Christian Science Monitor Magazine on Aquaria & Cyanide

[horge]

Steve / Kuya 'Teban

If wishes were fishes, ey?

Back to the article that John posted, the only thing that makes it so bitter a read is the number of years it's been since we first browsed such copy about MAC, and what there is to show for all the time (and presumably some money spent).

Errata aside... here's Question #1: If an organization to recify the errors in the industry were to actually come along, run from keel to masthead by those successfully intimate with the industry from bow to stern... how would their copy read ?

Question #2: Is MAC beyond redemption, or can it be towed up the slip way for a complete overhaul and refit, manned with a fresh new crew?

IMA and OVI kind of lost their way after impressive starts. MAC seemed to be wandering from the start, in want of a method to fit their manifesto. The key first task in reformation is information and I think the word is pretty much out there about the evils of destructive MO collection methods. Given that the undesirable practices are proven harmful to local environement and the local sovereignty's economic well-being... isn't it up to the concerned sovereignties to legislate and and enforce legislation towards enforcing?

Is an MO industry 'umbrella organization' really necessary at this point? The Mexico - Philippines comparison is right on the money. Sectors of the latter have an increasingly inbred sense of dependency on US funding, approval and disciplining. The difference between today and when we WERE a US colony is that US money back then actually got disbursed properly towards systematically-derived programs.

Today, only Filipino initiatives can ever prosper long-term, in the Philippines. Filipinos have dropped the ball big-time, but it's not helping to have outsiders trying to pick it up for us. That's for toddlers, and keeping toddlers, toddlers. With wayward juveniles and adults, a desire and rhythm to reform has to come from within. In emergency medical terms, continued CPR does more harm than good once a heartbeat is re-established.

The tough trick is getting it started (yet) again.

JMO,
h


.

 

[clarionreef]

Horge,
To answer your first question;
The brain drain of Filipino net collectors and even managers to run new stations all over the world ie. Belize, Saudi, Tonga, Vanuatu, Palau ect. already speaks volumes.
These people who know what they're doing from the Philippines are exported to other countries to teach the tropical fish trade how to do it right. Dozens of these experts are working abroad as we speak.

The market countries however, send to the Philippines people who do not know how to do it right....to teach Filipinos.

The ones being trained to fish sustainably are in the other countries. The countries that do not have a tradition of poison fishing
and therefore in less need.

I would send all the foreigners home and use all local talent and local experts. If they are good enough to run so much of the rest of the world fish supply, then they are good enough to help reform their own.

There are no shortage of good talent in the Philippines to adress all the concerns on the table. Collecting, handling, dive safety, resource assessment, management, survey work, community outreach etc. etc.
The country has not only the talent but superior talent. Plus they speak the language and understand the culture.

The only reason that they are not employed more intelligently is that they are not 'running the show'. They are not close to the heart of the NGOs [ non Filipino] that run the show...so they are not utilized and employed to work in the interest of their own land.
BFAR could do this. The extention services, offices and infrastructure is there for what? BFAR could do it and far cheaper then the outsiders budgets larded with foreign costs.
This local acceptance of 'noblesse oblige' should have worn out its welcome long ago.
Free aid? Not if it fails it isn't. Not if it makes you dance to foreign music...not if it makes you our monkey.

Determining your own destiny isn't a right anymore but an obligation.
I wish the Filipino government would follow the lead of other nations and accelerate the pace of their awakening to independance.
Like you said...for it to stick, its got to become home grown.
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Filipino ornamental fish collectors are the best in the world. There are many around the world teaching other collectors how to do things the right way.

Those collectors were trained by IMA and OVI/Haribon projects. Those collectors do not make enough money in their own country and have no choice but to go somewhere else to get the real value for their work.

The problem has been the cheap price the industry has been paying for their fish since the beginning of this trade, collectors in the Philippines do not see commitment or willingness from the industry to help them to tackle social and economic problems they face every single day.

I wonder.. what is the status of the FAO (Fisheries Administration Order)?

 

[PeterIMA]

Jaime, Which FAO are you referring to, one that exists or one that needs to be created?

