Speechless: www.majesticreefs.com

[Len]

http://www.majesticreefs.com/Majesticre ... lcome.html

Wow. Just wow. 8O Sorry bfessler but I'm just stunned by the "information" on that website.

 

[Anonymous]

Can't say I've even heard of the "Hiatt system" however that being said, no problems with my tank the way I run it now, no sense trying to do something to change that Although I have contemplated running ozone just for kicks and giggles.

 

[Anonymous]

Just spent 10 minutes there- sorry-rephrase... wasted 10 minutes there...... :roll:
Short cuts only work for a while. There is no substitute for science and historically successful experience.

 

[bfessler]

I have to agree with your opinion o Majesticreefs.com. I spoke with Richard about 6 months ago and told him if he wanted anyone to take him seriously he needed to turn down his rhetoric and fix the spelling and grammar on the site. I think he improved the spelling errors but the grammar and rhetoric are still rampant. Richard was helpful in setting up my Nano but I think he plays the persecution card way too much. I have stopped referring people to his site because it does more harm than good.

Stan and Debbie Hunter at About.Com more reasonably reflect my view of the Hiatt System. Here is an article recently published on About.com regarding nitrate removal using the RN Bacteria.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/nitratecontrol/a/aalongtermnitratereeduction.htm

My experience with the product does reflect that the product will eliminate nitrates and that you don't have to use nearly the quantities suggested by the official Hiatt Site. After 6 months of using the product my nitrates are undetectable and I can't recall phosphates ever being over .5ppm.

 

[Sea Turtle]

can you really cycle a tank in 5 hours. Come on... :?

 

[bfessler]

When I started my tank 6 months ago I set it up with Ceramic Reef Rock, Carib Sea Aragonite Sand neither of which were live at the time. I added the RN Bacteria, went to the LFS and purchased some starter fish and within 2 hours of filling the tank had my fish in it. This was my first experience with the product so I didn't test it to its limits by fully stocking the tank but within a week I had 4 Green Cromis and 2 medium size clown fish as well as a large hammer coral in the tank. If you want to see how the tank has progressed you can view the build thread http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic127995.html

Does it completely cycle the tank in 5 hours. Depends on your definition of cycle. If your asking if the tank will complete the nitrogen cycle then Yes. If you are asking if the tank will be fully capable of supporting the diverse livestock in a reef system then no. The tank still has to mature and build the population of pods and micro fauna before it will support corals. I added Garf Grunge to help with this. Bottom Line, If you want to set up a Saltwater Tank and add fish and inverts the same day it is possible using the Hiatt System. I have set up 4 tanks now with the same results. I don't think everyone should start using the system but it is a viable option.

 

[Len]

I have to agree with your opinion o Majesticreefs.com. I spoke with Richard about 6 months ago and told him if he wanted anyone to take him seriously he needed to turn down his rhetoric and fix the spelling and grammar on the site. I think he improved the spelling errors but the grammar and rhetoric are still rampant. Richard was helpful in setting up my Nano but I think he plays the persecution card way too much. I have stopped referring people to his site because it does more harm than good.

Stan and Debbie Hunter at About.Com more reasonably reflect my view of the Hiatt System. Here is an article recently published on About.com regarding nitrate removal using the RN Bacteria.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/nitratecontrol/a/aalongtermnitratereeduction.htm

My experience with the product does reflect that the product will eliminate nitrates and that you don't have to use nearly the quantities suggested by the official Hiatt Site. After 6 months of using the product my nitrates are undetectable and I can't recall phosphates ever being over .5ppm.

I don't care so much about the rhetoric as the information (or rather misinformation) and logic (or rather logical fallacies).

 

[Len]

When I started my tank 6 months ago I set it up with Ceramic Reef Rock, Carib Sea Aragonite Sand neither of which were live at the time. I added the RN Bacteria, went to the LFS and purchased some starter fish and within 2 hours of filling the tank had my fish in it. This was my first experience with the product so I didn't test it to its limits by fully stocking the tank but within a week I had 4 Green Cromis and 2 medium size clown fish as well as a large hammer coral in the tank. If you want to see how the tank has progressed you can view the build thread http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic127995.html

Does it completely cycle the tank in 5 hours. Depends on your definition of cycle. If your asking if the tank will complete the nitrogen cycle then Yes. If you are asking if the tank will be fully capable of supporting the diverse livestock in a reef system then no. The tank still has to mature and build the population of pods and micro fauna before it will support corals. I added Garf Grunge to help with this. Bottom Line, If you want to set up a Saltwater Tank and add fish and inverts the same day it is possible using the Hiatt System. I have set up 4 tanks now with the same results. I don't think everyone should start using the system but it is a viable option.

