More MAC

[MaryHM]

Could that be the draft legislation proposed by the USCRTF well over a year ago that MAC opposed?? I don't know, I've never seen it.

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz what is that long post.
Is it proposed fedeal legislation or what?
Thanks

This Act may be cited as the Coral Reef Conservation and Protection Act of 2000.

it is law.(afaik)

it is also what gives the govt the authorized power by congress to shut down the industrty, if necessary,when it gets tired of what's going on w/the reefs.(afaik)

i think you should read it :wink:

it also, technically, gives the gov't the power to shut down mac for already violating some of the sections of the act.

though, according to my source (who i shall call 'deep throat')- the gov't will probably just shut down the industry, instead of trying to rassle w/mac.

food for thought:

as is the case w/so many other legislative passings, all it takes is a 'squeaky enough wheel to get the oil'.

all that needs to happen is for enough people to yell at their congressmen
about the travesty of mac, and bye bye industry.

i will wait a few yrs.-and as you are all my witness,-including mr. holthus :wink: ,-i will start to contact every single gov't official i can get my hands on, including every single environmental lobby group, and each organization that has funded mac in any way,to demand a shut down of mac, for violating the law.


if they, or someone else doesn't get their act together.soon.

money talks, and bs walks-as the saying goes.

i am sick of the bs

i also know that mac is hungry for money

i intend to address the source of the flow

it is my profound hope that shutting down this industry will not be necessary

however-the hobby will not be shutdown-i am quite content to have only captive bred specimens available, and aquacultured inverts/lr as the only sources for the hobby.

those who make a living by 'providing' for this hobby had better wake up, and take a long good hard look at what they prefer.

giving the ethical hobbyist what they want, or having the ethical hobbyist shut 'em down (this is addressed to you and your ilk specifically, kalk :wink: )

and fwiw-to any of the industry clowns that may think of resorting to some of the methods that have been applied to the likes of don dewey, and others-threats make me laugh-and i will freely post any and all developments that may unfold in my endeavors :wink:

(after all, i am the israeli heat, and impervious to grenades :wink: )

 

[MaryHM]

Vitz,

Can you provide us with the title and number of the law? A link would be AWESOME.

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz,

Can you provide us with the title and number of the law? A link would be AWESOME.

mary:

first- i do want to caution all with a bit of level headedness :wink: the present administration is very likely to close everything down soon, at the excuse of a headache

this is why i stated in my earlier post that i will wait a year or two before i start to make a very big stink :wink:

i will say that my source is reliable(absolutely) and here is what i was told about the bill:

its the final draft of the coral reef act of 2000 bill # is 042800

it has been passed by the house

all the CRTF has to do is send it to congress for final approval

there were 3 calls to inact it at the last CRTF meeting

for some reason-crtf withheld/postponed the passing of the act...though an approximate 'deadline' originally proposed is coming very close to passing :wink:

i could give reasonable conjecture as to why it was postponed-but that's secondhand hearsay-and for now, i'm willing to not piss off the 'players'
of this game.

the best thing to do, imho-is to wait a yr. or two, for some other 'behind the scenes' stuff going on to surface(that i have also been made aware of)


sorry for being so cryptic-but you will all have to settle, presently, for my word as a gentleman, and ethical animal caretaker, that what i'm posting here, is in fact true.


a personal observation on mac:

i think that a major reason for macs present scrambling for a good pr image has alot to do with economics, the future of funding, and the arrival of a few new 'competitive players' on the scene.also, maybe, because the deadline for them to face the music is arriving.

hth

vitz

 

[PeterIMA]

Vitz, I believe you have posted part of the "DRAFT" Coral Reef Legislation (2000). I don't believe this was ever passed by the House. At the last SCRTF Meeting (held in Puerto Rico last October) the head of the Trade Subgroup proposed to submit it to Congress. The USCRTF decided not to do this. As far as I know it is far from becoming law.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

Peter:

like i said, i'm relaying this second hand, and you may well be right.

however-given the politics and interests of the current administration, i don't think it would take very much to get passed.

sorry for any misinformation.

just knowing that this draft is here and 'ready' should be a wake up call to org.s like mac :wink:

 

[dizzy]

vitz,

IMO the Bush Administration is not going to shut down the marine industry. That legislation was drafted under the Clinton administration and if Al Gore was president it would have already been passed. If the marine industry does not do something, a new Democratic Administration is much more likely to pass this legislation. The way the economy is looking that may well be the case in 2004. I'm just curious as to why MAC opposed the legislation, if that is the case. Anyone care to share any insight on that?

Mitch

 

[MaryHM]

Mitch,

Email Paul and ask him. I'd love to know the answer.

