Is it time to blow the whistle on industry?

[Anonymous]

Rover has added some questions to this preliminary Manifesto and the next steps that might ocurr.
I don't have all the answers but here is some food for thought.
The answers to questions 1-3 implementation and enforcement:
If the Manifesto was adopted by the representative present it would contain undertakings by industy to adopt the CDT with a time certain and pay for the random testing at their facilities by independent professional scientists. Who would pay for the testing as well as the third party validation? Specifically, "Industry" isn't good enough
I would expect that industry would immediately agree to say 10 of the 45 species of coral and fish on the proposed USL as a show of good faith and the rest would be subject to negotiations. Why? Who picks the ten? What happens to the fish that are already here that are on the list? How do we let the collectors know which ten to avoid?Perhaps the opinions of outside experts like, Borneman, Michael and Fenner might be sought.
A training fund and budget would set up funded by industry with a reasonable timeline. We know there is a wealth of people willing and anxious to help. Again, your industry term is way to vague. Who sets up the fund? Who holds and controls the money? And you realize that you are suggesting that everyone suddenly holds hands with their competitors and sings Kum bay yah, don't you?
The Participants.
1. People like myself who are prepared to blow the whistle on industry including experts in training, cyanide and the packaging/handling of fish and coral would represent reform. Do you really think you are going to tell anyone anything they don't already know? Do you really think this ia all a big secret that is just know coming to light? Do you really think that whistle hasn't already been blown?
2. Representatives from the appropriate Ministry in the Phillipines and Indonesia. The reps would have the political clout to go back to their respective govenments and tell them that their Marine Industy will be closed down unless certain steps are taken by them. Do you really think that their entire Marine Industry depends on pet fish? How do you plan on getting a rep from their government at the table? A phone call?
3. Representative from the US Government who are prepared to take whatever steps are necessary to close the industry down in the event that industry fails to act on the committments they will make. Who would this be? And how do you plan on getting the governmnet to agree to shut down an entire industry in a "reasonable timeline"?
4. All the major importers/wholesalers or their agreed representatives. They would have the authority to sign the committments to be made by industry. They would explain to their 'members' the consequences of failure to adopt and follow through with their committments. They would fund all reforms. What incentive do they have for funding all reforms? Until you have proof that the government is going to shut down the industry they have no incentive to do anything, except provide what their customers want.
5. Members of the public including those who may be adverse to our hobby so that they can see reform happen or take appropriate steps if it fails. What do you mean if it fails? I thought the government would shut it down?
6. Observers" MAC, MASNA, AMDA come to mind

 

[Anonymous]

I love how everybody talks about how "If I were in the industry, I'd do this" Pah-leeze. Like there is some gigantic fish cartel and we meet every other Tuesday to plan the rape and pillaging of the reefs. Do any of you honestly know how many damn phone calls I get from some new knucklehead trying to sell me animals he's importing??? While there are a few 800 pound gorilla's in this business - everybody and their brother in Socal is importing a few boxes a week as well. Market forces are affecting change, I'm seeing more and more of these knuckleheads claiming "net-caught" etc It's becoming a buzzword, and demand is increasing - but good gawd have some patience, some of you are acting like if we don't stop the use of cyanide by 17:59 EDT on August 13th the world is going to stop turning. The hysterics are getting old folks - stop bitching and do something effective donate to the net fund, support the proper businesses.

rant off - I gotta go pack for my Reef-Cutters meeting....

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscars night?
We do! We do!

 

[mkirda]

If they taxed the export of fish and corals wouldn't they have the funds then? If there is anything a government is good at it's taking money.

And if there is anything that money is good for over there, it is for lining the pockets of unscrupulous politicians.

How do you get rich in the Philippines? Go into politics.

Do you know who brought down Estrada? One of his cronies.
Why? Because he was pissed off that he was not getting enough of a cut from an illegal gambling ring. He spouted off the the media and brought the president down. I remember because I was there when it happened.

And the whistleblower? Oh, even though he was guilty of accepting those 'reduced' payoffs, he was never charged, and was still a senator last I followed the case.

How about the guy who just escaped from the maximum security prison?
He was the leader of the SE Asian wing of JI. This is like the Filipino Osama. Oops, he's gone... No one knows anything.

In a Keystone Cop-ish way, politics (and money) over there is pretty funny to watch, as long as you don't take it too seriously.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

Do you know who brought down Estrada? One of his cronies.

Jon ratted out Ponch? what kinda partner is that????!?!?!?