How did you ascertain the nitrogen cycle was established?

 

[Anonymous]

When I started my tank 6 months ago I set it up with Ceramic Reef Rock, Carib Sea Aragonite Sand neither of which were live at the time. I added the RN Bacteria, went to the LFS and purchased some starter fish and within 2 hours of filling the tank had my fish in it. This was my first experience with the product so I didn't test it to its limits by fully stocking the tank but within a week I had 4 Green Cromis and 2 medium size clown fish as well as a large hammer coral in the tank. If you want to see how the tank has progressed you can view the build thread http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic127995.html

Does it completely cycle the tank in 5 hours. Depends on your definition of cycle. If your asking if the tank will complete the nitrogen cycle then Yes. If you are asking if the tank will be fully capable of supporting the diverse livestock in a reef system then no. The tank still has to mature and build the population of pods and micro fauna before it will support corals. I added Garf Grunge to help with this. Bottom Line, If you want to set up a Saltwater Tank and add fish and inverts the same day it is possible using the Hiatt System. I have set up 4 tanks now with the same results. I don't think everyone should start using the system but it is a viable option.

How did you ascertain the nitrogen cycle was established?

There is a logical flaw there I wasn't wanting to point out

 

[bfessler]

Daily tests for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Since the values of these tests all remain at 0 these nutrients are being processed or there would be a buildup in the tank. Ammonia is processed by the RN Bacteria differently than normal bacteria in the sand bed and LR. The bacteria require a carbon bed to grow and different strains of bacteria process all 3 nutrients at once. They grow very fast adapting to the amount of nutrients needing to be processed. I am not a scientist so I'm not sure how to describe the process but Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate all remain at trace levels or undetectable from the start.

 

[Len]

Daily tests for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Since the values of these tests all remain at 0 these nutrients are being processed or there would be a buildup in the tank. Ammonia is processed by the RN Bacteria differently than normal bacteria in the sand bed and LR. The bacteria require a carbon bed to grow and different strains of bacteria process all 3 nutrients at once. They grow very fast adapting to the amount of nutrients needing to be processed. I am not a scientist so I'm not sure how to describe the process but Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate all remain at trace levels or undetectable from the start.

RN Bacteria could be a chemical agent that binds NH4, NO2, and NO3 ... or interfere with its testing. It might not have cycled anything at all, but rather impeded cycling. It could be many things; no offense, but to conclude it cycled your tank is specious conjecture.

Its patent states it contains bacillus bacteria. Bacillus are anaerobes, yet RN bacteria claims to work aerobically. Why would the bacteria require a carbon bed to grow? The bacteria is marketed as being able to eat ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, potash, fish oils, sludge (whatever that is), and algae itself. What strains of bacteria are we talking about?

 

[bfessler]

I am pretty new to the hobby and don't have a scientific background so I can't really speak to the science behind the product. All I can speak to is that after setting up 4 tanks between 10 gallons and 55 gallons I have observed the same results. I can add fish immediately and in a very short time I can begin adding corals. I have been able to grow SPS, LPS, and Softies all without the need for a skimmer or filtration other than that used to support the Hiatt System.

I have also learned that some of the sites promoting the Hiatt system do make outlandish claims which is why I am distancing myself from them, (a lesson I had to learn from experience that I lacked when getting started.) I have stated elsewhere that I believe most of the problems people have with the Hiatt System are generated by the people promoting it including Bill Hiatt.

If you strip it down to the basics of will it allow for the addition livestock the first day and will the system allow one to grow any type of coral desired then it does work.

 

[Anonymous]

That site = Garfin' 2 - Electric Boogaloo

Just sayin'.

 

[Anonymous]

What turns me off most is they keep referring to it as a cycle while saying it isn't a cycle.

 

[Anonymous]

RN Bacteria could be a chemical agent that binds NH4, NO2, and NO3 ... or interfere with its testing. It might not have cycled anything at all, but rather impeded cycling. It could be many things; no offense, but to conclude it cycled your tank is specious conjecture.

Its patent states it contains bacillus bacteria. Bacillus are anaerobes, yet RN bacteria claims to work aerobically. Why would the bacteria require a carbon bed to grow? The bacteria is marketed as being able to eat ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, potash, fish oils, sludge (whatever that is), and algae itself. What strains of bacteria are we talking about?