Peter
East Asian Seas Inititiative

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,

I am talking about the FAO "Rules and regulations on the gathering, catching, taking, or removing of marine tropical aquarium fish" in the Philippines. I know there is the FAO 148,s. 1984. prohibiting the use of cyanide when collecting ornamental fish. Is possible that you can give us more details about enforcement and penalities.

That order exists but seems that the government can not tackle the problem.

 

[naesco]

So, in the interests of unity what are we to do?

1. The the Philippines has the legal authority to act on cyanide but does not.
2. NGOs are not welcome.

Is not the only way to shut down the cyanide industry by placing an international ban on imports from the Philippines, throw those stateside who attempt to breach the ban stateside in gaol until serious committments are made by all and than lend a hand. Or is this too extreme? If so, what sort of accommodation can be made in the interests of unity?

 

[clarionreef]

Extreme?
You used the word extreme?
If the export is tolerated and de-facto 'legal'....how do you figure that only importers should go to jail?
Do not the initiators of any chain of criminality share the crime?
Or are they to be excused because they are not North American...ie. Canadian et. al.
:roll:
Steve

 

[naesco]

Extreme?
You used the word extreme?
If the export is tolerated and de-facto 'legal'....how do you figure that only importers should go to jail?
Do not the initiators of any chain of criminality share the crime?
Or are they to be excused because they are not North American...ie. Canadian et. al.
:roll:
Steve

IMO everyone in the chain from the fishers to the retailers share the criminality. If the Philippine government and the Philippine people have no interest in stopping the destruction caused by cyanide than the only way to stop it is to block the import from the Philippines with heavy sentences to those who continue to ignore the laws.

 

[kylen]

Wayne,

What about the hobbyist? Don't they have any sort of share in this "criminality"? They are part of this industry too...and seem to be forgotten all too often.

 

[naesco]

Wayne,

What about the hobbyist? Don't they have any sort of share in this "criminality"? They are part of this industry too...and seem to be forgotten all too often.

I thought of that as I posted but came to the conclusion a very tiny few know anything about cyanide.

When you think about it, who would believe that a poison used to kill murderers and rapists is used to catch fish for our hobby!

 

[Anonymous]

Wayne,

What about the hobbyist? Don't they have any sort of share in this "criminality"? They are part of this industry too...and seem to be forgotten all too often.

I thought of that as I posted but came to the conclusion a very tiny few know anything about cyanide.

When you think about it, who would believe that a poison used to kill murderers and rapists is used to catch fish for our hobby!

So by your logic if someone commits a crime and does not know its a crime they are innocent.

 

[naesco]

Wayne,

What about the hobbyist? Don't they have any sort of share in this "criminality"? They are part of this industry too...and seem to be forgotten all too often.

I thought of that as I posted but came to the conclusion a very tiny few know anything about cyanide.

When you think about it, who would believe that a poison used to kill murderers and rapists is used to catch fish for our hobby!

So by your logic if someone commits a crime and does not know its a crime they are innocent.

Like I said most hobbyists dont have a clue that fish from the Philippines and Indonesia are caught with cyanide. All industry knows that and as a result are in contravention of the Lacey Act.

 

[kylen]

So how can a Canadian importer or retailer be in contravention of the Lacey Act?

I think ignorance of the law is not a recognized defence.

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
It seems to me that the original criminal is the worst one...receiving stolen property or using cocaine. Is that as bad as the 1st real thief and the real smuggler?
The imagination, initiative, lack of ethics and concern to begin the process in the first place is the worst crime. The chain of complicity if you will that follows is a lesser one.
If you conclude that the hobbyist is exempt by virtue of your conclusion that they are clueless...how odd.
I guess the 'beautiful ' people in Hollywood snortin a few lines a week could say the same. 'Hey dude...I don't shoot people. I'm just here havin a good time".
Comon now...think real hard. Even you can't zero in on one level of the chain seriously and exempt the rest.
Middle class folks all over the world now....Nordic people, French, Japanese, Singaporean, Brits, Canadians , Germans etc. wether they have a Black Bass Lacey act or some other....are equal in their role in supporting the demand. They all have importers, retailers, hobbyists and industry groups taking part in the whole thing.
Steve
PS. Why, with such universal acceptance of this reef killing methodology on the demand side and the consumer end, we must be missing something.


