Do you like your SPS med. rare or well done?

[Kalkbreath]

Whats the ideal exposure for a product thats going to be placed eventually into an aquarium?
Sun lit out on the reef?
Sun lit in a green house on land?
In the shadows of a jumbo jet at the wholesalers?
Or under artifical light ?
There has been some discusion about the use of 1000 watt bulbs in other threads so I thought I would give the subject its own Thread.
We switched to 1000 watt 20 k on our SPS Clams and anemones about a year ago. We have ten plus 1000 watt bulbs blasting away.
What we found is that bulbs burning at 20 k are very inefficient
We have used a light meter to measure three 400 watt bulbs vrs one 1000 watt blasters and it wasnt even close. Its almost twice the Par in favor of the 1000 watter .
With 6500k the par per watt is about even for 400 and 1000 watt bulbs . Its the blue color bulbs that tilt the comparison.
Most SPS growers agree that blue l
ight colors up polyps better ..... both on the reef and in the Aquarium.
The biggest issue for us is not more intensity then 400 watt bulbs but heat transfer to the water and less chillers. You want to lose money growing corals ........find yourself using Chillers!
With the par starved 400 watt bulbs you need to place the bulbs too close to the water thus heat build up in the water.
With the 1000 watt bulbs we can raise the bulbs three feet off the water line and limit the heat transfer.
Also by placing the bulbs so high up, the amount of surface that is lit by one bulb is increased well beyond that of three 400 watt bulbs .
As for what or {Watt} happens after the corals leave the illumination of the 1000 watt bulbs and are placed into the home aquarium .........We have found that even 175 0r 250 watt bulbs can keep the color up as long as the coral is placed close enough to the new less intense light source.
The actual exposure using a 1000 watt bulb at four feet is about the same as a 250 watt bulb at six inches.
Its just that to use 250 watt bulbs on a large scale it would take eight bulbs to shead the same span as
...............one 1000 watt "light of God " As Eric Boreman likes to call his 1000 watt beast.
Just dont get the bright idea of putting one on your 12 gallon .
Although the daily evaporation on such a lit tank would enable quite a lot of Kalkwasser replacement water !

 

[dizzy]

...............one 1000 watt "light of God " As Eric Boreman likes to call his 1000 watt beast.

It is no wonder Eric has come up with a list of 400 species that shouldn't be collected for the aquarium trade. They all fall short of the glory of the light of God. :wink: If people go with 1000 watters and raise them to 3' they should also be able to keep a year round tan, if they spend much time looking at their tank. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Would that have any effect on the customers who are going to take the corals home and put them in under light tanks?

 

[mkirda]

We have used a light meter to measure three 400 watt bulbs vrs one 1000 watt blasters and it wasnt even close. Its almost twice the Par in favor of the 1000 watter .
With 6500k the par per watt is about even for 400 and 1000 watt bulbs .

Which 20K bulb is this vs which 400W bulb?

I have taken measurements of 400W Iwasakis and 400W 20K bulbs and found that the Iwasakis output PAR levels far in excess of the 20K bulbs.

And for the 6500K, which bulb in 400W and 1000W? That makes little to no sense that a 1000W bulb would put out the same PAR level as the same bulb in a 400W version. Unless it was driven by a horrible ballast...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Kalkbreath]

Yes, thats what I wrote ......

Its almost twice the Par in favor of the 1000 watter

Per watt , the 1000 watt blue bulb actually beats a combination of four 400 watt bulbs.[1200 watts] One can achieve nice par levels and blue color using a 1000 watt 20 K set up.

and

The actual exposure using a 1000 watt bulb at four feet is about the same as a 250 watt bulb at six inches

In a large commercial setting one can achieve higher light levels at a cheaper cost using 1000 watt setups. The hobbyist can still supply the coral the same light intensity using one-fourth the amount of light {250} as long as the distant from the light is also only one-fouth the distance { 6 inches Vs four feet.}

 

[Kalkbreath]

We have used a light meter to measure three 400 watt bulbs vrs one 1000 watt blasters and it wasnt even close. Its almost twice the Par in favor of the 1000 watter .
With 6500k the par per watt is about even for 400 and 1000 watt bulbs .

Which 20K bulb is this vs which 400W bulb?

I have taken measurements of 400W Iwasakis and 400W 20K bulbs and found that the Iwasakis output PAR levels far in excess of the 20K bulbs.

And for the 6500K, which bulb in 400W and 1000W? That makes little to no sense that a 1000W bulb would put out the same PAR level as the same bulb in a 400W version. Unless it was driven by a horrible ballast...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

I am comparing 20 K bulbs to each other.
Yes the 6500 bulbs out Par blue bulbs .
But for those growers wishing to use blue color light ........there is a big difference between 400 watt and 1000 watt bulbs when comparing them watt for watt.
Perhaps this originates in ballast design or in bulb manufacturing ?

 

[coralfarmin]

kalk
finally someone else thinks out the box :wink:

 

[naesco]

...............one 1000 watt "light of God " As Eric Boreman likes to call his 1000 watt beast.

It is no wonder Eric has come up with a list of 400 species that shouldn't be collected for the aquarium trade. They all fall short of the glory of the light of God. :wink: If people go with 1000 watters and raise them to 3' they should also be able to keep a year round tan, if they spend much time looking at their tank. :lol:

Where can I get my hands on the list Eric has come up with?

 

[dizzy]

Where can I get my hands on the list Eric has come up with?

Be careful what you ask for. The last guy who had knowledge of this list has his picture on a milk carton. 8O

 

[Dr. Mac1]

Kalk,
What I have found is not so much the par or intensity of the lamps, but rather the spectrum. I'm not trying to buck the science of par readings, but I pretty much ignore that stuff.

