A review and discussion on the research of Dr. Peter Rubec

[mkirda]

John,

Your previous sentence was worded in such a way that it appeared that MAC had pulled the ISE test out of the running, and that Merck was not including it in its testing of the various tests...

I am glad that this was not the case. Thanks for the clarification.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[PeterIMA]

John, Thanks for the clarification. Your earlier posting implied that Merck had already eliminiated the ISE CDT method (presumably in favor or their colorimetric test). I assume that a report will be produced documenting every method that was compared and/or evaluated.

Peter Rubec

 

[mkirda]

MAC is interested in having BFAR administer the most accurate and reliable CDT as approved by Merck regardless of what CDT it is.

Thanks for the clarification, John.

As an aside, what is up with PHPBB?

I responded to this earlier today, as did Peter, both saying the same thing, essentially... (Thanks for the clarification...)

When I saw the post, phpBB showed my post as being on Page 9 of 8.
Peter's showed up the same way...

Now, both posts are gone... Am curious what will happen with this one now...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

Interestingly, those two posts now showed up again, where on the forum page, it showed Page 8 as the last page...

 

[Anonymous]

Wasn't me!

 

[Anonymous]

Dr. Rubec,

You must have done some cursory review of the Lallo mortality numbers prior to publishing them in order to feel comfortable with them. Could you provide us with some of your summary numbers that you used to draw your conclusions and generate the overall mortality numbers?

Sincerely,
Lee Morey

 

[PeterIMA]

Lee,
I find it somewhat vexing that you continue to confuse (or deliberately obfuscate) my estimates concerning cumulative mortality (published in 1986, 1987, and 1991) with the more recent study done by Frank Lallo in 1997 (cited in my Net-Caught Cyanide-Free paper in 2001). They are separate information.

Frank did not calculate cumulative mortality rates. His study was based on interviewing retailers. The regional percentages are averages at the retail level. They do not represent cumulative mortality. Frank did not determine the numbers of fish that died at earlier steps of the chain. He obtained information on the numbers of fish DOA+DAA at the retail level in three regions of the USA. For most of the stores he collected information from at least 25 shipments. This has been clearly explained in previous postings.

Frank has decided that he has posted enough information to demonstrate that he did a quantitative survey. He has provided information on how it was collected. It does not serve any purpose for him to continue to post futher data. It will be published after we have finished analyzing it.

From my perspective, Frank's data confirms the information that I had gathered previously. Mortality rates in the trade are excessive.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

Peter,

This is too important a topic to me to play games with. I'm trying to understand the ramifications of the mortality numbers in the overall context of the ethics of even having an ornamental trade. Frank Lallo's numbers as well as your numbers.

Please understand that I do not have your 1986, 1987, and 1991 papers in hand. I only have your 2001 "Cyanide-free net-caught..." paper which quotes from your earlier works and the Lallo study. Presumably, you incorporated the Lallo reference because it collaborated the retailer mortality estimates you used in the '86, '87, '91 papers to come up with a 70%-80%+ cumulative (reef to aquarium) mortality number? Since you appearently didn't have the Lallo numbers in '86-'91 how did you estimate retailer mortality?

Perhaps I shouldn't have posted my questions in this thread because it does have a notedly argumentative tone. Perhaps I should have started a new thread to discuss overall mortality in cyanide captured fish as opposed to net-caught fish which is the topic that I really wanted to segue to.

Sincerely,
-Lee

 

[PeterIMA]

Lee, We already had a protracted discussion about mortality rates. I suggest you search the earlier threads. If you want copies of the earlier papers then ask me to mail them to you. I happen to be very busy at the moment. I don't feel I need to repeat what was already posted just because you didn't read them.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

Others views of Jaime who know him, check this page:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... ht=#302778