Imported/Transhipped corals? "West to East coast"

[eddie]

I've located a Indonesian importer of fish & corals that I am considering doing business with soon.
They seem to be able to offer me the best price point blank

They claim to be able to get my order from Indonesia around 8 & ship by 11-12 not sure of Indonesia to CA ship time yet

then I figured the ship time West to East coast around 6-7 mabey more

plus 45min - 1 hr till acclimation.

will this work for sps without water changes?seems to be less than 24 hrs

I can also have the water changed for extra before shipment from LAX to RDU.(what is the average charge per full box for this type service)

I understand the potintal mortality rates & such but also wonder if a perfectly scheduled flight plan could buff that.

www.southeasterncorals.com will be my website it is under construction & will have several pages added.I chose to use a service that lets me instantly edit my site to add new coral pics as needed.

I also plan to do business with several other reputable wholesalers but am leaning more toward the Import Tranship method if sucessful(seems there are more Importer/Transhippers than I knew)

Im not officaly open online but will be soon.

also what is a reox charge .Reair bags I asume just curious is this Transhipper jargen(this is also a optional charge)
the reason I have to ask so many questions here instead of over the phone with the importer is that they speak slightly broken English & I have a slight prob understanding some parts

they claim to have shipped corals this way with success but dont actualy have coral holding facilitys so have little actual experiance with corals

TIA

 

[Anonymous]

Um, have you ever done any shipping before? There is a LOT to know.

For instance, reox is where they would crack open the boxes (don't see the point for corals), break open the bags, let out the O2, and refill with fresh. I've never seen it done, not even for fish.

I don't think you're being realistic about the ship times, either. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[eddie]

yes I recieved corals from wholesalers who have holding facilitys but never from someone who just buys & imediatly resells



changing the water is done for longer ship times

to my knowledge the importer changes the water after importing using mixed or steralized seawater

could you give me a realistic ship time ?Im no expert YET!

 

[Anonymous]

Well, it sounds kinda heeby to me, ya know? I think since you're just starting this thing you might wanna go with folks you know, ya know?

 

[eddie]

hebby like gebby?I dont know yet somtimes ya get lucky.I plan to have a small 1 box trial shipment sent first week of next month of a mix of softies, lps ,sps & few fish & see

btw they do have facilitys for holding softies & fish I think
after a little more inquesition

they keep cost down by offering a seemingly honest service with extremly low overhead

seemed honest over the phone anyway

 

[MaryHM]

Do NOT and I repeat do NOT transship into RDU. You don't have any direct flight from LAX. Time from Indo pack to clearance at LAX is about 30 hours. I get my pack list on Thursday nights at about 2am and the flight arrives Saturdays at about 9am. You will not be saving any money because your corals will then have another 15+ hours of transit time from LAX to you and you will lose a lot. For the sake of the animals, don't risk it.

 

[MaryHM]

I understand the potintal mortality rates & such but also wonder if a perfectly scheduled flight plan could buff that.

There is no such thing as a perfectly scheduled flight.

 

[eddie]

what about with the water change holding procedure then..

Im glad you answered

that is why I posted here first I know there are a few experts lurking


btw they honestly told me they had little experiance with sps corals

they did'nt say I'd have a direct flight & I have no transhipping experiance yet Im trying to learn now(they actualy metioned water changing to me first)I asumed there'd be a direct flight because I've searched for round trip tickets & seem to remember direct flights I have to reinvestigate that

so I still dont consider them shady as of now.... the water change procedure they were trying to explain to me
they called rewatering was like 17 dollars per large full box negotiable by order size is this fair ?

 

[eddie]

btw Im also scouting jobers to hand pick corals for me from wholesaler facilitys like mentioned in Anthonys book .So if there are any jobers located near lax interested ...or would be jobers out there feel free to email me to discuss experiance with sps please

 

[naesco]

Most of the tangs, triggers and angels from Indonesia are cyanide caught.
Have you checked that out?
Cyanide will cause you high DOA.

 

[DBM]

Naesco,

The local Indo transhipper here has virtually a zero DOA rate. I think a high DOA rate can be attributed more to poor handling and packing than the cyanide.

