Public Letter to Ferdinand Cruz

[Jaime Baquero]

Mr. Ferdinand Cruz,

I am aware that you have read the thread "Philippines, net training, key players and relevant information" posted by JaimeBaquero in this forum.
So far the only response from you was your comment posted by M. Kirda, I quote, " People who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". This Mr. Cruz is not an acceptable answer to the questions. You MUST do much better than that.

As you know, there are two e-mails sent by you to N. America, one in april 7 and the other april 9, 2003. Those e-mails are a kind of update of your activities in the Philippines regarding the net training and trade of marine ornamentals. Those e-mails are relevant and provide key information that could help the readers to understand what your activities are and clarify what is your position regarding NGOs such as MAC.

During the past months some participants in this forum, as well as stakeholders of the industry in the Philippines have been wondering about your relationship with Imperial or another exporters in the Philippines. Until I got those e-mails I didn't know that neither. Your silence is forcing me to disclose what you said about it. According to the e-mail sent by you April 9,2003 you stated, I quote "
I really do not care if others think that I am receiving something from these companies. People have the right to live but the funny thing is that I heve not received any money....... I have bigger fish to fry. End of quote.

So my question to you is : Are those "bigger fish to fry" related to the trade of ornamental fish?

In the same e-mail there is another statement that needs clarification. I quote "I was willing to make a deal with the devil if it was needed" end of quote. This statement is related to the contact you established with other exporter in the Philippines. Could you give the readers a bit of background so they can understand your concerns.

I know that you have been traveling to different sites where net training took place. Your goal is to divert as many fish as possible to exporters facilities you are working with. You are controling the collectors by "suggesting them" where to divert their fish. Are you using strong arm tactics to support yourself by setting yourself as an obligate middleman?

Mr. Cruz, your role in this whole process is not clear. You have been working hard to get the fishers in revolt against MAC. My personal opinion is that your main goal is to undermine MAC initiatives by keeping collectors away from MAC certified exporters. On the other hand and according to a recent post I read in this forum you were having conversations with MAC, I guess to form part of their team.

Are you going to make your mind? You can not be an Anti-MAC and Pro-MAC at the same time.

Sincerely

Jaime Baquero

 

[mkirda]

Jaime,

Rest assured, Ferdie is writing a response.

A quote from his last e-mail to me:

"Believe me I find it hard to write in English. I dread it and keep postponing writing until the last minute."

It is a pity that someone put you up to this. It came out whom it was...
IOW, We know who holds your leash.

My own observation: Ferdie is torn between saving face by attacking you two publicly or letting it go and continuing to convert cyanide fishermen into net-caught.

I have to wonder why it even matters to you and your leash holder what Ferdie does. It isn't like the areas he is working in are going to be MAC-certified anytime soon, so none of these fish could fed into the MAC pipeline. Why do you (and your leash holder) CARE?

Could it be because a BETTER PRODUCT is being produced?
Could it be to ELIMINATE COMPETITION from other NET-CAUGHT SOURCES?

Having heard a lot of the history behind PPP, I'm not sure why you care to cast any stones anyway. People here are not familiar with that story.
It might just come out how much it set back reform efforts, Jaime.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

Until I got those e-mails I didn't know that neither. Your silence is forcing me to disclose what you said about it. According to the e-mail sent by you April 9,2003 you stated, I quote "
I really do not care if others think that I am receiving something from these companies. People have the right to live but the funny thing is that I heve not received any money....... I have bigger fish to fry. End of quote.

The funniest thing is the fact that you gloss over the answer to your question, which is embedded in your quotes... He clearly and succinctly says "I have not received any money."

Glad you cleared that up for everyone, Jaime...

I'm just wondering how you missed it?

In the same e-mail there is another statement that needs clarification. I quote "

I was willing to make a deal with the devil if it was needed" end of quote. This statement is related to the contact you established with other exporter in the Philippines. Could you give the readers a bit of background so they can understand your concerns.

