Is it time to blow the whistle on industry?

[Anonymous]

methinks plans require no reaction-actions do :wink:

get something accomplished, and i'm sure you'll get reactions aplenty-unsolicited, even

 

[JT]

Kalk, would you consider being one of the spokeman for industry when we are seeking industry's reaction to our plans?

OMG, first I thought that naesco was an extremist.. now I know he is simply insane.

 

[naesco]

REEForm

 

[naesco]

methinks plans require no reaction-actions do :wink:

get something accomplished, and i'm sure you'll get reactions aplenty-unsolicited, even

Thanks for your advise Vitz. Planning is important but action speaks for itself.
REEForm will make an announcement soon

 

[Anonymous]

I see from viewing your website that your company, Sea Dwelling Creatures is a wholesaler of fish located in Los Angeles.
Does your company presently import fish from either the Philippines and Indonesia or both?
Do you import them directly or through another party?

Another zinger, Naesco. You've made comments in this thread that show exacly how much you know about our industry and how far you'll actually get (no where with your current info base). Umm, yes, SDC imports fish from PI, many Naesco (Yup, there one of the MAJOR players Naesco), but any person who took 1 SECOND to learn the industry(as defined by Naesco) would know this. SDC has been talked about before in this forum, guess you were absent tthose days.

 

[naesco]

REEForm

 

[JT]

Does your company presently import fish from either the Philippines and Indonesia or both? Do you import them directly or through another party?

Umm, you've already had several phone calls with one of our owners, Eric Cohen.

Again, I ask for YOUR credentials Naesco. What makes you the "industry expert" to make you the "Reform Leader"? You appear to me, and many others, to be nothing more than a radical hobbyist who clearly knows NOTHING about how the "industry" works.

 

[naesco]

Does your company presently import fish from either the Philippines and Indonesia or both? Do you import them directly or through another party?

Umm, you've already had several phone calls with one of our owners, Eric Cohen.

Again, I ask for YOUR credentials Naesco. What makes you the "industry expert" to make you the "Reform Leader"? You appear to me, and many others, to be nothing more than a radical hobbyist who clearly knows NOTHING about how the "industry" works.

For the record, all discussions I have with industry people are private and confidential whether by phone, fax, PM or email as is the party to with whom I am communicating unless I have their permission.
I neither confirm nor deny communications were held with SDC or Eric Cohen.
REEForm



REEFform

 

[JT]

Firstly, please answer the questions if you have the authority to answer them.

Well, I want to know who I am talking with.

What's the matter naesco? Why are you afraid to write a short little biography about who you are and/or share your industry experience? Everyone else who is well known in the industry has their biography out there as public record. Most of us on here don't even know your name.

I have no qualms about sitting on the reform side of the fence, but I sure as hell want to know the people I am sitting next to.

 

[Dogfish Head]

You don't have to be a mining executive or a miner to see the damage caused to the environment by mining operations -- indeed they are the least likely to call attention to the damge their industry does. So get off this idea that only those who are fish merchants have anything worthwhile to say about saving the coral reefs from the impact of fish collecting!

 

[clarionreef]

Well, thats a good point.
The industry has tried to hide this for a long time yet a few in the industry were also the first to blow the whistle to the rest of the world about it to begin with.
While its true the industry has a lot of experience killing coral and ruining village fisheries and such....these are not credentials to be proud of.
A trade that doesn't want public outrage to shut it down should not act outrageously.
It is also true though that only seriously competent commercial collector/trainers can win over cyanide fisherman on a wholesale level and in rapid fire succession. This is commercial fishing school, plain and simple.
We need to start at the source and only in that way enable the other reforms to flow.
When confronted with an overflowing sink do you first reach for the faucet or the mop? Although this basic intelligence test has been failed by the industry, others have failed it as well.
Reeform needs to be one to get it right...in order to earn the next step.
Steve/Amda

 

