The price of yellow tangs may be going up

[Len]

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session20 ... B3225_.htm

Very interesting new congressional bill.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm happy to see this actually.

Coincidently, I often use the Yellow Tang in my analogy of how certain fish are only desired because they are rare or expensive in the trade, (Clarion Angel) and that if the Yellow Tang was hard to acquire and cost $400, everyone would want one.

I mean really, is there any better looking or more appropriate aquarium fish? Because of it's availability and reasonable price, it's underrated.

Looks like that might change.

Me, I always thought it was one of the best looking fish out there.

 

[Anonymous]

When I went snorkeling in Maui at the beginning of this year I didn't see a single Yellow Tang, saw plenty of other tangs, Naso, Unicorn, Kole, etc. But not one, that was until I went to Molikini crater, which supposedly is a marine sanctuary then I saw a couple. Even the locals that give out advice to tourists like myself said that yellow tangs have not been seen in a long time.

Sounds like a good bill though! Forget the price, what kind of price is it if we make particular fish numbers drop this low just because they're cheap.

 

[FifeReef]

The place to see Yellow Tangs in mass (and where I was told most are collected in Hawaii) is the Kona Coast on the big Island of Hawaii. Stayed there a couple of years ago and the snorkeling there was amazing at our resort. Many Morrish Idols as well. I doubt they are disappearing, but I'm glad to see some limits on them as well.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm happy to see this actually.

+1

 

[Anonymous]

The place to see Yellow Tangs in mass (and where I was told most are collected in Hawaii) is the Kona Coast on the big Island of Hawaii. Stayed there a couple of years ago and the snorkeling there was amazing at our resort. Many Morrish Idols as well. I doubt they are disappearing, but I'm glad to see some limits on them as well.

A couple years can put a huge impact, especially on a fish where there are very few regulations to catching. Granted I wasn't on the big island, but all the pamphlets of Maui diving showed schools of Yellow Tangs (most likely after the divers fed the water). I wouldn't be so doubtful about them disappearing.

 

[trido]

I was wondering if this was on here yet...

Just to play devils advocate. I thought Id post this quote from a hawaiian LFS owner.

The bill does not target just yellow tang......it will put a no take cap on all Hawaiian puffer fish species, all hawaiian Eel species, hawaiian cleaner wrasses,All boxfish,and All Potters Angelfish along with anyother targeted species....That means they will become illegal to collect and the ornamental fish trade will no longer have these types of fish because they are indigenous to Hawaii only!!! This will also put regulation on Importing Christmas Island and Marshall Island fish...so all your Bartletts anthias, golden Rhoimboids, flame angels,lemon peel angels, and lets not forget Black Tangs because Christmas Island is the only part of the world that has Black Tangs....so the bill is not to regulate just YT...it is targeting a lot of fish in the aquarium trade

Here is the bill being proposed

Report Title:
Fishing; Ornamental Fish; Bag Limits; No Take Category; Appropriation
Description:
Imposes bag limits on certain ornamental fish; prohibits catching of certain ornamental fish; appropriation
THE SENATE
S.B. NO.3225
TWENTY-FOURTH LEGISLATURE, 2008
STATE OF HAWAII
A BILL FOR AN ACT RELATING TO FISHING.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII:

SECTION 1.* Chapter 188, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:

"§188-* **Ornamental fish; bag limit; prohibition; yellow tang stock assessment.* (a)* There shall be a combined bag limit of twenty fish per person per day of ornamental fish, including but not limited to, yellow tang, flame angels, and butterfly; provided that the combined bag limit may include a maximum of only five yellow tang.* No person shall catch, net, or trap more than the bag limit.* The department of land and natural resources shall formulate an annual stock assessment of the yellow tang, beginning September 1, 2008, based upon data existing as of that date to provide an estimated inventory for preservation purposes; provided that the assessment shall be made publicly available.

* (b)* No person shall catch, net, or trap certain ornamental fish in a no-take category, including but not limited to, all puffer fish, all box fish, potter's angel, cleaner wrasse, all coralvores, and all eels.