I have already explained this to you and everyone else that would listen, Jaime. Ferdinand distanced himself from ALL MAC-certified exporters, including his closest ally, Marivi. He talked to a lot of exporters, and finally made a deal with Imperial. Initially, they wanted him to develop a couple of areas for them exclusively. He'd be on payroll. He refused this offer, then they agreed to a situation where Imperial would donate money for netting and agree to pay a better rate for fish. Ferdie put them onto a list of exporters he recommended (which still included Marivi, BTW), and the collectors had their own decisions on whom to sell their fish to. The collectors did sell to Imperial, and a few others. There is more to the story that Ferdie will tell soon.

I know that you have been traveling to different sites where net training took place. Your goal is to divert as many fish as possible to exporters facilities you are working with. You are controling the collectors by "suggesting them" where to divert their fish. Are you using strong arm tactics to support yourself by setting yourself as an obligate middleman?

Heh. His goal is to convert all cyanide collectors into net-caught collectors.
Noble, ain't it? Especially when you don't get any money for it...

Mr. Cruz, your role in this whole process is not clear. You have been working hard to get the fishers in revolt against MAC. My personal opinion is that your main goal is to undermine MAC initiatives by keeping collectors away from MAC certified exporters. On the other hand and according to a recent post I read in this forum you were having conversations with MAC, I guess to form part of their team.

Are you going to make your mind? You can not be an Anti-MAC and Pro-MAC at the same time.

Sincerely

Jaime Baquero

Jaime,

This is one of the craziest accusations I have heard... How can Ferdie undermine the MAC? He is not working in areas where MAC is. The collectors he is working with have never spoken to the MAC. Their fish cannot be MAC-certified. So how is MAC harmed by keeping non-MAC fish out of MAC-certified facilites? This is your accusation, isn't it? That MAC is being harmed by Ferdie because he is sending the good fish to non-MAC certified exporters?

If this is the case, then why isn't MAC being proactive and trying to actively recruit Imperial to become MAC-certified? Or secretly following him to these areas, then poaching it and certifying them? That would make far more sense tactically than trying again and again and again to destroy Ferdie's credibility and character publicly...

The whole argument about strong-arm tactics is a straw man argument, Jaime. IF Ferdie was in Bohol burning down the houses of the Batasan Island fishermen, or threatening them in some way to ship all their fish to another non-MAC certified exporter, then maybe you could argue this. However, you offer only innuendo, not any hard, concrete proof, because, frankly, you (and your leash holder) ain't got any. The entire idea is silly. Wacky. Where does he come up with these ideas?

Anyway, you will have your public response shortly, within the next couple of days. And say hello to your leash holder.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Bryan Thompson]

Can you all please stop this he said she said pissing match. This is getting very old. Just admit that you don't see eye to eye.

Bryan

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Until I got those e-mails I didn't know that neither. Your silence is forcing me to disclose what you said about it. According to the e-mail sent by you April 9,2003 you stated, I quote "
I really do not care if others think that I am receiving something from these companies. People have the right to live but the funny thing is that I heve not received any money....... I have bigger fish to fry. End of quote.

The funniest thing is the fact that you gloss over the answer to your question, which is embedded in your quotes... He clearly and succinctly says "I have not received any money."

Glad you cleared that up for everyone, Jaime...

I'm just wondering how you missed it?

In the same e-mail there is another statement that needs clarification. I quote "

I was willing to make a deal with the devil if it was needed" end of quote. This statement is related to the contact you established with other exporter in the Philippines. Could you give the readers a bit of background so they can understand your concerns.