 

[mkirda]

Jon ratted out Ponch? what kinda partner is that????!?!?!?

Erap, not Eric! Jeez... Besides, isn't Eric relegated to Mexican soap operas now? Punishment enough IMO...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

Actually I'd pay ohhh $7 bucks to see him in a big bumblebee suit like the guy from the Simpsons. 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Wasn't it a "tang police" sting opreation that brought him down? I think Eric was trying to score a couple of Achilles tangs for his 5 gallon reef tank when the net came down on him.

 

[Anonymous]

Mr. Esrada in now the spokesman for Lake Shastalita(sp?) in CA, cheap land and you can pick out your own spot :lol: . You gotta see these adds

 

[My Hairy Ass]

I mean, really, what difference are we going to make here in the US if the reform has to begin with the government in a foreign country? Peace,

Chip

Perhaps if the industry could show a link to cyanide use in the weapons of mass destruction, international terrorism, connections to the Abu Siaf, then Bush could invade another country? Let's face it, it will be easier to find cyanide in the Philippines than WMD in Iraq. Then again, he'd have to know where the Philippines was in the first place......Maybe AMDA or someone could pay for him on the fact-finding trip that everyone is so interested in!

MHA

 

[naesco]

Rover has added some questions to this preliminary Manifesto and the next steps that might ocurr.
I don't have all the answers but here is some food for thought.
The answers to questions 1-3 implementation and enforcement:
If the Manifesto was adopted by the representative present it would contain undertakings by industy to adopt the CDT with a time certain and pay for the random testing at their facilities by independent professional scientists. Who would pay for the testing as well as the third party validation? Specifically, "Industry" isn't good enough

A.....Why not. I understand but could be wrong, that the exporters pay a fee on a per fish basis for test performed.

I would expect that industry would immediately agree to say 10 of the 45 species of coral and fish on the proposed USL as a show of good faith and the rest would be subject to negotiations. Why? Who picks the ten? What happens to the fish that are already here that are on the list? How do we let the collectors know which ten to avoid?

A....The first ten would be chosen by the reps. A timeline would be put in place allowing word to get out to the fishers that industry (P/I exporters) would no longer purchase those fish from them.

Perhaps the opinions of outside experts like, Borneman, Michael and Fenner might be sought.
A training fund and budget would set up funded by industry with a reasonable timeline. We know there is a wealth of people willing and anxious to help. Again, your industry term is way to vague. Who sets up the fund? Who holds and controls the money? And you realize that you are suggesting that everyone suddenly holds hands with their competitors and sings Kum bay yah, don't you?

A.....The reps would hire someone to look after it for them. Perhaps an existing NGO. Whatever works.
If the P/I exporters realize that the party is over unless they band together to clean up their act no singing will be necessary.
The Participants.
1. People like myself who are prepared to blow the whistle on industry including experts in training, cyanide and the packaging/handling of fish and coral would represent reform. Do you really think you are going to tell anyone anything they don't already know? Do you really think this ia all a big secret that is just know coming to light? Do you really think that whistle hasn't already been blown?

A.....Yes, Yes and Yes

2. Representatives from the appropriate Ministry in the Phillipines and Indonesia. The reps would have the political clout to go back to their respective govenments and tell them that their Marine Industy will be closed down unless certain steps are taken by them. Do you really think that their entire Marine Industry depends on pet fish? How do you plan on getting a rep from their government at the table? A phone call?

A.....No it is not the whole industry but a closure of the pet fish/coral/rock/dand industry would severely hurt a part of that industry. I would expect decision makers from P?I would be over here in flash trying to save those jobs and exports.

3. Representative from the US Government who are prepared to take whatever steps are necessary to close the industry down in the event that industry fails to act on the committments they will make. Who would this be? And how do you plan on getting the governmnet to agree to shut down an entire industry in a "reasonable timeline"?

A...The appropriate US Ministry will request a total embargo on Philippine and Indonesia coral/rock and fish until appropriate action is taken.

4. All the major importers/wholesalers or their agreed representatives. They would have the authority to sign the committments to be made by industry. They would explain to their 'members' the consequences of failure to adopt and follow through with their committments. They would fund all reforms. What incentive do they have for funding all reforms? Until you have proof that the government is going to shut down the industry they have no incentive to do anything, except provide what their customers want.

A....The incentive is the continuation of their business of importing fish and coral. The alternative is closure. I would say that is quite an incentive.

5. Members of the public including those who may be adverse to our hobby so that they can see reform happen or take appropriate steps if it fails. What do you mean if it fails? I thought the government would shut it down?