As an example, some time ago I took several Acro colonies and fragged them up. Placed some frags under 400 watt 20,000K XMs and some others under 400watt 20,000K XMs plus VHO actinics, all metal halides were of the same age, same type of ballast and fixture. I let them all grow for 3 months and then put them back together under the same lighting and guess what, those grown under just the MH were very noticabely less colorful than the ones that got the actinic light. So, now with a greenhouse as I am sure you know all the Acros look brown, some actually are and many are not when placed under artificial light. However, I have supplemented some greenhouse tanks with VHO actinics to retain the blues, purples, etc. and it does a great job and no extreme electric bills or heating issues of MH. Also, I use geothermal heating and cooling of the water so the heating issue is not realy a concern anyway.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk,
What I have found is not so much the par or intensity of the lamps, but rather the spectrum. I'm not trying to buck the science of par readings, but I pretty much ignore that stuff.

.

I agree and I knew you would. Its kinda like people telling us that water is not wet.....You can tell who has jumped in and who has not,
simply by what they say about the subject.
But I guess I really am a horrible author , people seem to not be getting the gist of my writtings
The idea that I was trying to put forth in this post is,
that if you like 400 watt blue bulbs ......you will love 1000 watt blue bulbs .

 

[dizzy]

But I guess I really am a horrible author , people seem to not be getting the gist of my writtings
The idea that I was trying to put forth in this post is,
that if you like 400 watt blue bulbs ......you will love 1000 watt blue bulbs .

No argument here on the top statement. My point is that Dana Riddle is doing the proper research into what causes the corals to color up. His early finding are that increasing the intensity above a certain point does not help in this regard. Dr. Mac was at MACNA, did you get to leave the booth to hear Dana's lecture?
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

In a large commercial setting one can achieve higher light levels at a cheaper cost using 1000 watt setups. The hobbyist can still supply the coral the same light intensity using one-fourth the amount of light {250} as long as the distant from the light is also only one-fouth the distance { 6 inches Vs four feet.}

Ok, not that I know anything about the particular makeup of 1000w vs 250w bulbs, but assuming both are equal outputs per watt, if you increase the distance by a factor of 4, you reduce the intensity by a factor of 16, not 4. So you'd only need to halve the distance to get the same intensity.

Also 6 inches is not one-fourth of 4 feet

 

[Kalkbreath]

So the use of 1000 watt bulbs does not necessarily translate into more light reaching the corals. Depending on how high up the light is mounted one could be growing the coral under less light then the average hobbyist would be .........once they brought it home.
How does the use of natural sunlight fit into the aqua culture to hobbyists product flow.?
Are corals grown in the sunsine a deceptive product?

 

[coralfarmin]

kalk
thank goodness for your open mindedness on this issue
another thing that should be pointed out to people here is that a 1000 watt bulb deteriates in intensity much more rapid than lower wattage bulbs
there is a point imo where they do stop lossing intensity and probably put out the same as I'd quess(visualy) since I dont have a meter as a little more than a 400 watt saki supplemented
I still would rather have that than sakis supplement cause of having less wires to hang
also 4 250's dont put out near as much lumens initaly than a 1000 watter
though Id have to look up the actual lumens on similar bulbs to show this

 

[mkirda]

kalk
thank goodness for your open mindedness on this issue
another thing that should be pointed out to people here is that a 1000 watt bulb deteriates in intensity much more rapid than lower wattage bulbs

If you know this, then it should come as no surprise then that Dana Riddle also noted that 20K bulbs' intensity decreases in linear fashion, and at about 90 days, they need to be replaced (because of the high % loss of intensity).

He noted that you could tell how old the bulb was simply by measuring its intensity on the 20ks.

Now, maybe they have improved that over the past few years, but nothing I have heard indicates that.

I'm still waiting to hear what bulb exactly you are advocating in 20k.

Mike

 

[coralfarmin]

any 1000 watt bulb regardless of kelvin has much less of a life expectancy than lower wattage bulbs
dr. mac noted that 20k's need to be replaced frequently a long time ago
though I have run some over 2 years before
the 20k I prefer is coralife cause of cost
I also like radiums but even wholesale price is obserd
there is also a blue 1000 watt venture that I want to try to supplement my greenhouse vats with....it peaks out like a O3 and is less than 100$
I will also consider the cheap 14k hamilton
since I will be using the 1000 watters to supplement in the future intensity loss is not of as much concern to me as coverage
intensity can be compensated simply by gradualy lowering the light
also I will be going for color and not growth in my planned 4x8x12" vats seasonably after summer growth
also the 1000 watters will add heat to the greenhouse in the winter

 

[sdcfish]

Last I heard from the "Great Dustin Dorton" of ORA, who handles the coral farming from ORA, he highly recommended that 250watt bulbs were the ticket. I think he would be a reliable source for this topic. Maybe he can chime in here......anyone seen Dustin? HEY DUSTIN! Can you hear us?

 

[coralfarmin]

250 saki's?
thats what Dick at Tropicorium uses

 

[mkirda]

any 1000 watt bulb regardless of kelvin has much less of a life expectancy than lower wattage bulbs
dr. mac noted that 20k's need to be replaced frequently a long time ago

This is not just 1000W 20K bulbs. It is ALL 20K bulbs, regardless of wattage, at least that were out at the time Dana spoke about them.

And IIRC, his presentation at the Long Beach MACNA was long before Dr. Mac came onto the national scene. (Could be wrong on that as I stopped getting FAMA around the same time as it was essentially useless.)

Lowering the bulbs does work to some degree, at the expense of coverage. I thought you were worried about coverage and not intensity???

Mike