I have already explained this to you and everyone else that would listen, Jaime. Ferdinand distanced himself from ALL MAC-certified exporters, including his closest ally, Marivi. He talked to a lot of exporters, and finally made a deal with Imperial. Initially, they wanted him to develop a couple of areas for them exclusively. He'd be on payroll. He refused this offer, then they agreed to a situation where Imperial would donate money for netting and agree to pay a better rate for fish. Ferdie put them onto a list of exporters he recommended (which still included Marivi, BTW), and the collectors had their own decisions on whom to sell their fish to. The collectors did sell to Imperial, and a few others. There is more to the story that Ferdie will tell soon.

I know that you have been traveling to different sites where net training took place. Your goal is to divert as many fish as possible to exporters facilities you are working with. You are controling the collectors by "suggesting them" where to divert their fish. Are you using strong arm tactics to support yourself by setting yourself as an obligate middleman?

Heh. His goal is to convert all cyanide collectors into net-caught collectors.
Noble, ain't it? Especially when you don't get any money for it...

Mr. Cruz, your role in this whole process is not clear. You have been working hard to get the fishers in revolt against MAC. My personal opinion is that your main goal is to undermine MAC initiatives by keeping collectors away from MAC certified exporters. On the other hand and according to a recent post I read in this forum you were having conversations with MAC, I guess to form part of their team.

Are you going to make your mind? You can not be an Anti-MAC and Pro-MAC at the same time.

Sincerely

Jaime Baquero

Jaime,

This is one of the craziest accusations I have heard... How can Ferdie undermine the MAC? He is not working in areas where MAC is. The collectors he is working with have never spoken to the MAC. Their fish cannot be MAC-certified. So how is MAC harmed by keeping non-MAC fish out of MAC-certified facilites? This is your accusation, isn't it? That MAC is being harmed by Ferdie because he is sending the good fish to non-MAC certified exporters?

If this is the case, then why isn't MAC being proactive and trying to actively recruit Imperial to become MAC-certified? Or secretly following him to these areas, then poaching it and certifying them? That would make far more sense tactically than trying again and again and again to destroy Ferdie's credibility and character publicly...

The whole argument about strong-arm tactics is a straw man argument, Jaime. IF Ferdie was in Bohol burning down the houses of the Batasan Island fishermen, or threatening them in some way to ship all their fish to another non-MAC certified exporter, then maybe you could argue this. However, you offer only innuendo, not any hard, concrete proof, because, frankly, you (and your leash holder) ain't got any. The entire idea is silly. Wacky. Where does he come up with these ideas?

Anyway, you will have your public response shortly, within the next couple of days. And say hello to your leash holder.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Mike,

I DO NOT buy any of your sweet explanaitions. You are not there, you DO NOT KNOW what this guy is really doing. I know more than you think about some of the behind the scenes moves. I'll wait for Mr. Cruz response. I am pesimist I don't think I'll get the truth.

Seems that you have lots of experience with leash holders. Were you traumatized?

 

[mkirda]

Seems that you have lots of experience with leash holders. Were you traumatized?

Jaime,

I have no experience at all with a leash unless you count walking my parent's dog.
I just don't like to see the reputation of someone whom I respect greatly get dragged through the mud and maligned with false innuendo.

Respectfully leash-less,
Mike Kirda

 

[MaryHM]

Jaime,

I'm going to ask you a question, and I would really appreciate an answer.

I order from 3 Philippine suppliers- Aquarium Habitat (MAC certified), Imperial Marine, and a PTFEA exporter. Ferdinand knows this. Never once has he asked me to only buy from a particular exporter, not buy from a particular exporter, etc... The only thing he has asked me to do is support as many of the net caught exporters as I can.That's it. He is the person who introduced me to Aquarium Habitat, and he is the person who introduced me to Imperial. If I miss ordering from Imperial, he doesn't ask me why. I do cc him on some of the quality issues I periodically have with Imperial so he can help to correct them. Now for the question. Taking into consideration what I have just said, and the abstract accusations you keep leveling at Ferdinand, and knowing that I am one of Ferdinand's biggest supporters- can you explain why he never gets involved with my business decisions concerning which exporter to use???

