Ferdinand Cruz coming to Chicago, Oct. 18th

[mkirda]

Greetings, all.

I just received word from Ferdinand: He has accepted our club's invitation to speak at our October 18th meeting.

Title: "Legitimizing ornamental fish collection in the Philippines:
Aiming towards a Community-based approach"

For those of you who do not know, Ferdinand Cruz is a field trainer in the Philippines. Formerly with the Marine Aquarium Council, he has been working with local governments on formally opening up marine ornamental fish collection areas and conducting net trainings. Ferdinand is on the front lines in the reform movement in the Philippines and has firsthand knowledge of the industry and the cyanide trade.

Also speaking: Sanjay Joshi.

Metal halide Lighting: Recent Results on Lamps and Reflectors

Sanjay Joshi is currently professor of Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering at Penn State University. He has been a reef addict since 1992, and currently keeps 3 reefs at home 55G, 60G and a 180G SPS dominated reef. In addition he co-manages the 500G aquarium at Penn State. He has published several articles in magazines such as Marine Fish and Reef Annual, and Aquarium Frontiers, Aquarium Fish Monthly, and been an invited speaker at several marine aquarium society meetings.

I'm quite excited about this program.
Two of my favorite topics in the same meeting!

More as soon as things get finalized...

Regards.
Mike Kirda[/b]

 

[My Hairy Ass]

All hail the great God Ferdinand, he who will single handedly save the reefs!!

Hail Hail!!

 

[mkirda]

All hail the great God Ferdinand, he who will single handedly save the reefs!!

Hail Hail!!

Wrong God, Mr. Ass. The God that will singlehandedly save the reefs is NAESCO.

Hope that clears up your religious confusion.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

bump

 

[mkirda]

bump

 

[jbash]

Latest info at http://www.cmas.net Sanjay starts promptly at 1pm, Ferdinand at 3. Note we are asking for a $5 donation from nonmembers

 

[dizzy]

So how did it go? Was there a good turnout? Is the hand netting getting into the right hands?

 

[jbash]

Yes, good turnout and netting seems to be getting to the right people. I learned alot more about netting and Ferdinand's take on the whole thing is a little different than everyone elses. Even he and Steve Robinson have different analysis of cost/benefit of using cyanide, dangers of recidivism (going back to using cyanide), etc.

I forgot to get an exact count but it was the most people I've seen in the room at least since Eric B was here. Hopefully Mike Kirda will chime iin with some info (both attendance and substance of talk). Mike managed to videotape the presentation, hopefully that will come out well!

I could post some more about what Ferdinand said but have to run for now...

jim b

 

[mkirda]

So how did it go? Was there a good turnout? Is the hand netting getting into the right hands?

Mitch,

I think it went quite well.
We had around 60 people come for Sanjay's talk, and at least 30 were still there for Ferdie's talk.

I found it quite useful as it helped to define some few things that were unclear. EASI's approach is comprehensive, and more village-focused.
These are aspects that I endorse completely.

Ferdinand was also quite forthcoming in pointing out mistakes- It particular, he spoke about village coordinators who became more exploitive than the pre-existing middlemen were. Clearly, it was an unexpected outcome. So the affected barangay and fishermen's association scraped the entire system, and have appointed someone from within the barangay to handle some of the duties, with the association leader handling some of the other duties.

It was refreshing to have problems pointed out, along with potential solution already being implemented.

All in all, a great talk IMO, and it helped not only the attending hobbyists, but exposed Ferdinand to the end users of the fish from the Philippines. I know he found it most enlightening.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

. EASI's approach is comprehensive, and more village-focused.

So who/what is "EASI" and how does their approach differ from MAC? Are they going to offer certification? Are they associated with any exporter or exporter group? Are they just a bunch of net trainers or are they going to offer the whole package (help with handling/holding issues, do sustainability studies, CDTs, oversee fisheries quality, etc.)?

Also did Ferdie have anything to say about the publicly donated nets from the MSI project? Are the fruits of the nets getting to the U.S. consumer yet?

Sincerely,
-Lee

 

[mkirda]

. EASI's approach is comprehensive, and more village-focused.