 

[John_Brandt]

As my very first post on Reefs.org, I am going to aim this one directly at Vitz's head.

I have been watching this forum for over a year, and I just cannot contain myself any longer. Vitz, for someone who has posted over 2500 times, you owe it to yourself, and this forum, to say something truthful and helpful every once in a while.

Let me correct a few terrible errors you have made here, and passed on to the general readership. The Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) does not pay its Board of Directors. None of them receive salaries, or any form of payment for serving on the Board. They were picked primarily for their expertise in their respected fields. It was also necessary, for legal purposes, that the Board be partially composed of representatives from conservation organizations. You, and a few others who post here, are of the mistaken belief, that the MAC BOD, are a bunch of paid buffoons. These are fraudulent claims against an organization that you, and others, have accused of fraud.

That is rather ironic, but then again, the Internet brings out a kind of insanity in people. You sit in front of a keyboard, typing out whatever comes to mind. There is nobody there, sitting in front of you, to stop you from sending out worthless trash. Vitz, when you hit the "Submit" button, it is almost as if you've flushed feces down the toilet.

Your recent post of the Draft Legislation from the United States Coral Reef Task Force (USCRTF) was both a good thing, and another terrible mistake. Good, in that now the forum can read the proposed law that the USCRTF has crafted. Terrible, in that you have falsely given the impression that this really exists as a law. I guess your "Deep Throat" informant turned out to be a "Shallow Navel".

I spent a good number of hours in Samoa in 2000, with the USCRTF, discussing just what this proposed legislation would be about. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a ban on importation, or an "end to the hobby". Many here have adopted a sort of paranoia, that the Government is just one step away from pressing the button. The button that will end the hobby. This is not true. The USCRTF wishes to bring necessary changes to the marine aquarium industry, not eliminate it.

The MAC is not breaking any laws Vitz. But you, are breaking an unwritten law, that most mothers pass on to their children...don't lie to people you care about.

The USCRTF supports, and is looking to, the MAC, to bring about changes in the marine aquarium industry. It is an enormously difficult task to reform an already-corrupted network of supply and demand. The effort is only multiplied, when false statements are cast out to the teeming millions, right here on the World Wide Web.

You have mentioned that you "will wait a year or two before I start to make a very big stink.." I hope, for the sake of sanity, that you wait a century.

I am watching you Vitz.


John Brandt

Marine Aquarium Societies of North America (MASNA) - Representative to the United States Coral Reef Task Force (USCRTF) and the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC)

Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) - Board of Directors, Best Standards Advisory Committee, Unsuitable Species Advisory Committee

Chicagoland Marine Aquarium Society (CMAS) - Vice President, Programs Committee Director

 

[dizzy]

Mitch,

Email Paul and ask him. I'd love to know the answer.

Mary,

I would, but I don't think Paul likes me very much. Do you mind doing it?

Mitch

 

[dizzy]

Mitch,

Email Paul and ask him. I'd love to know the answer.

Mary,

I would, but I don't think Paul likes me very much. Do you mind doing it? :wink:

Mitch

 

[MaryHM]

Mitch, I wouldn't exactly say I'm on his Christmas Card list either...

 

[dizzy]

John,

Let me be the first to say welcome to posting on reefs.org. I truly hope you understand that MAC has brought a lot of the criticism on by its actions. I understand you have an unpaid, thankless job and I for one appreciate the time you put into it. Perhaps more of the MAC board should join the discussion and it would help to dissolve some of the mystery that surronds MAC.

Mitch Gibbs

 

[John_Brandt]

Mitch,

The "job" is not thankless at all. Helping this industry/hobby to reform, that I have been a part of for over 25 years, is an honor. It is a rocky road, but the wagon will make it to the fort.

John

 

[Kalkbreath]

John Brandt! What dont run off into the shadows again for another two years. If you like the truth , then Have I got some questions for you!
_________________
Mercedes 500
_________________
Depression Forum

 

[John_Brandt]

Kalkbreath,

Do I know you? :roll:

John

 

[MaryHM]

For the record, I agree with John concerning what Vitz said and I have already spoken to Vitz privately about it.

 

[MaryHM]

John,

I noticed that you put in your signature that you are a member of the Unsuitable Species List committee. Has MAC already formed this committee?

 

[Anonymous]

As my very first post on Reefs.org, I am going to aim this one directly at Vitz's head.

I have been watching this forum for over a year, and I just cannot contain myself any longer. Vitz, for someone who has posted over 2500 times, you owe it to yourself, and this forum, to say something truthful and helpful every once in a while.