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36673

 

[clarionreef]

Hey Mike,
If MAC wanted to use a chain-dog to trash reformers, why not choose a rottwieller or a pit bull instead of this impotent, yapping pekinese?
Perhaps hes just trying to impress and ingratiate himself with them and get a job.
I think MAC should distance themselves from the twin loonies of Jaime and Naesco for their own good asap.
Sincerely, Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Jaime,

I'm going to ask you a question, and I would really appreciate an answer.

I order from 3 Philippine suppliers- Aquarium Habitat (MAC certified), Imperial Marine, and a PTFEA exporter. Ferdinand knows this. Never once has he asked me to only buy from a particular exporter, not buy from a particular exporter, etc... The only thing he has asked me to do is support as many of the net caught exporters as I can.That's it. He is the person who introduced me to Aquarium Habitat, and he is the person who introduced me to Imperial. If I miss ordering from Imperial, he doesn't ask me why. I do cc him on some of the quality issues I periodically have with Imperial so he can help to correct them. Now for the question. Taking into consideration what I have just said, and the abstract accusations you keep leveling at Ferdinand, and knowing that I am one of Ferdinand's biggest supporters- can you explain why he never gets involved with my business decisions concerning which exporter to use???

Mary,

Is simple. He is very smart.

J.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Hey Mike,
If MAC wanted to use a chain-dog to trash reformers, why not choose a rottwieller or a pit bull instead of this impotent, yapping pekinese?
Perhaps hes just trying to impress and ingratiate himself with them and get a job.
I think MAC should distance themselves from the twin loonies of Jaime and Naesco for their own good asap.
Sincerely, Steve

You are trashing yourself R.

 

[MaryHM]

Geez Jaime. I really do feel sorry for you. And I'm not being sarcastic or a smarta$$. I'm serious.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Geez Jaime. I really do feel sorry for you. And I'm not being sarcastic or a smarta$$. I'm serious.

Gees Mary,

I am serious, he knows how to play his cards. Please do not feel sorry for my, I am doing what is needed and only time will tell you that.
J.

 

[MaryHM]

How exactly is he being smart by not asking me to buy from certain suppliers only? If his goal is what you say- to build up Imperial for his own profit- then why isn't he pushing Imperial on me?

 

[Jaime Baquero]

How exactly is he being smart by not asking me to buy from certain suppliers only? If his goal is what you say- to build up Imperial for his own profit- then why isn't he pushing Imperial on me?

Geez Mary,

You don't get it. You are not the only buyer Imperial has., otherwise they'll be broken by now.

 

[MaryHM]

They sell to Hong Kong, but they've been doing that for quite a while. Who else in the states are they selling to? Who in Europe? Are you saying Ferdinand is pressuring other importers to buy from Imperial?

 

[Jaime Baquero]

They sell to Hong Kong, but they've been doing that for quite a while. Who else in the states are they selling to? Who in Europe? Are you saying Ferdinand is pressuring other importers to buy from Imperial?

Geez Mary,

I know for a fact that Mr. Cruz has as many collectors as he wishes(all collectors trained under IMA-MAC and Haribon programs) diverting their fish to Imperial and the other exporter, the one with which Mr. Cruz"was willing to make a deal with the devil if it was needed". This exporter moves lots of fish to the States. This is not only about Imperial but also other exporter/s linked to F.C activities. Do you believe that he is not getting any money for all the trouble? Who pays for his gas and survival? I know is none of my business, but he must have an income coming from somewhere within the trade. I am still wondering about Mr. Cruz statement I quote " I have bigger fish to fry". There are many doubts.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

They sell to Hong Kong, but they've been doing that for quite a while. Who else in the states are they selling to? Who in Europe? Are you saying Ferdinand is pressuring other importers to buy from Imperial?