So who/what is "EASI" and how does their approach differ from MAC? Are they going to offer certification? Are they associated with any exporter or exporter group? Are they just a bunch of net trainers or are they going to offer the whole package (help with handling/holding issues, do sustainability studies, CDTs, oversee fisheries quality, etc.)?

EASI has no public documents at this point. They are still a work in progress.
However, the talk did address the approach. I do not recall the word 'certification' or "CDT" being used.
Ferdinand did outline the whole package.
He also mentioned that he is working with a group of exporters- no formal public group at this point, and he did not mention any of the exporter names publicly as I recall.

Also did Ferdie have anything to say about the publicly donated nets from the MSI project? Are the fruits of the nets getting to the U.S. consumer yet?

Sincerely,
-Lee

In a word, yes and yes.
You can expect more on this publicly by the end of the year, I think.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[jbash]

I got the impression that the net caught fish were going to Europe and China. (I didn't really understand China as I wouldn't expect high prices there, I've heard before that Europe is a more lucrative market). Ferdinand did acknowledge the net donations and was very grateful for the netting. This is a particular kind of netting that they couldn't get, and differs in use from the monofilament netting that some locals were already using.

BTW, looks like the next need is for plastic jars to hold the fish (as opposed to plastic bags used by others). Marty and I were ready to start sending our PB jars but Mike & Ferdinand indicated that shipping makes this unrealistic. EASI needs to find a good source for the jars in bulk and then will need donations, if I understood correctly.

Changing the subject a bit, does anyone know what Ferdinand does for a living now? Since he and everyone else in EASI is volunteering their time, as I understand it, I'm amazed that he can spend all this time on training locals to use nets.

jim b

 

[dizzy]

So who/what is "EASI" and how does their approach differ from MAC?
-Lee

Perhaps I can help a little here. Ferdie was a guest at the last AMDA BOD meeting. I also called and spoke with him on the phone yesterday. EASI is a Filipino NGO. Somehow the concept of Filipinos having a strong say in their future just seems right to me. The BOD of EASI is made up at least in part of Filipino environmental lawyers. EASI is apparently doing more than just net training. They are also establishing no take or no touch zones as sort of preliminary MPAs. I believe EASI is working to get certain areas re-opened to collecting if it is done in a sustainable manner. While they may be a little less strict on the paperwork, EASI seems genuinely interested in promoting sustainable harvest of marine organisms. Ferdinand also mentioned that they are working with LGUs and that women are being trained as collectors.

IMO it sounded like EASI is doing a lot of the ground work that can be used to the benefit of the MAC. IMO the MAC should welcome this help and not view it as competition. I believe Ferdie is being helped financially by his family. He did mention working with the culture of food fish as a means of supporting himself while he trys to help the fishers. Perhaps Steve, Rover, or Mike K. can add to this. I don't know about anyone else, but I like the concept of Filipinos controlling their own destiny.

 

[mkirda]

I got the impression that the net caught fish were going to Europe and China. (I didn't really understand China as I wouldn't expect high prices there, I've heard before that Europe is a more lucrative market). Ferdinand did acknowledge the net donations and was very grateful for the netting. This is a particular kind of netting that they couldn't get, and differs in use from the monofilament netting that some locals were already using.

Jim,

As a clarification, at the time of this section, he narrowed things down from a group of exporters to a single exporter. This exporter, whom he did not name, sends out most of its fish to Europe and Asia. The bulk of the Asian-bound fish end up in China.

He did not elaborate on the others.

As far as the netting goes, there is a huge difference in barrier netting and the netting we did send. Ferdinand has been fashioning two types of nets with the net-fund netting, both hand nets and butterfly nets. (Butterfly nets were going to be shown in the video that didn't work during his presentation...)