Let me correct a few terrible errors you have made here, and passed on to the general readership. The Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) does not pay its Board of Directors. None of them receive salaries, or any form of payment for serving on the Board. They were picked primarily for their expertise in their respected fields. It was also necessary, for legal purposes, that the Board be partially composed of representatives from conservation organizations. You, and a few others who post here, are of the mistaken belief, that the MAC BOD, are a bunch of paid buffoons. These are fraudulent claims against an organization that you, and others, have accused of fraud.
That is rather ironic, but then again, the Internet brings out a kind of insanity in people. You sit in front of a keyboard, typing out whatever comes to mind. There is nobody there, sitting in front of you, to stop you from sending out worthless trash. Vitz, when you hit the "Submit" button, it is almost as if you've flushed feces down the toilet.

Your recent post of the Draft Legislation from the United States Coral Reef Task Force (USCRTF) was both a good thing, and another terrible mistake. Good, in that now the forum can read the proposed law that the USCRTF has crafted. Terrible, in that you have falsely given the impression that this really exists as a law. I guess your "Deep Throat" informant turned out to be a "Shallow Navel".

I spent a good number of hours in Samoa in 2000, with the USCRTF, discussing just what this proposed legislation would be about. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a ban on importation, or an "end to the hobby". Many here have adopted a sort of paranoia, that the Government is just one step away from pressing the button. The button that will end the hobby. This is not true. The USCRTF wishes to bring necessary changes to the marine aquarium industry, not eliminate it.

The MAC is not breaking any laws Vitz. But you, are breaking an unwritten law, that most mothers pass on to their children...don't lie to people you care about.

The USCRTF supports, and is looking to, the MAC, to bring about changes in the marine aquarium industry. It is an enormously difficult task to reform an already-corrupted network of supply and demand. The effort is only multiplied, when false statements are cast out to the teeming millions, right here on the World Wide Web.

You have mentioned that you "will wait a year or two before I start to make a very big stink.." I hope, for the sake of sanity, that you wait a century.

I am watching you Vitz.


John Brandt

Marine Aquarium Societies of North America (MASNA) - Representative to the United States Coral Reef Task Force (USCRTF) and the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC)

Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) - Board of Directors, Best Standards Advisory Committee, Unsuitable Species Advisory Committee

Chicagoland Marine Aquarium Society (CMAS) - Vice President, Programs Committee Director

paul holthus wrote:

MAC currently operates on grants from foundations and government programs for development assistance to other countries. Major supporters have included the Packard Foundation, the MacArthur Foundation, Canadian-South Pacific Ocean Development Program and US Agency for International Development. A significant portion of MAC time is spent on developing the interaction with these organizations and writing/revising proposals for grant support. There has also been some industry support from a few individual companies and trade associations

my point is that mac, as an organization, recieves operational funding from u.s. based organizations.

it is against the policy of the uscrtf to collect using techniques that damage marine life and environments.

mac certifies cyanide collection operations

ergo: these funding agencies/orgs, along with mac, are funding the certification of cyanided fish collection.

do me a favor, and call a cyanided fish certified with u.s. sourced dollars through the auspices of mac a travesty-and i'll leave you alone :wink:

until then-i will speak my mind, and oppose mac in any way i can

at least until it shows ME, that it stops the collection of cyanided fish collection, or it's veiled endorsement of said deplorable practice

 

[Anonymous]

John_Brandt wrote:

Let me correct a few terrible errors you have made here, and passed on to the general readership. The Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) does not pay its Board of Directors. None of them receive salaries, or any form of payment for serving on the Board.

i don't recall claiming that mac did pay it's board of directors-can you please show me the quote?

The MAC is not breaking any laws Vitz. But you, are breaking an unwritten law, that most mothers pass on to their children...don't lie to people you care about

sorry bubba-but mac has lied to me as an ethical hobbyist for way too long, and the recent certification of fish before a cyanide detection test is in place is just the icing on the cake

You have mentioned that you "will wait a year or two before I start to make a very big stink.." I hope, for the sake of sanity, that you wait a century.

i think i'll start drafting a letter to my congressman tomorrow-pushing for swift passage of the uscrtf act and its immediate enforcement.

I am watching you Vitz

how's my haircut? :wink:

you think a bully impresses me? LOL


you are simply using vociferous bullying tactics to attempt to cover up years of macs non accomplishments and whitewashing of an industry that's more corrupt than the mafia

your mac has wasted years of time of the hobbyists who should have demanded on their own, a shutdown of the industry.

i do not care, much if the industry gets shut down TOMORROW-though i sympathize with the honest folk who try to make their living w/out dealing in cyanided fish, who will suffer their livelihood

i am a hobbyist, not a store owner-and my prime concern is the reefs, and their health.

if stopping the widescale destruction of reef area from cyanide collection means i have to try and shut YOU down-i will-and i will sacrifice the hobby to do it, too.