A....Who said anything about the government. Those adverse would include organizations like Greenpeace who would educate the publid and put pressure on the government to do something. An obvious example would be the Canadian seal hunt. As a result of Greenpeace and International boycott of all Canadian goods, the government began to regulate the industry. Now methods of killing, instruments of killing age of seals, size and quotas are strictly enforced by the goverment. To get a licence to hunt unless you are a native is a near impossibility.

6. Observers" MAC, MASNA, AMDA come to mind

I am really interested in everyone's ideas as to how to make this workable.
Thank you for asking the questions, Rover. It helps me begin to formulate the plan. The answers to Rovers questions are at the end of each paragraph. Please take the time to read it carefully.

 

[Anonymous]

If the Manifesto was adopted by the representative present it would contain undertakings by industy to adopt the CDT with a time certain and pay for the random testing at their facilities by independent professional scientists. Who would pay for the testing as well as the third party validation? Specifically, "Industry" isn't good enough
A.....Why not. I understand but could be wrong, that the exporters pay a fee on a per fish basis for test performed. Who would pay for the test? Exporters or Importers? If exporters how do you force them when they are in another country?
I would expect that industry would immediately agree to say 10 of the 45 species of coral and fish on the proposed USL as a show of good faith and the rest would be subject to negotiations. Why? Who picks the ten? What happens to the fish that are already here that are on the list? How do we let the collectors know which ten to avoid?
A....The first ten would be chosen by the reps. A timeline would be put in place allowing word to get out to the fishers that industry (P/I exporters) would no longer purchase those fish from them. What reps? And what criteria would their decsions be based on?
Perhaps the opinions of outside experts like, Borneman, Michael and Fenner might be sought.
A training fund and budget would set up funded by industry with a reasonable timeline. We know there is a wealth of people willing and anxious to help. Again, your industry term is way to vague. Who sets up the fund? Who holds and controls the money? And you realize that you are suggesting that everyone suddenly holds hands with their competitors and sings Kum bay yah, don't you?
A.....The reps would hire someone to look after it for them. Perhaps an existing NGO. Whatever works. If the P/I exporters realize that the party is over unless they band together to clean up their act no singing will be necessary.
What reps? Are these reps elected or paid, or volunteer? Who governs the reps to keep them clean? You have to be specific, it isn't clear which side of the pond you are talking about.

The Participants.
1. People like myself who are prepared to blow the whistle on industry including experts in training, cyanide and the packaging/handling of fish and coral would represent reform. Do you really think you are going to tell anyone anything they don't already know? Do you really think this ia all a big secret that is just know coming to light? Do you really think that whistle hasn't already been blown?

A.....Yes, Yes and Yes

Why do you think that? Who do you think doesn't know about it that should?

2. Representatives from the appropriate Ministry in the Phillipines and Indonesia. The reps would have the political clout to go back to their respective govenments and tell them that their Marine Industy will be closed down unless certain steps are taken by them. Do you really think that their entire Marine Industry depends on pet fish? How do you plan on getting a rep from their government at the table? A phone call?

A.....No it is not the whole industry but a closure of the pet fish/coral/rock/dand industry would severely hurt a part of that industry. I would expect decision makers from P?I would be over here in flash trying to save those jobs and exports.

3. Representative from the US Government who are prepared to take whatever steps are necessary to close the industry down in the event that industry fails to act on the committments they will make. Who would this be? And how do you plan on getting the governmnet to agree to shut down an entire industry in a "reasonable timeline"?

A...The appropriate US Ministry will request a total embargo on Philippine and Indonesia coral/rock and fish until appropriate action is taken.

How do you propose to do this? Do you think the government is going to agree to ban or shut down AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY just because of your little whistle? Until you have some evidence to back up this part you have no teeth to anything else.

4. All the major importers/wholesalers or their agreed representatives. They would have the authority to sign the committments to be made by industry. They would explain to their 'members' the consequences of failure to adopt and follow through with their committments. They would fund all reforms. What incentive do they have for funding all reforms? Until you have proof that the government is going to shut down the industry they have no incentive to do anything, except provide what their customers want.

A....The incentive is the continuation of their business of importing fish and coral. The alternative is closure. I would say that is quite an incentive.

Again you have to show that closue is even a remote possibility first. I don't think you are even close to that

5. Members of the public including those who may be adverse to our hobby so that they can see reform happen or take appropriate steps if it fails. What do you mean if it fails? I thought the government would shut it down?

