Figuring out what Return Pump I need - help!

[Marcellina]

Any suggestions what Return Pump I should look into getting for my in the works 100G tank with a 75G sump that is located in the basement?

I calculated the head pressure as being 13. I did this by measuring the distance from top of the top of the return pipe that is in the main tank in my living room to the bottom of the sump that is in my basement. Its 13 feet and I wasnt planning on making any angles in the return plumbing.

The whole system will be about 175G (main tank and sump) so I would need a return pump that is rated 1750GPH right? Should I look to getting a stronger one? I dont want one that is overkill, I just want it to return the water to the Main Tank and then get a couple of powerheads to move the water and add more flow to the tank.

Please correct me if I am mistaken in any of my calculations.

 

[fishman1069]

What type of overflows do you have? Like how big is the bulkheads and how much flow do you have draining outta the tank? You want to go at least 100 gph more than the overflow is rated at. You can always get a more powerful pump and choke it back with a ball valve

 

[Marcellina]

How do I measure the size of the bulkheads? Do I measure the inside of the hole?

The drain has a 1.5" hole on the bulkhead and the return bulkhead has 1.25" hole.

Researching a bit I think my flow will be approx 900GPH? Is that right?
My tank is drilled on the bottom left.

 

[jaa1456]

Sounds like you will need an external pump, I only know of one internal or submersable pump that will put out the flow you need. Look at Dr fosters and smiths site, I believe they have charts for all the pumps they sell.

 

[MIKE NY]

If you calculated your overflow at aprox 900 gph you would need a pump that pumps at least that much at the 13' needed to go back up to the tank....look at the flowcharts for the diferent pumps you want to use.

 

[Marcellina]

Do I really need to get an external pump?

To figure out how many GPH I need the pump to be I thought I had to multiply the total amount of water by at least 10 for a sand bottom reef tank (100 DT + 75 sump). Actually the sump wont be completely filled so it will be a little less than 175G total. So I thought I needed a pump that would circulate at least 1750 GPH at 10' feet? (**** Note I miscalculated my head pressure in my first post on this thread its actually almost 10' not 13)

I hadnt really looked to much into the brands and types of pumps but I was following another members thread on here and he is looking to get a Water Blaster pump and I found one that I thought might have worked for me, am I wrong?
http://www.aquacave.com/water-blaster-hy-7000-brcirculating-water-pump-3110.html
Specifications:

* HY7000W
* Watts: 88 watts
* 97% efficiency
* Max Flow=1,800gph
* Max Head= 12 ft


I thought something like this might have been ok bc I need at least 1750gph at 10'.

I wasnt even thinking that I might have to get an external pump. Now I am all sorts of confused!

 

[MIKE NY]

don't be confused...has nothing to with the volumn of water in your system....your just trying to match the amount of water,gph, from your overflow....for example I'm using a 1 1/2" pipe overflow too and it's about 1000-1200gph and I'm using a sequence dart for the return from the basement which is about 10'-12'....max on the pump is 3600gph at 0', but at 10' is only about 1000-1200 gph so it works out well...gotta look at flowcharts for the pumps to see what the gph is at 10' not the max gph.....

 

[dotc0m]

Not meant to hijack your thread so I'm hoping this is a question that can also serve the OP but isn't an external pump better for heating purposes? Also if you wanted to run it through a chiller and/or reactor and whatever else to consolidate pumps you might end up saving space? I'm thinking of going external as well and mine is only a 40g breeder that I might end up running through reactors and a chiller in the near future with the summer time approaching.

 

[masterswimmer]

I hadnt really looked to much into the brands and types of pumps but I was following another members thread on here and he is looking to get a Water Blaster pump and I found one that I thought might have worked for me, am I wrong?
http://www.aquacave.com/water-blaster-hy-7000-brcirculating-water-pump-3110.html
Specifications:

* HY7000W
* Watts: 88 watts
* 97% efficiency
* Max Flow=1,800gph
* Max Head= 12 ft


I thought something like this might have been ok bc I need at least 1750gph at 10'.

I wasnt even thinking that I might have to get an external pump. Now I am all sorts of confused!

Marcellina, you do seem to be a bit confused (no offense intended).
For instance, if you use the pump you listed above you would have a return rate of zero (yes, 0) gallons per hour. If you take note of the 'Max Head' you listed above it reads 12 ft. What that means is you will have a flow rate of 0gph at a height of anything above 12'.

From your basement to your tank it measures 13' of vertical lift. You still need to add to the head pressure rating, the amount of physical resistance the water must pass through. In other words, each fitting you have plumbed into your return adds approx. one additional foot of head pressure to your calculation. As an example see if you can follow this:

basement to tank = 13 feet
Pump flows through ball valve or true union ADD 1'
at the top of the plumbing you have a 90 deg elbow ADD 1'
flow through LocLine fittings ADD 1'
----------------------------------------------
Total Head Pressure equals 13 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 16 feet

At 16 feet of head pressure (also called back pressure) you would get approx. zero gph. You want to find a pump that will push about 600 gph at the point of discharge, AFTER the head pressure of 16 feet.

Many pump manufacturers use the term HH (High Head) in the name of their pump to designate it as a pump that can accommodate higher head or back pressure. The reverse of HH pumps are those that are called Flow Biased pumps (meaning they will push their rated flow at very low head pressure). There are some pumps that will push thousands of gph at 50', 60', 80', etc. Those are truly HH pumps.

What you need is considered a HH pump within our hobby. You'd like a pump to push 600-700 gph @ 16'-20' with a max head of probably 22'-24'.