 

[eddie]

no but I did look at thier extremly low fish price list

Im mainly interested in corals but was considering adding fish to each order if I did business with them

thanks for the input though I'll look into it

 

[eddie]

ok another question then what would the statistics be for a full box of mushrooms transhipped West to East coast people ship them ground mail with low DOA rates

or is it just a bad idea all together bottom line & go to plan B (try to renegotiate the holding rewatering fee) $17 seems fair I guess since there is no minimum order really if its a small order like 1-2 boxes

but for 10 boxes that adds up the price would have to be lowered some I have'nt scratched the math down yet but will


I'd be happy just to be able to tranship boxes full of just nice mushrooms with low doa

 

[Anonymous]

You know, eddie, you made it sound as though you've done shipping before. Clearly you haven't. I'm glad Mary piped up, to tell the truth. Reading your subsequent posts, I don't think you really understand/know what's involved.

I worked the trade for some years, and I've never seen anyone stop long enough to open a box that's in transit to change water, air, O2, nothing. Not unless they're on the flight with it. You'll have troubles with every step, and it takes time to build certain relationships, including at the final airport destination. If you haven't worked the business, may I suggest you try it for a while? Also, you should go to http://www.wetwebfotos.com/talk/ and ask around there, maybe even email Bob, he'll give the skinny just like Mary has.

 

[eddie]

just to clarify Im not shipping anything except retail corals & other livestock mainly with FEDX.Im buying then having it shipped to me all handled by the Importer
if I do business with them



I never ment to perpatrate as anything by sounding like I did anything I never done

I was fishing for comments mainly from the experianced lurkers who understand this water change holding procedure berfore investing that much money in extra charges that I see are inevetable but will be worth it

so to get it straight SEAMAIDIN you never heard of doing this before so it is'nt being done to ship corals longer distance correct

 

[Anonymous]

That's correct, eddie, I've never heard of this water change or reox thing before. I don't know how, exactly, they would plan on doing this once they send the stock. Packing for ship is a time consuming procedure in the first place, to then unpack each box and repack it would double that time. Maybe there are others who know of this, it's never been my own experience. I don't think it could be a nominal cost, considering that facilities would be needed (there's no way they can reox in transit on a plane), which means that whoever is doing this is skilled enough to repack so nothing explodes at altitude. So, my first questions to them would be "Who and how?"

Also, as Mary stated, there is truly no way to accurately predict airlines, as there are so many variables that go into that end of it. I can't tell you how many boxes of livestock I've unpacked either frozen or cooked because some bozo left them out on the tarmack, either. Ground shipping is, in my honest opinion, a bust. It's just not feasible, and would add SO much time to transit I couldn't even imagine.

Of course, it has been a while, but livestock hasn't changed much,nor have their requirements. The shipments the aquarium receives (if it's not stuff just being transferred from Monterey Bay or stock that Fish & Game has confiscated) comes in the same way it has for years and years, so I feel fairly confident that it's still done as it was when I first got into it (to pay for my own "habit", btw :lol: ).

When you say..

just to clarify Im not shipping anything except retail corals & other livestock mainly with FEDX.Im buying then having it shipped to me all handled by the Importer
if I do business with them

then it seems to me that you have become an importer, just like any (or most at least) LFS or broker. Maybe you can find someone locally who will let you get some hands-on experience, let you see how they handle it and all, how volume shipments come in and all.

What this company is offering just seems too good to be true to me, doesn't it? If their animals are so inexpensive, why is that? A test shipment seems like a good idea, but I'm going to strongly suggest you also email Bob Fenner. He literally grew up in this business, he's been in it longer than anyone I've known, and he's exceedingly prompt in his replies. He is very truthful, just as Mary has been. I believe that there are other reps here who are import/export, you can try emailing them, too.

I hope I haven't made you mad with me or anything, and I'm sorry that I got the wrong impression of what you said.

 

[eddie]

I have'nt even considered ground mail,I just stated that people have shipped mushrooms this way with low doa

so.....mabey I could get mushrooms & zoos & such that are easyer shippers thru direct transhipping with low or no doa


the repacking is being done by people ALOT ,thus the 17 dollar repacking fee.They claim to have experiance doing this

I guess they take the boxes home which is'nt far from lax & then reship them after holding & repacking

this makes since to me if a coral has a 48 hr approximante exported to my facility box/ship time

I dont see the point as where this is unreasonable.......seems it would increase statistics of live corals arriving healthy instead of doa

my main concern which I'll rediscuss with them is that the procedure is done properly to avoid stressing the animals even more


you'd be hard pressed to actualy make me MAD I love a little heated debate...& my life is way to good to let trivial things put negative spins on my carma

thanks for the advice I will try to contact Bob

I actualy have several pet shops that I've started networking privatly with
fwiw

shipping corals from my facility to retail costumers is NO brain surgery it can & has been done at high success rates most of the year with concess planning

