Need help with refugium

[ricky1066]

Ok I had originally bought a wet dry and at the advice of the guy at the lfs I was told to gut it and cut the top so I did With my luck the dam thing cracked right down the middle In the garbage it went.

I keep hearing my canister is not the best thing for my tank or any and I should get a refugium. First off I think what I had looked like a 20 gallon
But not sure My mistake was not asking the lfs gave me what he said was for my tank.

anyway I see at the stores they are like $200- $300 Rightnow it is way out of range I just spent $500 on lights today and some supplies.

Is there any local people who may have one they are selling or can tell me where they are cheaper I have heard the make your own thing Not for me Sorry No patience for that.

I started off not understanding the whole sump and still dont as I see water go into a sock and back up to a pump so how it filters is beyond me but I know they say to use a refugium/sump and it is better ????

here is what I have but not being used


Any help or advice is appreciated

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

By definition sump is not a filter unless you add things to it to make it into a filter. It's a convenient place to put all your non-natural looking hardware in one place, like heater, pump, skimmer.

The filter sock is a mechanical filter, kind of simple but yet useful ONLY if you clean it frequently. Unlike sponge, filter sock can hardly work as bio logical filter most of the time. When you add sand bed, live rocks, and macro algae, the sump now is also a refugium and it becomes a bio filter. Not everyone knows how to use this technology well though. Meaning many beginners will find them causing headaches too.
Check out my thread of this 6" turtle tank(turtle is known to be dirty) which use SOLELY a refugium as bio filter and I have never need to change water.
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/nudibar/36056-tmnt-trade.html
post #4
You can see thru the bottom of the tank, that's a refugium in fresh water application with a Maxjet 900

There are more filtration methods such as the highly praised skimmers(in fact I found it quite ingenious-especially the automation of collecting the dirt and dump out of the system), chemical filter as phosphate reactor and each holds their places if you know how to use them right. All these, you can all incorporated into the sump.

 

[ricky1066]

anyone

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

it look there is a high chance of flooding if you decided to use the one in the pic as your sump. How is your drain made?

I might have an used acrylics sump/refugium. LYK later

 

[autoponicz]

a sump is a good place to dose 2-part additives ...also add water volume....and you can add a automatic top off system to keep your salinity stable....(sump needs to be baffled properly)....a refugium is optional.....
what size tank are you running.....tell us alot about your system

 

[midtownman]

i think if wtb buy a new fuge you better off going to the want to buy section so no one gets thown off with the title you'll get some quick responses i know i did

 

[ricky1066]

I have a 75 gallon tank 75 pounds live rock looking very nice full of coraline algae.60 pds of live sand (caribe) been running about 3 months.

I had went out and bought the wet dry sytem that you see in the photo paid $179 for it. had bio balls and all the usual since I was and still am new advice was given to rip out the sponge and bioball asap and put in a sock and that would be fine.

Between the noise and the worry of flooding I could not stand it I have ahob overflow (sounds like toilet flushing) I made some mods and put on ball valves had it running ok but I never understood and still dont understand how water going down to one smaller tank and back up to the same tank is considerd cleaning?
So again upon my own I decieded to go back tomy fluval 405 .canister

Ilive in an apartment on the 3rd floor so flooding would be major issue. with a canister I feel safe.
Then I was told as I thought the sump is doing nothing the way it was (taking to much advice as a newbie) was really screwing me up.

So after throwing out bio balls (told they hold nitrates But all the stores use them) and cutting the top off the sump tomake a basic tank with a hole in the side and a piece of plastic in the middle I had a piece of garbage so it now sits behind my tank.

I have a bermuda rogue hob skimmer which is supposed to be one of the best it is still skimming wet but it is new But It is big .

Ordered my nova extreme t5 6 bulb light son line today so I can start looking at soft coral.

I have two # 3 powerheads and one#4 on the way with a phosban reactor which I probably could have run through my canister> Not sure.

I think alot of the problem is I try to take every ones advice instead of just trying one thing for a while.

I was told yesterday that using the fluval canister might be a problem with the corals. then I was told to try the eheim canister or a sump/refugium
But as I see them in the store all over $200
I know it is a expensive habit and I have already started off with over $2500 in the last twomonths

So is a sump/refugium really needed or can you use a canister ?

my tank Has in it now
1 clown.1 flame angel.3 chromis.2 dart fish,3 cardinals , 1 royal gamma (tiny) 12 hermit crabs,1 cleaner shrimp.7 turbo smails,2 nass snails ,1 algae blenny

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

so let me try to guide you thru, step step again.
Let us get on the same page first and correct me if my assumption is wrong.
1)You are trying to keep soft coral
2)You have all general water test kits including phosphate and calcium testor(if not, please get them)
3)You are using RO/DI water(if not, please get an RO/DI water filter, one of the best investment)
4)You are not willing to change the hob overflow box to drilling your tank(this type of drain usually fail and could cause flood if the the sump is not properly designed)
5)You have not purchased an eheim canister(if so, don't)
6)You have a grounding probe in the system
7)You have Auto Top Off system in place

Now but to analyze your case,
Canister filter will hold dirt in the can, and thus over time it becomes a bio filter in addition to mechanical filter. However, this type of bio filter can only degrade organics down to nitrate. So when there is always dirt coming into the canister, the filter is now also a nitrate factory. Nitrate is considered bad in reef mainly because it support algae growth. So the answer here is most of us will tell you not to use the canister filter. If you see some of us using it, usually they are running just carbon in it. The most important thing is not the change of media but the way we use it. Canister filter to act as a mechanical and bio filter, one should not change clean the filter within 3 months. Running carbon in a canister would required frequent cleaning like twice a month or once a month so that no extra dirt is trap in the can.