A....Who said anything about the government. Those adverse would include organizations like Greenpeace who would educate the publid and put pressure on the government to do something. An obvious example would be the Canadian seal hunt. As a result of Greenpeace and International boycott of all Canadian goods, the government began to regulate the industry. Now methods of killing, instruments of killing age of seals, size and quotas are strictly enforced by the goverment. To get a licence to hunt unless you are a native is a near impossibility.

6. Observers" MAC, MASNA, AMDA come to mind

 

[naesco]

If the Manifesto was adopted by the representative present it would contain undertakings by industy to adopt the CDT with a time certain and pay for the random testing at their facilities by independent professional scientists. Who would pay for the testing as well as the third party validation? Specifically, "Industry" isn't good enough
A.....Why not. I understand but could be wrong, that the exporters pay a fee on a per fish basis for test performed. Who would pay for the test? Exporters or Importers? If exporters how do you force them when they are in another country?
I would expect that industry would immediately agree to say 10 of the 45 species of coral and fish on the proposed USL as a show of good faith and the rest would be subject to negotiations. Why? Who picks the ten? What happens to the fish that are already here that are on the list? How do we let the collectors know which ten to avoid?
A....The first ten would be chosen by the reps. A timeline would be put in place allowing word to get out to the fishers that industry (P/I exporters) would no longer purchase those fish from them. What reps? And what criteria would their decsions be based on?
Perhaps the opinions of outside experts like, Borneman, Michael and Fenner might be sought.
A training fund and budget would set up funded by industry with a reasonable timeline. We know there is a wealth of people willing and anxious to help. Again, your industry term is way to vague. Who sets up the fund? Who holds and controls the money? And you realize that you are suggesting that everyone suddenly holds hands with their competitors and sings Kum bay yah, don't you?
A.....The reps would hire someone to look after it for them. Perhaps an existing NGO. Whatever works. If the P/I exporters realize that the party is over unless they band together to clean up their act no singing will be necessary.
What reps? Are these reps elected or paid, or volunteer? Who governs the reps to keep them clean? You have to be specific, it isn't clear which side of the pond you are talking about.

The Participants.
1. People like myself who are prepared to blow the whistle on industry including experts in training, cyanide and the packaging/handling of fish and coral would represent reform. Do you really think you are going to tell anyone anything they don't already know? Do you really think this ia all a big secret that is just know coming to light? Do you really think that whistle hasn't already been blown?

A.....Yes, Yes and Yes

Why do you think that? Who do you think doesn't know about it that should?

2. Representatives from the appropriate Ministry in the Phillipines and Indonesia. The reps would have the political clout to go back to their respective govenments and tell them that their Marine Industy will be closed down unless certain steps are taken by them. Do you really think that their entire Marine Industry depends on pet fish? How do you plan on getting a rep from their government at the table? A phone call?

A.....No it is not the whole industry but a closure of the pet fish/coral/rock/dand industry would severely hurt a part of that industry. I would expect decision makers from P?I would be over here in flash trying to save those jobs and exports.

3. Representative from the US Government who are prepared to take whatever steps are necessary to close the industry down in the event that industry fails to act on the committments they will make. Who would this be? And how do you plan on getting the governmnet to agree to shut down an entire industry in a "reasonable timeline"?

A...The appropriate US Ministry will request a total embargo on Philippine and Indonesia coral/rock and fish until appropriate action is taken.

How do you propose to do this? Do you think the government is going to agree to ban or shut down AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY just because of your little whistle? Until you have some evidence to back up this part you have no teeth to anything else.

4. All the major importers/wholesalers or their agreed representatives. They would have the authority to sign the committments to be made by industry. They would explain to their 'members' the consequences of failure to adopt and follow through with their committments. They would fund all reforms. What incentive do they have for funding all reforms? Until you have proof that the government is going to shut down the industry they have no incentive to do anything, except provide what their customers want.

A....The incentive is the continuation of their business of importing fish and coral. The alternative is closure. I would say that is quite an incentive.

Again you have to show that closue is even a remote possibility first. I don't think you are even close to that

5. Members of the public including those who may be adverse to our hobby so that they can see reform happen or take appropriate steps if it fails. What do you mean if it fails? I thought the government would shut it down?

A....Who said anything about the government. Those adverse would include organizations like Greenpeace who would educate the publid and put pressure on the government to do something. An obvious example would be the Canadian seal hunt. As a result of Greenpeace and International boycott of all Canadian goods, the government began to regulate the industry. Now methods of killing, instruments of killing age of seals, size and quotas are strictly enforced by the goverment. To get a licence to hunt unless you are a native is a near impossibility.