All Bacillus are anaerobes? Are you certain about that?
http://www.microbiologybytes.com/video/Bacillus.html

In microbiology, the term bacillus means any rod-shaped microbe (and coccus means a spherical microbe). However, Bacillus (written with a capital letter and italicized) refers to a specific genus of bacteria. The family Bacillaceae are all Gram-positive, rod-shaped bacteria which form endospores, with two main divisions:

* the anaerobic spore-forming bacteria of the genus Clostridium
* the aerobic or facultatively anaerobic spore-forming bacteria of the genus Bacillus

Characteristically, Bacillus cultures are Gram-positive when young, but may become Gram-negative as they age. Bacillus species are aerobic, sporulating, rod-shaped bacteria which are ubiquitous in nature. This is a large genus with many members. Here are just a few examples:

And scrolling down I find this...

Bacillus halodenitrificans

B. halodenitrificans is a facultatively anaerobic halotolerant (salt-tolerant) denitrifier - i.e. it can obtain energy by reducing nitrate to nitrogen. A broad range of bacteria can carry out this process, but most denitrifying bacteria are Gram-negative, so B. halodenitrificans is somewhat unusual in this respect. Typical of most Bacillus species grown in liquid culture, the cells shown in this video are highly motile (other examples of bacterial motility are shown here). Paired cells in the video are undergoing cell division by binary fission but have not yet completely separated. Gram-stained cells: 1 µm wide, 5-10 µm long:

 

[Anonymous]

What turns me off most is they keep referring to it as a cycle while saying it isn't a cycle.

It's a cycle if you have to keep adding the bacteria... drive to store, buy bacteria, add bacteria, drive to store, buy bacteria, add bacteria

 

[bfessler]

What turns me off most is they keep referring to it as a cycle while saying it isn't a cycle.

I get lost in all the technical descriptions and terminology. In traditional cycle its a nice circle ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, but then you need a DSB, Water Change or other De-nitrification process to rid the water column of nitrates.

With the Hiatt system, from what I have read and I'm not familiar with the particular strains of bacteria that are being used, the various strains of bacteria work on all nutrients at the same time with the end result being free nitrogen. In Hiatts video (posted my the infamous Majestic Reefs on Utube), he describes the process as parallel lines rather than a cycle and that one strain works on Ammonia and Nitrate at the same time and another works on Nitrite and Nitrate and so on. So its not a traditional cycle in the sense that nutrients go through a neat cyclical process.

In the hobby we refer to a tank being cycled when the nitrogen cycle is complete. Thats why the Hiatt system states that the tank is cycled in 24 hours. It simply means that nutrients are being processed completely back to nitrogen. Perhaps they should come up with different terminology but in both the traditional sence and the Hiatt process when the tank is ready to support livestock it is referred to as cycled.

Hope this makes some since out of the confusion of the process not being a cycle but referring to the tank as cycled. Probably clear as mud. :?

 

[Anonymous]

What turns me off most is they keep referring to it as a cycle while saying it isn't a cycle.

I get lost in all the technical descriptions and terminology. In traditional cycle its a nice circle ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, but then you need a DSB, Water Change or other De-nitrification process to rid the water column of nitrates.

With the Hiatt system, from what I have read and I'm not familiar with the particular strains of bacteria that are being used, the various strains of bacteria work on all nutrients at the same time with the end result being free nitrogen. In Hiatts video (posted my the infamous Majestic Reefs on Utube), he describes the process as parallel lines rather than a cycle and that one strain works on Ammonia and Nitrate at the same time and another works on Nitrite and Nitrate and so on. So its not a traditional cycle in the sense that nutrients go through a neat cyclical process.

In the hobby we refer to a tank being cycled when the nitrogen cycle is complete. Thats why the Hiatt system states that the tank is cycled in 24 hours. It simply means that nutrients are being processed completely back to nitrogen. Perhaps they should come up with different terminology but in both the traditional sence and the Hiatt process when the tank is ready to support livestock it is referred to as cycled.

Hope this makes some since out of the confusion of the process not being a cycle but referring to the tank as cycled. Probably clear as mud. :?

In the video, Snake seems to make a big deal that it isn't a cycle. IMO, he confuses the entire product more by calling it a cycle over and over again.

BTW, what did using the products for your tank cost?

 

[bfessler]

When I set up my frag tank it cost me about $50 including the RN Bacteria, TBPC, PH Adjustment Rock and shipping. The bacteria only needs to be added once and the Carbon is not replaced either so its really a one time expense.

 

[cindre2000]

I don't feel it is too 'amazing' a claim to be able to place livestock in a tank after only 5 or 24 hours. A co-worker and friend had fish and coral in his 28g biocube less than 24 hrs after putting in live sand and well cured live rock, no losses (lps, coral beauty, and I think chromis). But then again, I do not feel a tank has truly cycled till you get through all your algae phases.

I do worry however, that he is pushing a low stocking density 'naturalistic' system. And that he is teaching bad habits to beginners. The number one cause of failure in the hobby is when first time owners start out too fast with too little knowledge.