Is it really fair to wholesale and retail livestock???

[coralfarmin]

thats probably why some wholesalers are doing just that, and "NOT" encouraging others to do the same

just because someone who is extremly smart, and been put up on a pedistle for so long here......oh well ...bump that

I will not let them discourage me by taking everything they say for the gospel....I have a mind of my own :lol:

 

[clarionreef]

Ahh Wayne,
Haven't you heard? Sorry to break it to you but the house bill is dead.
So now you want to shut down the trade from Indonesians and Filipinos? [instead of support any refromation...] What will the fisherman do now boss?
Does this mean that you have now withdrawn your legions of support for MAC?
FIND OTHER SOURCES OF FISH? :roll:
YOU MEAN OTHER THEN THE ONES ALREADY IN IMPORTERS FILES ALL OVER THE WORLD?
Are you suggesting that a new, undisclosed source of good, like species is out there? [Actually there is one; But you don/t know it and it ain't gonna happen for a while. Nor will it ever hold up a trade as Asia does.]
TR fish; You mean the business that produces is having a hard time selling them? You mean there is no support for them?
Actually, a new 'green' NGO called RPI is now doing free PR for TR stuff as an alternative to ocean fishes that feed thousands of fisherman.
They don't need the help as they already have good advertising but these days helping the PR dept of a big company now gets you a warm fuzzy.... :?

Do you mean to imply that they are not already a mainstream product?
Do you mean that the new green fish movement is to start buying fish from Petco now...[ where most of the TR stuff goes]
You were funnier on the Tang tangent.
Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

Steve, I like you
I needed a new mentor...thats you now.I am a 29 year old sponge please help me absorb half your knowledge

 

[treeman]

Steve,
Finally somebody speaks the truth. I want the other half.

 

[clarionreef]

But guy,
Knowledge is worthless if it comes sandbagged wih a code of ethics.
You'll go much futher with half the knowledge and less ethics.
Steve

 

[treeman]

Oh but I disagree, I would rather sleep at night because of my ethics I know the ones witout ethics sleep but it all comes back in the end.

 

[clarionreef]

KAMRA REALLY WORKS?
WHEN, AFTER THEY ARE RETIRED?
STEVE

 

[treeman]

Well I don't know, Maybe on thier death bed at an early age :wink:

 

[treeman]

Hey Treeman, hope all is well down in the tropics!

Coralfarmin - Please dont take my prior post as me taking sides, was just butting in with a correction (in my mind) to your post. Believe me, I was once out here a couple times, freaking out on Steve, Mary, and the gang at what I thought was purely an anti-etail stance they had.
I too thought, "Man, these people need to get with the times, etail is much smarter than doing the whole fish store thing that always seems to fail, get slammed online for no knowledge, carry only sick fish and brown corals, and ovecharge out the you know what!"
I knew (or thought I knew) what I was putting into my etail only business at the time was tons of hours and sacrifices and how dare these folks tell me I'm not really doing anyone a favor, and actually hurting the trade.
I took that stuff personally, and reacted emotionally out here. I stand corrected now!
My stance still is that etail is a bit of a necessary evil. Example...a customer of mine may be in the middle of nowhere Iowa, or anywhere USA with no LFS for hours! Maybe not even their fault, but their spouses relocation placed them far from any decent stores. Should they not be allowed to enjoy the hobby ...of course they should...so I think etail is great for those situations.
Flip side that I now see that I didn't before. Is that etail only serves a small percentage of the existing hobbyists. It really does absolutely nothing to expand the hobby and get more people involved. Thats what a good local fish store can do. And that has to happen or the hobby base stays stagnant, or worse, deteriorates.

Anyhow, my thoughts on your last question. No, I don't think a wholesaler that orders some stuff in to sell retail...even etail is wrong as long as they are up front about it. Then it's our choices who to support. I know it may appear they cherry pick just for them...but as a supporter of your implied wholesaler, I know that even us small little stores can order that red yuma, green/red blasto, etc. I really depise the etail giants that dont house or even see their product they sell. And then sell at an ungodly price..that pisses me off, but thats for another day

I too am involved on a project of 35-60 acres of greenhouses, control rooms, and coral gene pooling projects. May be years until its complete, and part of the goal is to be able to re-seed reefs around the world damaged by fishing vessels, over collection, dynamite, tourism, etc. But, our team also counts on the hobby growing, more LFS's opening, etc.

