LA Cherry Picker Wanted.

[dizzy]

I'd have to say that just about every customer within driving distance of LA is a "cherry picker" to some degree. I'd also say that wholesalers who retail as well, cherry pick their own stock. Who would ship out a rare item at wholesale cost when they know damn well they can get full retail for it?
What about the wholesalers who contract with the big e-tailers like the good doctors. Eric just explained that volume speaks volumes. It's called business and the little guy gets the shaft. It creates the cut throat, turn and burn philosophy. Sell cheap so you can buy more and have a chance at the better items.

I agree with vitz that I don't like the garage businesses that don't have the balls to take the leap of faith. I took the plunge 19-years ago and I have never liked the discounters who have a real job, and do this part time in low overhead situations. I despise the wholesalers that stab the true retailers in the back by knowingly selling to them. Some of us risk it all and completely dedicate our lives to making this work. The ironic thing is that if the garage guys ever go legit, they won't like people doing to them what they are doing to the retailers.

Some of you wholesalers ougth to be ashamed of yourself. You know who you are and so do a lot of us retailers.

 

[JennM]

Amen Mitch.

 

[sdcfish]

I agree with Mitch too.

My question is:

Do you retailers think it's fair for us wholesalers to sell to E-Tailers? Even if we are selling them at the same price as retailers? I know they don't have the store-front, but the real companies like Fosters or Marine Depot, or one outside the LA Area do have overheads...not equal but still it's there.

I think that the guarantee that Fosters and Smith now offer is a good thing for the industry and set the standard much higher for others to try and reach.

I would like to hear opinions on this subject.

As for wholesalers that also sell retail? I really don't know of any in Los Angeles that do that of any large significance.

Regards,

Eric

 

[Anonymous]

Do you retailers think it's fair for us wholesalers to sell to E-Tailers? Even if we are selling them at the same price as retailers? I know they don't have the store-front, but the real companies like Fosters or Marine Depot, or one outside the LA Area do have overheads...not equal but still it's there.

I depends on how it works. If the fish are being shipped straight from the wholesaler to the consumer, then I don't think it's fair. If the fish are being shipped to the etailer and then to the consumer I don't see what the difference is.

 

[dizzy]

Eric,
I agree with Glenn, except I don't think wholesalers should sell to people who don't have a store front. I think retailers should support the wholesalers who are committed to only selling to legitimate retailers. If you want an example of a large wholesaler who also owned a retail/e-tail/mo take a flying leap back into the past issues of FAMA. :wink: Is catering to the drop shippers any better really?

 

[Anonymous]

Do you retailers think it's fair for us wholesalers to sell to E-Tailers? Even if we are selling them at the same price as retailers? I know they don't have the store-front, but the real companies like Fosters or Marine Depot, or one outside the LA Area do have overheads...not equal but still it's there.

I depends on how it works. If the fish are being shipped straight from the wholesaler to the consumer, then I don't think it's fair. If the fish are being shipped to the etailer and then to the consumer I don't see what the difference is.

it's always been my understanding that most, if not all, of even the bigger 'e-tailers' don't take nearly the same risks as a b&m lfs.

a b&m has the overhead involved in keeping the fish alive/healthy until they sell,they are far more subject to the whims of the buying public, and their financial risk on daa's is also higher,since the time/money invested is lost, if the livestock dies, even a few days after arrival-regardless of why it dies :wink:

aren't the larger 'e-tailers' like 'f&s' nothing more than a way station facility, like a national only transshipper?

if i was in a setup where i knew that all the livestock i ordered was 'already sold', and didn't have to keep it on hand, feed it, treat for diseases,wait until someone came around who wants to buy it, etc., it would be far far different than the situation at every lfs i ever worked at/managed :?

'being shipped to the 'etailer" may only mean unpacking the boxes from the wholesaler, and then repacking the individual items for shipping, w/out even opening the bags 8O

eric (sdcfish)-

do you think it's fair to the b&m lfs's you supply to, to also supply to places like the e-tailers?

i would think that that is akin to playing both ends against the middle :wink:

 

[dizzy]

I think that the guarantee that Fosters and Smith now offer is a good thing for the industry and set the standard much higher for others to try and reach.