If you have any other Q's, please feel free to shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to help,

Russ

 

[Marcellina]

Thanks Mike and Russ. You both shed some more light on the subject for me. Always learning, I am glad I asked! Hopefully other people who are too shy to ask will find this thread and learn too!

Russ you gave me alot of info to take in, let me grab some coffee and come back and read it again. Then I will look at some pumps and compare them. TomTooth suggested a Mag24 pump is that a HH pump? I will research after coffee!

 

[ming]

I wouldn't suggest a Mag24 simply because of the amount of electricity it uses, the flow is little when compared to the electricity IMO (efficiency)... although HH pumps will use more electricity in general, they can shoot far higher.
Your actual height is actually calculating from the surface of the water in the sump to the top of the water in your display.

A stronger version of the water blaster you have up there is the HY-10000 with a max head of 15.5'
http://www.aquacave.com/water-blaster-hy-10000-brcirculating-water-pump-3111.html

If you want real HH pumps, check out these
PanWorld 150PS for 1100gph up to 28'
PanWorld 200PS for 1750gph up to 39'

 

[reefs4life]

If you want an internal pump, aside from the water blast 10000 that ming was pointing out, you could try the Lifegard Quiet One 9000. I loved their pumps when I had my smaller set up. You can check out its specs here: http://www.lifegardaquatics.com/pdfs/q1aquariumDS.pdf (page 5)

 

[Marcellina]

MIng: Hmm the Panworld does look like it would be a good pump but I wasnt planning for an external pump. Maybe I should should be though, it seems heat will be a major issue with an submersible right?

Reefs4Life: I think I read on another site that the Lifeguard Quiet One is a wet dry? Does that mean it doesnt have to be completely submersed (like on a little stand half in and half out) therefore not heating the tank up too much?

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[reefs4life]

No, wet/dry just means that they can be used internally or externally

 

[ming]

MIng: Hmm the Panworld does look like it would be a good pump but I wasnt planning for an external pump. Maybe I should should be though, it seems heat will be a major issue with an submersible right?

Reefs4Life: I think I read on another site that the Lifeguard Quiet One is a wet dry? Does that mean it doesnt have to be completely submersed (like on a little stand half in and half out) therefore not heating the tank up too much?

Thanks for all the help guys!

I have the Water Blaster HY-7000, but not too concerned about the heat at less then 100W. When you're using 200-300W pumps, I'd more likely want them external because they add a lot more heat.

I was researching the QuiteOne pumps before and liked it due to its energy efficiency as well, but I decided against it because I heard numerous complains that it sometimes doesn't start back up after a power outage and you have to plug it in and out a couple of times to start back up. If I'm not home, I wouldn't want to chance that it *might* start up. Although there are other people reporting no issues starting back up so it might be a quality control thing. This was a few years back and it might have improved since.

 

[Alex]

I have the Water Blaster HY-7000, but not too concerned about the heat at less then 100W. When you're using 200-300W pumps, I'd more likely want them external because they add a lot more heat.

I was researching the QuiteOne pumps before and liked it due to its energy efficiency as well, but I decided against it because I heard numerous complains that it sometimes doesn't start back up after a power outage and you have to plug it in and out a couple of times to start back up. If I'm not home, I wouldn't want to chance that it *might* start up. Although there are other people reporting no issues starting back up so it might be a quality control thing. This was a few years back and it might have improved since.

How do you like that 7000?

BTW I don't believe that at that head pressure the quietone 9000 will have much flow.

 

[reefs4life]

How do you like that 7000?

BTW I don't believe that at that head pressure the quietone 9000 will have much flow.

Here are the specs for the Quiet One 9000 straight off their site

Maximum Gallons Freshwater 765
Maximum Gallons Saltwater 510
[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]Part No. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]R440108[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]Model [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]9000[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]GPH [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]2040[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]Max Ht. Ft[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]. 16.4[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]Watt [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]125[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]Amp [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]3.10[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]Suction [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]/[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]2[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]" MPT[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]Discharge [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]1[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]/[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]2[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]" MPT[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]20’ 3-pin cord[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]115 Volt/60 Hz[/FONT]
[/FONT]


FLOW RATE[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light](gph) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]HEAD[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light](ft)[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]2040 0[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]1609 5.3[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]1271 9.6[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]967 12.4[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]539 14.8[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light][FONT=Myriad Pro Light,Myriad Pro Light]0 16.4[/FONT][/FONT]​

 

[jaa1456]

I also never heard of Union valves or loc lines ever being considered a 1' loss if you have them. A union vlave has basiaclly no affect on the head pressure, The Loc line would only affect the back pressure depending on the actual exit piece on it. If it is wide open there would be almost no loss in head pressure or any back pressure. If it were a smaller opening then yes you would have back pressure. I run my Ehiem 1262 rated for around 900GPH with a Union valve, 2 90 degree elbows and a ball valve. With the Ball valve opened only a 1/2 way and it is still pumping nearly 600GPH at 5' head

 

[ming]

How do you like that 7000?

BTW I don't believe that at that head pressure the quietone 9000 will have much flow.

I love it. I have it internal in my sump, but I have heard the seals which allow it to be run externally may develop a slow leak... which isn't a concern for me since I'm running it internal anyways. What's also nice is the suction cup bottom which dampens some noise vibration with the bottom of the sump. No startup issues what so ever so far (been running it about 4-5 months now). I went from a mag9.5 to this so its using less wattage and a ton more flow!

 

[Wes]

I am not a fan of quiet one pumps.

I have a QO 4000 that is only used for salt mixing and water changes because It's hot and noisy.

Go for the water blaster.

I have a bubble blaster 5000 on my skimmer. The quiet one 4000 is MUCH noisier.