Geez Mary,

I know for a fact that Mr. Cruz has as many collectors as he wishes(all collectors trained under IMA-MAC and Haribon programs) diverting their fish to Imperial and the other exporter, the one with which Mr. Cruz"was willing to make a deal with the devil if it was needed". This exporter moves lots of fish to the States. This is not only about Imperial but also other exporter/s linked to F.C activities. Do you believe that he is not getting any money for all the trouble? Who pays for his gas and survival? I know is none of my business, but he must have an income coming from somewhere within the trade. I am still wondering about Mr. Cruz statement I quote " I have bigger fish to fry". There are many doubts.

Mary,

It is of my business if Mr. Cruz is making money by taking advantage of the fact that he knows where the collectors are, and "having them diverting' their fish to exporters facilities in the Philippines linked to personal or family business. Nobody knows what Mr. Cruz tactics are, only himself.

Fish collectors are very vulnerable and the industry has been taking advantage of them for decades. Giving them a few more pesos for their fishes without doubt helps. Nets, training and environmental education are all tools, these and many more are needed to turn things around.

[/b]

 

[Jaime Baquero]

They sell to Hong Kong, but they've been doing that for quite a while. Who else in the states are they selling to? Who in Europe? Are you saying Ferdinand is pressuring other importers to buy from Imperial?

Geez Mary,

I know for a fact that Mr. Cruz has as many collectors as he wishes(all collectors trained under IMA-MAC and Haribon programs) diverting their fish to Imperial and the other exporter, the one with which Mr. Cruz"was willing to make a deal with the devil if it was needed". This exporter moves lots of fish to the States. This is not only about Imperial but also other exporter/s linked to F.C activities. Do you believe that he is not getting any money for all the trouble? Who pays for his gas and survival? I know is none of my business, but he must have an income coming from somewhere within the trade. I am still wondering about Mr. Cruz statement I quote " I have bigger fish to fry". There are many doubts.

Mary,

It is of my business if Mr. Cruz is making money by taking advantage of the fact that he knows where the collectors are, and "having them diverting' their fish to exporters facilities in the Philippines linked to personal or family business. Nobody knows what Mr. Cruz tactics are, only himself.

Fish collectors are very vulnerable and the industry has been taking advantage of them for decades. Giving them a few more pesos for their fishes without doubt helps. Nets, training and environmental education are all tools, these and many more are needed to turn things around.

[/b]

Mary,

Wouldn't you like to know what does mean, I quote " I have bigger fish to fry" ? This was one of Mr. Cruz statement in one of the famous e-mails. I am relating "those bigger fish to fry" to the trade of ornamentals. After all Mr. Cruz knows many things about the ornamental fish business.

 

[MaryHM]

Jaime,

Who knows what "bigger fish to fry" means, especially since you absolutely refuse to send me the email so I can make sure we're talking about the same thing. I have asked you over and over and over for it, and still haven't received it. I can only assume it is because you're afraid someone will put the comments you've pulled out into their true context and make you look silly. So what if Ferdinand is making money via the trade? I have no proof that he is or isn't, and I could really care less. All I care about is that he is training collectors, handing out the netting material, giving those collectors the option of selling to exporters who are dedicated to paying more for net caught fish, and giving me the names of those exporters so I can deal with them. What in the hell is wrong with that???? Honest to god, Jaime. It's ok for you if someone sits behind a desk in Hawaii pushing papers around about the industry and collecting a 6 figure salary, but it's somehow suspect if you think someone in the field who is actually doing something and GETTING RESULTS might possibly be making some money off of it?? PUH-LEASE. You need to get your priorities straight.

Nobody knows what Mr. Cruz tactics are, only himself.

You're exactly right about that one. So why do you insist on trying to come up with ridiculous, unfounded accusations against him? When you have some hard PROOF, come back to me and talk. Until then, I'll leave you to stew in your jealousy or let you continue to be the mouthpiece for someone behind the scenes who doesn't have the guts to come forward themselves- whichever is the case for you.