6. Observers" MAC, MASNA, AMDA come to mind

THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS.
The test would be paid to an independent approved laboratory on a per fish CDT basis by the exporter.

The first fish and coral on the USL would be obligate feeders like the cleaner wrasse and coral like dendro and goniopora. Everyone knows which top ten species should not be imported including you Rover.

The Reps would be representatives of the participants below. With the exception of any that might be providing services they would be unpaid. They would be North American based with representation from the exporters associations in P/I.

Who doesn't know but should know was your question. The General Public.
The General Public has no idea that a poison like cyanide is used to catch Nemos and Dorys, of the permanent damage cyanide does to the reef and all its inhabitants and the fact that these fish are knowingly brought into North America in violation of Federal Law and that nothing is done about it. They are the ones who don't know that should.
[/b]

The evidence is there. All you have to do is read the contents of the postings on this forum and do a random CDT on fish purchased. The general public will put pressure on the US government to act. Industry has NIL support from government or politicians or the hobby.

Is closure remotely possible you bet it is. Ask the Canadian Fur industry, the seal industry and the Forest Industry (old growth forests) Do you have any idea how heavily these industries are regulated today?

Why GREENPEACE??[/b]
When I originally thought of the Manifishto, I felt that at the first meeting of true reformers and industry, industry would be in denial and it would be a waste of time.
That in order to be effective, there must be transparency, democracy and openess. That is why I felt that a group adverse to industry would be a necessary participant.
However, the thought ocurred to me that that may not be a good idea for the first meeting. It would be better to see industry's willingness to do something.
What do you think?
These are my answers but I am looking for constructive input. Please continue your email, PM and telephone calls.
Thank you.

 

[DustinDorton]

If the regulations/reform/changes take place in the states what about the cyanide used to supply the rest of the world with fish?
If you divided the world you would get 3 major buyers. North/South America, Europe and Asia. Wouldnt only 1/3 of the problem be addressed by changing things in the US. Actually the US would be less than 1/3 of the problem because Asia has an extra market for cyanide caught fish (Live food fish trade).

I am not even going to speculate how much money is involved in each one of those thirds. Could regulation from the US alone be enough to force similar change in the other buyers? Are we just hoping that is going to happen?

Dustin

 

[naesco]

If the regulations/reform/changes take place in the states what about the cyanide used to supply the rest of the world with fish?
If you divided the world you would get 3 major buyers. North/South America, Europe and Asia. Wouldnt only 1/3 of the problem be addressed by changing things in the US. Actually the US would be less than 1/3 of the problem because Asia has an extra market for cyanide caught fish (Live food fish trade).

I am not even going to speculate how much money is involved in each one of those thirds. Could regulation from the US alone be enough to force similar change in the other buyers? Are we just hoping that is going to happen?

Dustin

As with many things, the USA is the leader. Certainly Europe will follow immediately. The other major player, Japan would be a big question mark IMO.
You raise a good point. But, as reefers we must ensure that our own industry reforms as by doing nothing we are part of the problem.

Also today I formally requested the support of the American Marine Dealers Association AMDA and MASNA as well.
We must all take a stand against the use of cyanide NOW.

 

[DustinDorton]

IMO, bottom line, going after regulation on the US side is not going to solve the problem with cyanide. You could only speculate that the European, and Asian markets would follow suit. IF they don't what will happen then?
You will never be able to make a difference in the cyanide food fish market by making changes to US aquarium fish rules.

Changing the rules on our end would be like turning our backs on the situation. A knee jerk reaction from the hobby just might cause a knee jerk reaction from the government.

Dustin

 

[naesco]

IMO, bottom line, going after regulation on the US side is not going to solve the problem with cyanide. You could only speculate that the European, and Asian markets would follow suit. IF they don't what will happen then?
You will never be able to make a difference in the cyanide food fish market by making changes to US aquarium fish rules.

Changing the rules on our end would be like turning our backs on the situation. A knee jerk reaction from the hobby just might cause a knee jerk reaction from the government.

Dustin

So the answer to the knee jerk reaction is for industry to reform itself which is the whole purpose of this thread. Industry will be given the opportunity of a last chance at reform.
If they don't, that government knee jerk might boot them out of business.
We can no longer turn our back on the problem.