Ok, its early, I need coffee and realize I probably just wrote way too much!

Peace, Bryan

Hey Bryan,
It is funny how things change. I remember when you were so mad I could see steam because of how the people were treating you in LA. Now you have flipped...huh? I can understand. Putting the foot on the another path shows you a new perspective, doesn't it?

OH and 10 am is NOT early!! I am thinking about lunch by then. :lol:

 

[logicalreef]

Not quite sure its a full flip! I'm just a hair better now at seeing /listening/understanding a bit more than my own desires. Trying to work more in the system as opposed to trying to re-invent that which I still dont fully understand. Actually, back then I was still polishing my skills at being consitently wrong! Have a great one Matt, hope to connect soon.

 

[treeman]

Yes, See you soon. I will come up and buy you breakfast! Say at the crack of noon.

 

[JeremyR]

I don't think the wholesaler in question does nearly as much etail as you all seem to think.. this is mostly much ado about nothing. They are up front about it. It's a free country, people can run their business how they like, and you have the choice to accept their terms as stated, or go elsewhere. With the amount of sources in existance, it won't take long to find someone to do what you are looking for.

 

[mark@mac]

Steve wrote:
"An aquaculture greenhouse facility needs certifying by "clip-board crusaders" like a race car driver needs to take the basic driving test. Testing him is such a low priority event compared to the ones that really need it."


They (race car drivers) do have "certified" mechanics............ and an aquaculture facility can do environmental harm if they don't do things right......

Mark

 

[clarionreef]

Mark,
Comon...you gonna teach ORA how to not let their 'effluent' into the ocean?
The few facilities in question have standards too high for you guys to understand.
In order to impose MAC standards on ORA or Proaquatix or C-Quest...they would first have to teach you in order to then concoct ideas to regulate them.

Compared to the real mission and the original mission in SE Asia, this looks so much like casting about for your own validation and desire to jump into more professional peoples action.

Perhaps when some cyanide fisherman have really been converted and start producing well handled, high quality fish...in any significant numbers and to any degree of consistancy...then you could perhaps move on and attempt to teach and regulate others in other hemispheres that have so much more experience.

Really, the mission in the Philippines and in Indonesia is so far from being delt with, Isn't the job there big enough for now?
What on earth do you have to teach the folks at ORA?
Or is it in fact the other way around and you are in fact seeking their validation for your group? ORA should charge you if they allow you to hitch the rowboat to their ship.
Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

Jermy
I agree that it is a free country..but I thought it was common knowledge that wholesaling and retailing at the same time is just a no no..in the trade..athough alot do

I may have to consider doing both myself one day..I was just wondering how others felt as well about the subject...

CM
what about if your system circulates from the ocean in CA but houses speices that are from other regions of the world..dont you still run the same risk of spreading things that wold normaly not be here...just like farming coral from indonesia in florida waters or something..cant do that

 

[clarionreef]

c...farmin,
Its a free country and you can be all things to all people at your own peril.
For example, a wholesaler who competes with his own loyal customers tends to lose the loyal customer.
This is his reward for trying to have the wife and the girlfriend at the same time.
Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

That is what I have always heard..something to that effect

If someone uses the ocean in CA or Florida to circulate their system,is this not the same as farming coral from another country in these waters....

Cant new diseases be introduced to these waters like that....just thinkin out load after marks comment about doing damage to the enviroment...Heck I dont have a clue myself

 

[dizzy]

I may have to consider doing both myself one day..I was just wondering how others felt as well about the subject...

My opinion is that you should make up your mind if you want to retail or if you want to wholesale. I used to buy on occasion from the wholesaler Jeremy is alluding too. Once I learned of the retail/etail site I never bought another order. Regardless of what percentage is wholesale verus retail I think it is wrong and that it sends the wrong message to the rest of 104th St. If we give one the green light to do both we might as well let them all do it and just screw the independent stores.
My two cents.
Mitch

 

[coralfarmin]

thanxs
I guess the vast majority I have talked to think it is wrong

It really dont make sense...to work both angles..but I dont want to say I'd never do it cause every time I say something like that
I always end up doin what I say I wont do

 

[JeremyR]

I guess my problem with the whole thread is that the gripe didn't start because X wholesaler has a retail website, the gripe started because X wholesaler denied selling to the poster. If X wholesaler had serviced the poster, then there would be no complaint and he'd be ok with the business model. Sour Grapes.