I have never actualy recive any directly transhipped corals that is why I posted to this form(for advice )

far as buying from wholesalers(not brain surgery either) go's as I mentioned they will be a integral part of my business also but Im leaning toward the much cheaper transhipp method if it can be worked out by rebagging & holding

these people seem to want to help me & I respect all the effort they have put forth already to get my business

I will do alot more over phone questioning before actualy placing a order but they seem egar to do business & I like that ....I wont do a large bank transfer with them until they prove their quality though.

the exporter list they sent me seems to have corals from the exact same waters as everyone else.....they mentioned that they actualy import from more than one location

Im still learning thats why I did'nt get a order filled yesterday for sunday arrival

I told them i had to study alittle on this & would try for thier next shippment from Indonesia to fill my pack list from their exporter

seems anyone capable of handling the paper work & scheduling flights who is located near lax can be a importer/transhipper without even having a tank

but far as rebagging go's I hope they are skilled,I have heard of this also before finding them though

 

[MaryHM]

The repacking is basically worthless. They take the coral out of the dirty water, put it in clean water, reox the bag, repack the box a lot looser than what was originally packed, then you pay a reox fee and more freight! The animal is completely stressed out from shipping, then further stressed out by an instant water change (no acclimation), then further stressed out by reshipping. I do not recommend it for corals and DEFINITELY NOT FOR FISH. You will be trying to save a few bucks (and believe me, it will proabably end up costing you more than buying from an inhouse wholesaler) at the risk of KILLING ANIMALS. If money is all you care about then by all means go ahead and transship. If you care about your animals, don't do it.

 

[JennM]

no but I did look at thier extremly low fish price list

Ch-CHING! That's not the cash register -- that's my ALARM BELL and red flag...

Posted by eddie on July 30/2002 at 21:47

btw MaryHM truly answered my question in the begining

Thanks for the advice which I took to heart & totaly abandoned the idea of importing

I did'nt even relize she was the moderator at the time

Changed your mind I see?

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the cheap price is forgotten (Remember that, eddie? I used that same motto in that very same thread...)

This NOT intended to be a flame, although it may be construed as one, so I'm attaching this disclaimer -- I'm only trying to be helpful here.

Seamaiden and others who are also trying to be helpful, search eddie's old posts. He has asked for help and advice before, but when we give it, he keeps asking over and over til he hears what he wants to hear, or he just does what he pleases anyway. Given the thread I recall replying to in the not too distant past, we encouraged him to work in the trade for a while, draft a SOLID business plan, BEFORE embarking on this venture. Had he done so, he'd know the answers to these questions now. That thread ran about 9 pages.... :roll:

However, it appears that the lure of the cheapest price has drawn him in. After all, that's what it's about, right? :roll:

I've seen those lists, fish for "cents" apiece but look at the box charges, repacking charges, reox charges, mortality rates (!!!!) and from Indo, cheap fish = cyanide in my book -- I won't do it. And I have a direct flight from LAX! I pay more per fish/coral from responsible and reputable importer/wholesalers Stateside, and I have a superior success rate, and I know that what I've bought is NET-CAUGHT.

As for corals -- well I think the same principle applies. Cheaper is not always better, and when you do the math, the cheaper base price of the animal might be appealing but by the time you add up all the extras, and subtract the dead ones, I don't really think you will be further ahead at all -- in fact, IMO you'll be worse off -- but that's just my humble (experienced) opinion. The most expensive animal is a DEAD animal

But alas, eddie will find some justification to go ahead and do this anyway, since he's come to this point flying by the seat of his pants -- I believe . Eddie -- didn't you explore all the costs of transhipping when you wrote your business plan? I surely factored in freight rates, box charges and mortality into my business plan.

Mary had a really good point about the airlines and about direct flights. I'm fortunate to live in a major hub and (knock on wood) have not had any major problems (yet) but the place I worked at before here in the same city, DID have lost shipments (oh the humanity!) and it's a major heartbreak not to mention a financial nightmare when things go wrong. If you don't have a direct flight out of LAX you are taking a HUGE chance. I'd bet your stuff would come through here, ATL and it's known as the "black hole" for stuff getting lost....if it terminates here you're ok, but if it goes on from here, there are many cases of misdirected or delayed feight...I've heard plenty of horror stories from my peers in other cities who use ATL as a hub.

Just don't sink all of that 401K money into a bunch boxes of dead stuff....

Jenn

 

[eddie]

I have another question to put out(for anyone)

what other airports are used for importing transhipping to be honest I have to find out if they even use lax I never asked just asumed since the area code was 310

what do you mean alarm bell?this meens they are (for sure)cyinide caught IYO?