(c)* For purposes of this section, the term "ornamental fish" means salt water fish, usually found in or around reefs, that are commonly kept in aquariums.
(d)* The department of land and natural resources shall adopt rules pursuant to chapter 91 for purposes of this section, including adding other types of ornamental fish."
SECTION 2. *There is appropriated out of the general revenues of the State of Hawaii the sum of $100,000 or so much thereof as may be necessary for fiscal year 2008-2009 for the yellow tang fish stock assessment as provided in section 1 of this Act.

**** The sum appropriated shall be expended by the department of land and natural resources for the purposes of this Act.

SECTION 3.* New statutory material is underscored.

SECTION 4.* This Act shall take effect upon its approval; provided that section 2 shall take effect on July 1, 2008.


Basicly IMO they can add any new species they want at any given time in the future. Im all for regulation and saving the oceans fish but maybe this particluar bill is a little too vague for the sake of alot of peoples livelihood.
Also, didnt one of our recent presidents create huge reef preserves in the hawaiian islands.
Like I said. Devils advocate.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't get that LFS owners comments, how can some Hawaiian bill put limits on what comes from other islands not Hawaiian?

Also I seem to recall something about hawaiian cleaner wrasses having abysmally low survival rates, so I'm ok with that.

I'll take the other side of the coin, and say "peoples livelihood" sometimes needs to change and adapt to changing local conditions. Same thing with lumberjacks, hey sometimes we need to stop cutting certain trees down in certain areas, and T.S. if it affects you.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't get that LFS owners comments, how can some Hawaiian bill put limits on what comes from other islands not Hawaiian?

Also I seem to recall something about hawaiian cleaner wrasses having abysmally low survival rates, so I'm ok with that.

I'll take the other side of the coin, and say "peoples livelihood" sometimes needs to change and adapt to changing local conditions. Same thing with lumberjacks, hey sometimes we need to stop cutting certain trees down in certain areas, and T.S. if it affects you.

+1

The existence and well being of these organisms is vastly more important then whether or not we'll be able to stick them in a glass box.

I love this hobby, but steps need to be taken to mitigate damage that's being done on multiple levels.

 

[Anonymous]

I think all the animals in the hobby should cost much more than they do now.

 

[Anonymous]

This is a special-interest bill that was written by Robert Wintner, the owner of a local snorkel tour operator. He knows nothing about the aquarium fishery in Hawaii, and the proposals in this bill have no scientific data to back them up. No scientists, state fishery authorities, or fishermen have been consulted. Essentially, this whole thing is a publicity stunt to draw attention to his business; he's been using us as a scapegoat for a long time while championing himself as a defender of the environment.

You can read what Mr. Wintner (aka Snorkel Bob) thinks of aquarists in this thread, where he puts aquarium hobbyists in the same category of morality as pedophiles:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=113487

You should be aware that almost none of the claims he makes in that letter are true - we do not collect nearly as many fish as he claims, nor have we extirminated flame angels in Hawaii. The rest of his lies should be obvious to anybody familiar with the hobby.

Fortunately for us, the fact that this bill has no scientific merit means that it's unlikely that it will be passed. As several people have mentioned, the state has been monitoring the fishery for ten years, and has good data to prove that it is not declining. Fishing is a deeply ingrained part of Hawaiian culture, and the notion that its regulation can be legislated by any private citizen with an agenda is deeply disturbing. However, Mr. Wintner is certain to be very active in the support of his bill and we need to be able to respond in kind.

Anybody who believes in protecting the ocean, enjoying aquariums, and the basic principles of good government needs to oppose this bill. Most collectors, myself included, would welcome meaningful legislation that helps protect the fish upon which we depend for a living. However, regulation of our industry needs to be done by people who know what they're doing, rather than attention seekers who are willing to destroy the careers of honest, hard working people to serve their own interests.