I've sent you an off-list e-mail on the other question.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[jbash]

I forgot to hit "submit" after editing my last post. That was moments after I wrote it but I suspect it is confusing now that is has changed. Here is what I added:

BTW, looks like the next need is for plastic jars to hold the fish (as opposed to plastic bags used by others). Marty and I were ready to start sending our PB jars but Mike & Ferdinand indicated that shipping makes this unrealistic. EASI needs to find a good source for the jars in bulk and then will need donations, if I understood correctly. The villages use hot nails to melt holes in the jars and store the fish that way rather than in plastic bags until ready to send to exporter (when they switch the fish to bags). If I understodd this correctly that means the fish is getting some water exchanged rather than the ammonia buildup with bags

 

[Anonymous]

How about some sort of nesting rubbermaid containers with snaptop lids? They shouldn't be to too expensive and since they nest shipping shouldn't be too bad.

 

[mkirda]

EASI needs to find a good source for the jars in bulk and then will need donations, if I understood correctly. The villages use hot nails to melt holes in the jars and store the fish that way rather than in plastic bags until ready to send to exporter (when they switch the fish to bags). If I understodd this correctly that means the fish is getting some water exchanged rather than the ammonia buildup with bags

Yes, that is correct all the way around.

By chance, my wife has relatives who work for a major food manufacturer, one of whom helps oversee the line that produces (of all things) peanut butter! Kind of funny, actually. We've since been in touch with them, and have hooked Ferdinand up with their supplier of plastic peanut butter jars.

So it looks like we may have the initial problem solved: That of figuring out the supplier.
The next issue is raising some small amount of money to get a few thousand. After talking to Mary Middlebrook on this last month, I think we might have this covered as well. We'll see soon enough.

And to make it clear, jars are used to hold the fish in the water, preventing handling problems inherent in plastic bags on land. The fish are held inside jars held inside large mesh bags until shipping day, at which point that are packed into plastic bags for shipping.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

How about some sort of nesting rubbermaid containers with snaptop lids? They shouldn't be to too expensive and since they nest shipping shouldn't be too bad.

2 things,

1. PI is FULL of plactic jars, CHEAP!!! Pick up a PI Yellow Pages, you'll see.
2. Snaptop lids are unacceptable, it has to be a screw on lid, PERIOD!!!

well, 3 things,

3. What are the current PI exporters using? They've been shipping Clown triggers in them for YEARS. There's no need for outsiders to ship in plastic jars to PI, PI is a manufacturing heaven. My computer and many other of my possesions were made in PI.

[/quote]

 

[Anonymous]

By chance, my wife has relatives who work for a major food manufacturer, one of whom helps oversee the line that produces (of all things) peanut butter! Kind of funny, actually. We've since been in touch with them, and have hooked Ferdinand up with their supplier of plastic peanut butter jars

Right on Mike, good to hear. Do they have an American branch as well?

 

[mkirda]

IMO it sounded like EASI is doing a lot of the ground work that can be used to the benefit of the MAC. IMO the MAC should welcome this help and not view it as competition.

I agree.
EASI's approach expands what MAC was trying to do.
To think Ferdie just walks into a village with a few nets, sits down with fishermen for a few days and leaves is ridiculous. The approach starts with the local government. It involves teaching the local officials who will oversee the fishermen how to dive first, so that they can get a sense of what is going on underwater, and have the ability to follow up. It involves teaching someone how to conduct resource assessments, as well as how to evaluate them over time in order to define TAC (Total Allowable Catch) and ensure the numbers are sustainable over time. It involves considerable pressure advancing the idea of MPAs, something that the fishermen do NOT like at first. It involves ensuring that the fishermen are trained properly, and that they have enough equipment (i.e. jars) to ensure an adequate income to combat backsliding. It involves organizing the women, whom Ferdie finds tend to grasp some things much quicker than the men. It involves social equality, so that women collectors get the same money for fish as the men do. There are dozens of other things too- I'm sure you get the idea. There is a LOT of work involved, often in just getting the LGU to open up the area and allow MO fishing, and to issue permits to the locals. Then it involves hooking the fishermen up with exporters who pay more for the net-caught fish.

There are many more things here than are covered in MAC's approach, especially when it comes to money issues. They are loathe to address money issues or social equity at all. To me, the way MAC set things up is sorta like a three-legged hut. It stands, mostly, but the foundation is a little shakey yet. The fourth leg is addressed by handling the money issues, ensuring that the fishermen make enough to increase their livelihood, and by getting the LGU involved enough to understand their point of view.

Regards.
Mike Kirda