Eric,
This guarantee may be a little misleading. Do they refund your credit card, or do you have to do another order to receive your credit? Do they send you a replacement fish freight free? This may just be a case where you feel compelled to spend quit a bit more more money in order to receive the benefit of the guarantee. ( In order to justify the freight and box costs) It would sort of be like one of us b&m stores telling the customers we will replace the $30.00 tang that died if they buy an additional $100.00 worth of livestock. It might work like this: The wholesaler who is doing the drop shipping sends out one bad fish on purpose, knowing they will get more business when the customer claims the replacement fish. The fish is going to die anyway so what the heck.
Who is actually offering the guarantee? Is it Drs. F$S or is it the drop shipping wholesaler? Does Q or E guarantee F&S that the customers will receive live arrival? Perhaps D&S is just providing a low risk extended warranty. 8O

 

[clarionreef]

At our facility [import/wholesale only]
there is no debate.
No e-tailers welcome
No drop shipping considered
No jobbers [ ie.cherry pickers ]
No sales to the public.
The formula is support for the brick and mortar working class local fish store period.
We hold the US intercontinental record for kicking out cherrypickers. ..and aim to keep it!
Sincerely, Steve
Cortez Marine
PS Netcaught only

 

[Kalkbreath]

Do you retailers think it's fair for us wholesalers to sell to E-Tailers? Even if we are selling them at the same price as retailers? I know they don't have the store-front, but the real companies like Fosters or Marine Depot, or one outside the LA Area do have overheads...not equal but still it's there.

I depends on how it works. If the fish are being shipped straight from the wholesaler to the consumer, then I don't think it's fair. If the fish are being shipped to the etailer and then to the consumer I don't see what the difference is.

What if the wholesaler \importer IS also the Largest LFS in the nation? That may have become a reality last month when one of the top ten wholesalers changed hands....... 8O

 

[Kalkbreath]

After all the trials and contemplation, we now only allow one major professional jobber into our facility

??????

That way you will constantly have ....."consistency".....at SDC! :lol: {inside joke}

 

[sdcfish]

That really is an inside joke Mr Kalkmeister!

We have great consistensy, without the Consistensea! Ha ha...another insider.

While I do agree with the statements regarding "drop shipping", I still think it's up to the hobbyists to support the retailers.

How many hobbyists order online and then go to the local fish store to ask questions and try to get help.

I see it all the time when I am in my LFS and I hear about it all the time from our retailers.

There's alot to this topic, but the discussion brings different opinions to consider.

I hope everyone is visiting their LFS this weekend! I know I wil.

 

[JennM]

Mitch, you hit the nail on the head -- before I ventured into the business myself, I tried one of those etailers... ordered 5 specimens. One was dead in the bag long before it ever left LAX, I am absolutely certain that the animal was long dead when it was repacked (peeewwww). One was dying, one had parasites (which I treated successfully), one was almost dead (died during acclimation to my system) and one died the day after. Wasn't my system - all my other creatures were fine.

So I called the seller, they would be happy to replace the specimens, if I should wish to pay $25 or whatever to ship them. Oh and if the replacements died, tough luck. Who says that I wouldn't be shipped dead fish again? I cut my losses. My order was part of a pooled order, so at least I didn't get totally bent over for the shipping.

At the end of the day, I had a sick yellow coris wrasse that cost me $41. I could have bought it locally for $22. Lesson learned. Wonder if I still have a credit at that etailer? It's changed hands a couple of times since then.... :roll:

I don't think it raises the bar at all. Reasons above notwithstanding, when one places an order with a call center, does the clerk even ask if the buyer has a saltwater tank? (I've had somebody try to buy Mexican Turbo snails for their guppy tank... good thing I asked before I bagged 'em up...). I test peoples' water before I sell them livestock - to protect the animal, to protect the hobbyist and to protect myself. IMO that does more to raise the bar than a 5-day guarantee.

As to the cherry picking issue - I've heard lots of people complain that we in the East just don't get the variety of stuff that folks West seem to have - and I attribute a lot of that to cherry pickers - the stuff never has a chance to get to this side of the country. I'm sure whatever leftovers there are, are distributed to the biggest spenders, at least that was my experience with certain suppliers. My peers in this area would rave about the specimens they would receive, and I got the dregs. What else to expect from a little mom and pop operation?