[Anonymous]

ah

but neither glossing over the real issues with sugar coated pr, nor screaming for a shutdown of the trade are acceptable options, nor incessant one-upsmanship attempts at blame laying-these are all extreme ends of the spectrum that will lead to no productive good for all concerned-the fisherman and the retailers both :wink:

what's needed is a true gathering together of those who can do the field work, those who can gather the funding for the practical work needed, and those who can 'watchdog' the pr folk-to achieve the end goal in as fast. efficient, and effective means possible, to end this industry's contribution to the killing of the reefs

once we clean our own house of wrongdoing, mebbe we can then move on to applying the pressure, and offering the practical solutions to the other players of other industries, as well

a classmate of mine, in his high school yearbook qiuote, had the following bobby clark-ism:

'leadership is going out and doing it' :wink:

 

[dizzy]

Realizing there is a problem and pointing it out is the easy part. The best long term solutions will come from those whose livelihood is dependent on getting it right. I suspect the fishers themselves probably know what is needed to get them to stop using cyanide. Earn their trust and you will find the answers that you seek.

 

[naesco]

So, with this post I would like to end the discussions on this forum for a short while. I will pop in now and than but please understand it is impossible for me to answer all posts. If there is something specific, PM me and I will PM you by return. Because of the overwhelming interest in REEForm, we have to back up our words with action and that is very time consuming for everyone.

We are setting up a website in the near future at www.reeform org. to educate hobbyists as has been suggested.

We will be meeting with Philippine industry and their government.

We will be preparing a multi-media education programme for hobbyists highlighting the damage cyanide does to the reefs and its inhabitants.
It will also focus on the cost to the hobbyist of cyanide poisoned fish.
It will educate the reefer on how they can take affirmative action in their own community by raising the cyanide issue as was suggested
We will be meeting with MAC, MASNA, IMA, AMDA and other organizations to discuss where we can help eachother meet each organizations goals as was suggested.

I want to thank everyone who took the time to post their ideas, their concerns and most importantly their advice.

Picture in your minds eye the most beautiful islands of the Philippines and Indonesia.
Picture their reefs free of cyanide. Colourful; alive with life;
Nothing will stand in the way of achieving that picture. Nothing!

REEForm

 

[mkirda]

Nothing will stand in the way of achieving that picture. Nothing!

Not Global warming?
Not siltation?
Not blast fishing?
Not up-stream deforestation?
Not food fishermen?


Wait... This doesn't involve magnets and ceramics now, does it?

 

[flameangel1]

We will be preparing a multi-media education programme for hobbyists

Methinks the "leader" should open his eyes and learn BEFORE he tries teaching anyone, ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!

 

[MaryHM]

So, with this post I would like to end the discussions on this forum for a short while. I will pop in now and than but please understand it is impossible for me to answer all posts.

Translation: "Uh oh. The heat in the kitchen has turned up significantly today. I better make an excuse and high tail it out of here since I have no educated response to the questions and comments that have been posted. Better to ignore the concerns of everyone than look like a fool."

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk, would you consider being one of the spokeman for industry when we are seeking industry's reaction to our plans?

OMG, first I thought that naesco was an extremist.. now I know he is simply insane.

HeY! come over to my thread if you want to PLay ....with the big boys.. :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk, Not only do I believe there is 60% mortality on average within 3 days on the east coast (35% in midwest, 30% DOA-DAA on the west coast), I published the information in my paper Net-Caught Cyanide-Free (I believe I sent you a copy). This information is based on a telephone survey of over 300 retailers conducted by Frank Lallo (one of the co-authors on the paper). It also is consistent with a lot of other information I have gathered over the past 20 years (including employees of importers noted for dealing in cyanide-caught fish confessing to me the appalling mortality of fishes in their facilities).

Peter Rubec

Hey Anyone else want to reply to this crap....? No retailer could operate at 60% loss within three days........No exporter .no retailer.........its total crap...........No wholesaler I know of loses sixty percent EVER! unless the shipment is lost or cold /heat etc.........You cant go on beleiving this nonsense.....................And why in the world would these people order again week after week year after year ..............think about it ?{85% of all fish come from PI}

 

[MaryHM]

Gotta agree with Kalk on this one. It makes absolutely no sense that there is 60% DOA across the board or on average for the east coast. Most of my shipments go east of the Mississippi and the customers gripe if they have 6% DOA. If they were used to 60%, you think they'd be calling and beating down my door to get a 6% DOA!!! Maybe those figures are from transshipped fish- that would make a little more sense.