part of the scrubber's construction/frame/material itself? i've seen no such thing in any of your pictures :lol:

if a manufacturer of a device that uses a pump has a pump connected to it and supplied w/a device, that means it's under the category of"Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit. " ? :lol: :roll:


you are incapable of saying anything truthful, correct, or accurate about anything you've posted -were you diagnosed as a pathological liar as a young child ?

 

[ZooKeeper1]

Manufacturers of skimmers currently make an expensive product that has pumps and acrylic/plastic parts. Manufacturers of lighting currently make an expensive product that has bulbs, ballasts, and frames. Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit.

There are good reasons not to be pumping water through the lighting system.

When someone comes up with a new product, one of the first things done is a market analasis to find out if the product will sell. If it will, then it is worth the investment to manufacture and market said product. When there is no market, there is no product. It's that simple.

Acrylic products are expensive, and so are lights. You started with a simple DIY project and said it was cheap and easy to build for beginners. Now you want to turn that into an expensive product, that most beginners wouldn't want to spend the money on. ???

 

[Ben1]

Then I apologize SM, I see the original patent http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... ber%22&OS="Algal+Turf+Scrubber"&RS="Algal+Turf+Scrubber" was from 1982 and lasting 20years. I have heard, and read anyone attemping to manufactor these had Adey all over them.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think it matters anyways. The market for a product like this simply does not exist and there are no famous tanks using a scrubber at the moment to spur one. In addition, you saw the new Smithsonian tank, right? No turf.

 

[Anonymous]

When someone comes up with a new product, one of the first things done is a market analasis to find out if the product will sell. If it will, then it is worth the investment to manufacture and market said product. When there is no market, there is no product. It's that simple.

santa has no clue as to what's involved in creating prototypes, molds, entire assembly lines etc., nor the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars such things cost to actually do-and i'm referring to things that actually WORK :wink:

 

[blackcloudmedia]

My buddys a patent law major in college. Ill have to ask him how difficult it is to apply. But like I say from thread one ( the one that got blocked) SM is in this for money.

 

[clekchau1]

hey sm it seems someone else is trying an ats incorportating your technique into a bigger design and indicated he hopes to be skimmerless, he even references your build threads on reef central and marine depot forums, in fact he got no criticism like you have been getting here. i wonder if he would get flamed on reefs.org like you do from all the 'experts' ?

it is an algae turf scrubber. the idea is that algae will export PO4 and nitrates. the middle is filled with Chaetomorpha.

there is a lone pipe fish living in the rock work in the tank.

here is a bit of the algae that i will try to cultivate. it is growing out of the water in the outside tank in the splash zone.

here it is in action-


miwoodar, not only did bruce davidson run an ats skimmerless for years, apparently eric borneman has had very successful sps reef tanks with no skimmers and little or no water changes, and heavy feeding using an ats. i'm sure there are more out there.