Reef with no CUC... how?

[pdnyc69]

Well when you are talking about turds last I checked snails and hermits didn't eat fish turds. They'll eat leftover food yea but some of that stuff is going to get stuck anyway regardless of how much CUC you have. Unless of course you take out all your rocks and dismantle your entire reef every time you do a water change and rinse every rock. What about all the turds from the snails and hermits themselves? EXACTLY! Don't get me wrong like I said I do a light siphoning because I have bare bottom and I can do that. When you have sand it does more bad then good. Siphoning it stirs everything up and makes a mess releasing all the nitrate and phosphate trapped below like I said earlier. Sand being so fine moves around a lot from the fish, critters digging, you moving a rock, whatever. Stuff gets trapped in the sand bed all day long. Having lots of rock helps to cancel out the EFFECTS that detritus and what not has on the tank. That bacteria is able to break down that waste minimizing the nutrient levels that cause nitrates and phosphates as well as algae growth. There might be some crap trapped in your rocks but it won't make your levels go crazy,or have insane algae outbreaks taking over the tank. Hence keeping it "clean". That's the point I was trying to make.

Spike, perhaps you should research the English language and learn proper punctuation? It's "you're" as in YOU ARE.."your" indicates ownership.

Not to get in the middle of your internet beef but hermits eat fish turds, snail turds, their own turds, and anything else that they can break up and fit in their mouths.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

Please don't derail this thread with petty crap, it actually has potential to be a good discussion.

The fact is that both setups with sand or a bare bottom have their pros and cons. Their is no perfect system, but there are right and wrong ways of doing things.

Too much rock in the tank also displaces too much water, without which your parameters become much harder to maintain and more susceptible to swings. These are the facts and they are well documented.

 

[bizzarro]

I never been there but I would assume having a lot of water movement in the tank would keep the debris from being trapped and suspended in the tank. I'm also assuming they have an external filtration with it for that to be true.

 

[jf2381]

I never been there but I would assume having a lot of water movement in the tank would keep the debris from being trapped and suspended in the tank. I'm also assuming they have an external filtration with it for that to be true.

regardless of how much flow, stuff still manages to find a spot to get trapped.

 

[marrone]

regardless of how much flow, stuff still manages to find a spot to get trapped.

One of the big things when people started going to bare bottom tanks was to have a lot of flow. Part of the flow was used so that the waste and stuff didn't accumulate in the tanks, usually in the corner or under rock. Once this was accomplished the over flow or filter would filter out the waste and stuff from the water. It did work but you needed to make sure the flow was everywhere and things didn't get trapped.

 

[jf2381]

One of the big things when people started going to bare bottom tanks was to have a lot of flow. Part of the flow was used so that the waste and stuff didn't accumulate in the tanks, usually in the corner or under rock. Once this was accomplished the over flow or filter would filter out the waste and stuff from the water. It did work but you needed to make sure the flow was everywhere and things didn't get trapped.

ah a few powerful powerheads places strategically throuhgout the tank would accomplish this.
Makes sense, but I just love my sand bed...I can't give it up.

 

[PhoenixOne]

Not to get in the middle of your internet beef but hermits eat fish turds, snail turds, their own turds, and anything else that they can break up and fit in their mouths.

I started a thread a few weeks ago about my psycho Hippo Tang that eats not only everyone else's poop, but also his own.....and loves it! LOL!

Jared, I've always been wondering if I may have too much rock in my tank. 90 gallon with about 115-120 lbs. The thing is, there are about 5 or 6 pieces that are big. It is possible that their size prevents flow from reaching a lot of spots. And now that you mentioned it, because of the amount, there maybe a rock to water ratio displacement that could be causing some small problems that I've been experiencing from time to time. Food for thought...I may have to look into busting some of the big pieces so as to not have them like a wall or maybe remove some chunks all together, little by little of course.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

I never go by the old 1-1.5 lbs / gallon. Every time I arrange new rock work it's with flow and hiding spaces in mind but I also try to make sure it looks good lol. I like to have more water volume and open spaces for fish to swim around. I'm always trying to make systems as efficient as possible and I find that more open space means fewer powerheads (but still more flow) and detritus deposition in the sand bed is minimal. Mostly detritus will settle around the base of the rocks due to advective current.

 

[TRIGGERMAN]

LFS,I agree with you on that,less water gets dirtier quicker obviously but once again I said SUMP. Pack the sump with rock I didn't say throw 300 lbs in a 40 breeder. I also like to keep my sump as big as my tank or real close to it more water volume and more rock. I'm setting up a 60 gallon tank I want a 65 gallon for my sump so I can just pack it out with rock is that a stupid thing to do? I think that's the best possible thing to do. The less rock in the display the better. More flow and then there is very minimal detritus buildup. I'm sure everyone has seen store displays w/ 0 rock and just fish and water they can do that and the tank stays so clean because they have a gigantic sump that it's all connected to or multiple large sumps with many hundreds if not thousands of lbs of live rock. I guess they are wrong too.

 

[Levito]

Ok, so what I've gotten out of the responses so far is that nobody really agrees on how to do it. Here seem to be the general themes:

1. Lots of flow to keep debris in the water column so that it can be filtered out, see #2
2. Strong mechanical filtration via filter socks, skimmers, etc.
3. Large sump packed with live rock so that less rock can be in the main display. Less rock in the main display means more flow to help with #1.
4. More maintenance. Maintenance is always important, but even moreso without a CUC.
5. Bare bottom tanks can't hurt, since it allows you to have increased flow. See #1.
6. Run an ULNS. Less nutrients means less unwanted inhabitants growing as a result.
7. It wasn't mentioned, but I'm guessing an UV sterilizer would probably help.

I imagine it would be rather expensive and time consuming to be able to do this. I already spend an average of a half hour a day on my tank. I don't have a sump (damn RSM 250!), so I'm somewhat limited on the filtration I can put in place. i spend an hour a week doing water changes and general cleaning, along with a half hour a day dosing, topping off, and keeping the glass clean. I can't imagine how much more time I'd be spending if I didn't have the CUC I have now.

 

[marrone]

There are many different ways of doing a tank, BB, SB, DSB, LR in the tank, LR in the sump, large skimmer, good water movement, large CUC and so on. The thing is that they all work, but you need to make sure the tank is setup correctly and you do the proper maintenance for the setup that you have chosen. So if you don't follow the requirement, and maintenance, of a particular setup, you'll have problems in the end.

 

[Will C]

There are many different ways of doing a tank, BB, SB, DSB, LR in the tank, LR in the sump, large skimmer, good water movement, large CUC and so on. The thing is that they all work, but you need to make sure the tank is setup correctly and you do the proper maintenance for the setup that you have chosen. So if you don't follow the requirement, and maintenance, of a particular setup, you'll have problems in the end.

Well said. Each hobbyist should have the setup he/she wants and know how to maintain their specific setup. Many elements discussed here are preference driven. The maintenance is driven by the actual components of your tank. My basic rule is 20 minutes a day and a nice, on schedule, water change saves frustration and a big 'for sale' thread.