I

 

[naesco]

Steve I had no idea that cyanide was used until Mary Middlebrook let the world in on industry's "dirty little secret".
When fish died without any apparent reason, the LFS told me it was something that I did wrong and sold me something bigger or better that would help. :roll:

Ultimately the responsibility rests on the retailers that your organization represents.
Every single one of them know the cyanide facts but continue to sell cyanide caught fish to unsuspecting newbies like was done to me.
They have a responsibility to ensure that the fish they sell are not cyanide caught and a responsibility to inform and educate their customers.

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
It was an industry expose within the industry. The first photos, text and articles went to the public. All during the 80's the public was treated to photo articles constantly.
After 10 years of this entertainment, it was clear that the demand side, ie. the consumer end would not do the right thing if it ment giving up variety and the low price that kept them happy.
Many irresponsible members of the public blamed cyanide for anything and everything...largely to excuse their own lack of fishkeeping skills. Although there is a serious cyanide poisoning issue with regards to fish health...the environmental issue was even bigger. Hobbyists however, wanted to believe that all their failures were cyanide related and the effect was to water down the real story and a more accurate truth.
To this day we may hear people talk of thin cyanided yellow tangs
Instead of galvanizing, uniting and pressuring retailers to alter their buying habits....they didn't. Many dealers were furious with the exposes...and were afraid of a backlash and a groundswell of reform pressure. When it didn't materialize...the heat was off and it never mattered that much again.
To assist the keeping the pressure down and a lid on things...an industry whitewash trip was organized [ 1987] by handpicked people and they went to the Philippines and found that "I had exaggerated the whole thing."
Seriously...that was the verdict in a nutshell!
They wiped the exporters noses and promised to help control the reform tide and keep the lid on.
They did and they still do.
Helping to keep serious reform from happening has been one of their greatest achievements.
20 years after the original expose...its still being discovered anew.
Steve

 

[naesco]

So there you go.

Now what? Where do we go from here?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Oh! the reform is in full swing. Its called the reef tank and The Internet. There are many things sold on the Web , but not many cyanide fish.
Corals and inverts are replacing the demand for cyanide fish and fish in general for that matter. Aqua cultured corals {actually Mariculture} are changing the face of the hobby. Today almost fifty percent of the SPS corals are Farm grown and that number is climbing each year. If and when CITES ends the silly notion of requiring wild coral permits to import farm grown corals.......the percentage of mariculture corals flooding the market will increase. In my store seventy to eighty percent of sales are for reef tanks. I cant selll triggers, groupers and the likes. Even yellow tangs are not selling because these fish even though they are tangs are not very good reef tank fish ....... Algae blennies,kole tangs, sand sifters, scrapers etc.
This real reeform {reeftanks} does something MAC cant do .....it places value directly on the live coral. {the reef} Farming the coral itself is the only real way the islanders are going to safeguard it.
Welcome to the new face of the hobby ....Mariculture!

 

[mkirda]

This real reeform {reeftanks} does something MAC cant do .....it places value directly on the live coral. {the reef} Farming the coral itself is the only real way the islanders are going to safeguard it.
Welcome to the new face of the hobby ....Mariculture!

While there is some truth to this, there is ultimately very little. When the major mariculturalists are farming in open water on bouy-supported platforms 50 feet below the surface, it sure doesn't seem like mariculture is going to do much to protect any reefs. They aren't even near a reef.

Personally, I like the idea of villages farming in local protected lagoonal areas.
Co-ops doing this can do a lot to protect the local reefs, plus they will see the value in protecting the reef structure itself.
It is ecologically valuable. Open-water bouy-based mariculture is not. It basically benefits a white guy.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Kalkbreath]

All the coral cuttings are coming from the wild reef itself. The mother colonies are growing out on the reef. Therefor the farmers react when someone tramples their farm land. [ie harm to the reef] Even the racks that the coral farmers set in the sand lagoons help the reefs. These coral tables act like mini artificial reefs. Attracting many of the same marine life as the wild reefs, only in areas that cant naturally support coral structure growth.
Its a win win situation!