 

[DustinDorton]

Who are you referring to as the "Industry"

Dustin

 

[Anonymous]

So the answer to the knee jerk reaction is for industry to reform itself which is the whole purpose of this thread. Industry will be given the opportunity of a last chance at reform.
If they don't, that government knee jerk might boot them out of business.
We can no longer turn our back on the problem.

To cut to the chase. There are two "components" to the Industry that we as American citizens have direct power to reform through government intervention. The wholesalers, through regualtion of what they can legally import, and the retailers, through regulation of what they can legally sell.

At the wholesaler level: If strict regulations are passed on what can and cannot be imported, you are setting up a customs nightmare. Every box will need to be opened and inspected, and every fish will need to be identified by the agents to ensure that no contraband is allowed through. Meanwhile all of the "legal" fish are sitting out on the tarmac.......

At the retailer level: You are setting up a logistical nightmare where many man hours are neccessary to visit every single shop in the country to make sure they aren't selling things they aren't supposed to. And that means money to pay them, and money to educate them.

In either case the time and expense will be far greater than simply shutting the entire US industry down. Which just means more cyanided fish for every one else, and the reefs are destroyed even faster.

THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS.
The test would be paid to an independent approved laboratory on a per fish CDT basis by the exporter.

How do you plan to get a foreign company to follow our rules? Who decided which fish get chucked in the blender? Who imposes the penalties if the fish puree doesn't pass?

The first fish and coral on the USL would be obligate feeders like the cleaner wrasse and coral like dendro and goniopora. Everyone knows which top ten species should not be imported including you Rover.

I don't agree. I think the view on which fish should be banned would be vastly different based on who you ask. And I would venture to say that goniopora lasts just as long in the average tank as anything else.

The Reps would be representatives of the participants below. With the exception of any that might be providing services they would be unpaid. They would be North American based with representation from the exporters associations in P/I.

I still don't understand who these "reps" are. Are they American or Philipino? Who are they working for?

Who doesn't know but should know was your question. The General Public.
The General Public has no idea that a poison like cyanide is used to catch Nemos and Dorys, of the permanent damage cyanide does to the reef and all its inhabitants and the fact that these fish are knowingly brought into North America in violation of Federal Law and that nothing is done about it. They are the ones who don't know that should.


The evidence is there. All you have to do is read the contents of the postings on this forum and do a random CDT on fish purchased. The general public will put pressure on the US government to act. Industry has NIL support from government or politicians or the hobby.

Is closure remotely possible you bet it is. Ask the Canadian Fur industry, the seal industry and the Forest Industry (old growth forests) Do you have any idea how heavily these industries are regulated today?


I somehow think that the Canadian government and the American government may not have the same opnion on what needs to be done. Until you are able to show the US Wholesalers that sweeping regulations or a complete shut down of the trade is imminent, I don't think they will pay much attention to you. And if such things are imminent I don't think they will need to hear it from you as they probably will already be acting to oppose it.
Why GREENPEACE??

When I originally thought of the Manifishto, I felt that at the first meeting of true reformers and industry, industry would be in denial and it would be a waste of time.
That in order to be effective, there must be transparency, democracy and openess. That is why I felt that a group adverse to industry would be a necessary participant.
However, the thought ocurred to me that that may not be a good idea for the first meeting. It would be better to see industry's willingness to do something.

I think here is a good place for you to start. See what kind of response you can get together. My other suggetion to you, is to go to your local city council and see if you couldn't make this work on a local scale. Then when you have a working model, it would be easier to take it up to the next level and eventually to the national and international one. Reform starts at home. :wink:


http://ptfea.org/direc.html

 

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have a breakdown by region of where ornamental marines go to - i.e. North America/South America , Europe, Asia , Oceana?

The term 'Industry' seems pretty nebulous I assume we are talking about the chain dealing with the North Am market for the most part? If so then is there a real blanket organization to oversee them all or represent them?

Is there a congrssional lobby for the Marine Ornamental trade?

What government agency has oversight at the Import / Export level and who at the retail level? Are there other agencies concerned with regards to transporting specimens?

Sorry for all the questions but I feel I could help contribute if I had a little more information from those that are familiar with who is in charge of what if anyone.

-Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Is there a congrssional lobby for the Marine Ornamental trade?

I'm not sure but I belive PIJAC (Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council) is as close as it gets.

What government agency has oversight at the Import / Export level and who at the retail level? Are there other agencies concerned with regards to transporting specimens?

Fish and Wildlife at the import level. Department of Natural resources and Department of Agriculture at the retail level, but it varies by state.