A refuguim is optional if you already have a good skimmer, there are (I would say more-not everyone agrees though))advantages and disadvantages of having it.

A properly baffled sump is strongly advised! If you are so out of patient to DIY your sump, I get you a sump for you under $100 bucks and in 3 days.

As a reminder, a sump is not a filter but just a very convenient place to put all different kinds of filter there. When properly designed, it helps to control flooding during power outage and power off then on scenario. It give you safe and easier place to add additives, a hub of all water in and out including ATO, water change and such.

Feel free to ask questions, but first let us know your current setups more clearly so that we can answer your questions one by one in relations to particular setups.

 

[ricky1066]

Ok thanks for thehelp here we go
Number 1-3 yes #4 maybe But I was told you cannot drill the tank once is is up and running and mine isalready running if I would have known th eissue belive me it would have been done ,Ihave no idea what grounding probe is feel free to explain

And no auto top off

My biggest problem is room I have an apartment 3rd floor as I stated My tank is caddy corned next to my tv I squeeze and I mean squeeze behind it to get to my sump whe It was running.

I do nto have room at all to add another tank while this one is drilled or I would have I do nto have aqt tank ( i know)
I know about the canister as opiioons have varied So in your opinion should I just use the sump to run carbon But I do have two reactors coming I ordered .

i do value opinions and try to sort through them

what is wrong with the sump I have now if It is just to go up and down water.I tried a piece of chaeto in there and it keep geting sucked into the filter even using egg crates

corals I am debating on so yes I am looking into them

 

[ricky1066]

I have to go out now as my son is a basketball star at age 10 so we have 3 games today CYO I wil lcheck when I come back but thank you again

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

After reviewing your pics again and again, I found that your sump is not as bad as I thought originally. At first I think that your left baffle is almost as tall as the top of the conatiner leaving no room for backflow flooding control. Just for safety, you can test whether it will flood by turning off the return pump and see how much water will backflow into the sump. Check the U tube of the overflow box to see if there is still siphon. If yo are so unlucky that there is no siphon, turn on the power to see if this scenario will overflow your DT.

I have a found a used Pro clear 175 Mud refugium sump
27" x 9" x 16" if you are interested, lmk.

 

[ricky1066]

I think if you are familiar with the store sold wet/dry that is what IT was. It has a hole in the sided of it where the pvc went and a drawer on top yes the baffle in the middle goes up past the line where the hole is.
The problem I has was trying to adjust as you mentioned. If the overflow was too far up the water leaving the tank was slow so I had to almost fully submerge the ohob overflow?
100% if the siphon ever stopped the main tank would overflow nothing stopping that the water going in to the main tank would emppty the sump.

These were concerns of mine I looked into drilling the tank too late after I am stocked and ready to add some softies now.

As far as the sump/refugium If yo have a pic I would love to see it .
Not to sound dumb but I am new and not sure what I am supposed to put it in I assume miracle mud maybe some chaeto?

This is why I wanted a forum closer to home

Thanks

 

[ricky1066]

Ihave seen several on ebay all complete sets lights mud cover and skimmer
But was told no on reef central that they are no good?

Not sure why

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I will try to find you the pic.
Many people were against Miracle Mud because the description of the content is not clear. So many think it's gimmick for the price they are charging(it is very high.) Some people swear by big success with it and some say they do nothing more than sand. I have used them when I brought my very first USED setup, my personal findings are that plants grow faster in mud than sand but for the price they charge, I would rather go for sand. Many mud refugiums are VERY SMALL compared to the DIY refugiums, therefore effectiveness of it, drowns out real fast when the macro maxed out the container and it's operating impact is low due to small size. If you can trim 5 gallon of new algae from the refugium, you are dumping 5 gallon worth of nutrients from your water column. If you can only trim 5 cups of new algae a week, then you have a much less effective refugium. As I stated earlier refugium is a technology not easy to master, so whatever way you do(sand or mud, tumbling algae or not, grow light or regular,) mastering is the key. If one cannot master it, it is no good. If you cannot fine tune the skimmer-it is no good. I have trouble for a whole month in tuning my first skimmer. I have a client who cannot tuned (actually, the LFS that sold them to him cannot either) his two skimmers for more than 1 1/2 years until he switched to a Tunz double-the Tunz work right the way. HAHAHHA.

 

[ricky1066]

As I mentioned all of it is abit confusing as I am sure it was to everone when they first started

All the technical stuff is a bit hard to comprehend for a newbie Have you seen the ones on ebay
It is below I am still worried about a flood and again se bioballs in there BUT all the LFS have the same exact filter?with BIO balls
75 Gallon Aquarium Sump Refugium Wet Dry Filter Bio - eBay (item 350035379822 end time Mar-20-08 17:56:55 PDT)

 

[ricky1066]

I see you area vendor do you have a store?
I see Flushing I am not far from there

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I don't run a retail store.

I custom build tanks and design LED lightings.

Once a while, I will special order live stock for clients of mine to stock their tanks and will offer some specials along to the members here. There nothing to see in my workshop except I usually have 3 four kinds cured rocks to choose.

DIY is my hobby so if anyone is is into DIY, I usually contribute my experience.

Check out my website at AquaProBuilder.SUNSUN-USA.com
Oh, of course, check my MR reefer ratings too.