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 8&start=20

 

[Ben1]

My sister moved to Hawaii last year, the big island. SInce we are both divers I cant wait to go see her. She snorkels every weekend and was telling me that she sees tons of yellow tangs all the time. She was at a spot that was supposed to be the best snorkeling around and she said although there was tons of fish there was no coral. She was telling em that although before you went into the park you had to watch a video going to over things like dont stand on the reef, then when she got out there she looked around and the there was over a dozen tourist standing on the reef :roll:

A few weeks ago a friend took her to a different spot away from all the tourist spots and she told me there was dense coral coverage in that area. Of course I wanted to know details on the corals she was seeing and she couldnt tell me :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Snorkel Bob bill? Co-signed by Boss Frog too?

Yeah that's kind of sketchy, I have no way to know how much the marine ornamental trade compares to the tourism trade, but I'm guessing tourism fetches quite a few more dollars than fish do. Not to mention as Ben mentioned you see tourists with Snorkel Bob (or other chain) snorkel gear, and they don't seem to know what the hell to do about the reef. Who knows maybe my aquarium has given me the knowledge so I don't stand on reefs and the like, so considering the small amount of hawaiian fish I've ever purchased (a Kole, Yellow Tang (maybe), and Flame Angel) that small price helped saved the reef from my ignorance

 

[trido]

Ok, its been a day. Ill chime back in. I never said I agree with any of the things I posted. I was just giving food for thought. Apparently to the wrong crowd.

I think the logger analogy is a good one. At least for me because I grew up in a logging town. As a child in grade school we were given tours of the mill for field trips in third grade. As the mill closed down due to forestry cutbacks and regulations, the town changed and the truckers, tree fallers, knot bumpers, choker setters either moved or got different jobs. No one starved to death. My stepdad for instance, became a cook. We adapted to the changing times. The town dynamics have changed but people are still there doing well including my mom.
Im sure the same will hold true with the fish collectors of Hawaii.
I agree with everyone who has posted above on so many levels. If they pose collection regulations on our hobby we will adapt. It will likely be a good thing to see fewer yellow tangs in the LFS. Maybe they should be closer to a hundred dollars.

I seen several comments (here and elsewhere) regarding the abundance of fish on the Hawaiian reefs. When I worked in Alaska back in the 90s. What I thought was alot of fish (so many, you felt like you could walk across thier backs in the rivers and streams) was only a small percentage of what the healthy fish population should have been. Fish and game tries to regulate and be fair to the fishermen but its only their guess as to what the really needs to be done to keep a sustainable population of each species. This bill should help regulate the Hawaiian fishery in much the same way. As we all know though. Usually, by the time the government steps in matters are usually pretty grave.
Im sure our hobby will survive this. WE will just have to adapt to the changes or get out of it. With Aquacultered and maricultered corals, and more breeders stepping into the picture I'm sure of it. In ten years we may simply have only captive bread clowns to add to our tanks but I tend to doubt it.

I love my fish thanks and always have. Id simply go back to FW if I cant afford to keep up. You wont see me taking any actions to stop this bill from going through.

 

[reefknack]

someone mentioned there is no science, and becuase of this the bill will not pass. there seems to be plenty of science readily available from any number of search engines:

Effects of Aquarium Collectors on Coral Reef Fishes in Kona, Hawaii, Tissot et. al.

this article generally concludes that collecting off the Kona Coast depletes the collected species and damages the reefs.

 

[Anonymous]

Ugh, can you stay to one thread?

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=117104

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=116948

 

[Hobbyist]

Actually, all Tissot discovered was that at one particular time the densities in the collection areas were lower than no collection areas. I certainly agree that this statistic is due to collection.

Hard to say though really if densities were increasing in no take areas or falling in take areas or if the density in either areas was staying the same.

If you really want to get educated there are more recent studies indicating increasing numbers.

 

[Anonymous]

I think all the animals in the hobby should cost much more than they do now.

Agreed.

I was just inanely informed by someone after not having looked at this thread in a week that I'd somehow been buried under paper...whatever that means....

Glad to see Gresham chimed in.

 

[rbursek]

Tyey are a "bully" fish in are tanks any way!!!!!!!!