Luckily, with the supply network I use now, there are NO cherry pickers, and I have as much chance as anybody, to get the premium pieces/specimens that become available. It's really first-come, first served, and IMO that's the fairest way to do it.

As to Jeff/Kalk's comment about retailers not paying their bills, compared to etailers who do - sorry, but that's a non-issue for most of us, at least it's not an issue for those in the business that I'm aquainted with. I'm sure it is an issue for some - I have even seen that firsthand but from what I've seen, those places don't stick around for very long anyway. That's a management issue.

Jenn

 

[Kalkbreath]

The non payment by LFS is a reoccurring theme from many of the wholesalers in LAX .......as to how true it is ........I have no idea

 

[sdcfish]

Jenn,

Points well made and taken. Thanks for the clarity on the live arrival guarantee....I didn't know that it was so diluted in freight bills, but once again, it proves better to stick with your local fish store that you can pick the fish that you see eating and in their tanks for some time. Support your local fish store!

You are also correct about the first come first served statement. It is very true that this happens, but we try to bring in multiple shipments weekly to keep fresh "cherry" stuff in stock at all times. We can carry enough product now to make it nearly impossible for us never to have cherry stuff.

I just wish there were more of our customers on line here to give testimony of all the awesome products that they receive and where they are located.

The locals could definately give testimony that the best stuff is ALWAYS tagged already for those out - of- state fish stores. It's the sales reps doing that to protect their livelihoods. Our reps work on commissions and they don't get paid a cent for local business. It's in their best interests to keep the best stuff for their shipout customers.

So back to the thread topic......If you want a good cherry picker/Jobber to catch your fish for you, then be prepared to pay more for your fish than you should had you dealt direct, also know that you will not have access to the best "cherry" stuff depending on which wholesaler they go to, and also be prepared that if your shipment get's bumped, your fish have no where to go as these companies do not have large enough facilities to unpack and hold delayed shipments. It then really becomes a moral issue that will most likely become addressed within the MAC standards.

Jobbing is really a thing of the past for most retailers across the country due to the competitive nature of the business. Some stores that are not in super competitive areas can still afford to pay the extra commissions to the jobbers, but like I said, we now only have one jobber for now and it's an issue that remains to be unsolved. It's fair to say too that we were once jobbers, turned wholesalers.

 

[sdcfish]

Kalk wrote:

The non payment by LFS is a reoccurring theme from many of the wholesalers in LAX .......as to how true it is ........I have no idea

While this maybe true, it's difficult to say because their are unfair numbers to compare. Thousands of retailers across the U.S and only a handful of e-tailers.

If the wholesalers are smart, like we became years ago, then shipments of live fish are sent guaranteed payments in most cases....the risk level is very low.

So our bad dept each year is really very low. I believe that the retailers across the country are good people just trying to compete in a very competitve and difficult business. The learning curve can be painful at times for sure. Part of what we can do it try to help them succeed by giving good advice and products.


Once again, SUPPORT YOUR LFS!

 

[Anonymous]

I've always thought that the best jobber/cherry picker was a good inside sales rep. Those relationships are important.

 

[sdcfish]

Rover,

You are absolutely correct. The sales rep has to be on the ball and get in early for his/her's customers.

Fortunately, we have great reps....

Eric

 

[MaryHM]

I think the best jobber/cherry picker is the owner of the import facility. Fortunately we have a great owner...

 

[sdcfish]

Mary,

You are too correct and the same goes here.

Jeez, you and I are the best cherry pickers and we both have (careful now) first right of refusal! I am just very careful how much weight I throw around if you know what I mean arr arr.

I would have to confess that I am the nuttiest of us all. I still think I am the best at finding the rare and unusual....sometimes it's the smallest thing that get's me the most excited.

Still....too much fun...can't wait til tomorrow...MONDAY! This week is gonna be super fun.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Wait..!.....I thought Glen was the greatest.......No Mike......no Tony Nahaki .........No Dr MAC..........I think All of you wanna be "greatests} .......need to prove you greatness by sending me all you best most cherriest plucked stuff and let me be the official judge