CNN Marine Ornamental Fish Story from Hawaii
- Thread starter Mike King
- Start date
So, everyone complains that PIJAC isn't doing it's job, when here in our own country we aren't either. Why has it taken the locals so long to realize that their reefs are being raped, and why haven't they done something about it before now?:?
Maybe Mr. Case should look in his own backyard, before telling the world what to do. :roll:
Shouldn't be better for MO exporters in Hawaii if they declare the real value of exported fish, by doing that they'd show the real economic importance to this fishery. They are killing themselves.
According to this article exporters in Hawaii are doing the same that exporters in developing countries such as Pi and IN regarding the value of exported fish.
According to this article exporters in Hawaii are doing the same that exporters in developing countries such as Pi and IN regarding the value of exported fish.
As in not reporting their true income to keep the taxes down? I've never seen a proforma invoice from HI, only from 3rd world countries. Every invoice I've ever seen outa HI has been reported as full value 
Slightly different thing here J.B. One is trying to keep under wraps how much they take , and the other is hiding the true value of the fish to hide from tax collectors.
I do agree they're shooting themselves in both feet, and both eyes though
Slightly different thing here J.B. One is trying to keep under wraps how much they take , and the other is hiding the true value of the fish to hide from tax collectors.I do agree they're shooting themselves in both feet, and both eyes though
What proof is there to support the notion that five times as many fish is being exported? Lets do the fish count . How many yellow tangs are imported each year? The average FOB price is 5 bucks. Yellow tangs represent over fifty percent of the HW fish exported. Thats 100,000 yellow tangs per year if the total is one million in dollars.
One-hundred thousand yellow tangs is two thousand per week. Ive seen the weekly clutch of yellow tangs in LA and ATl , Miami.....its a few hundred per wholesaler if that.
two thousand is not out of line ......with reality .
However , The TEN thousand yellow tangs the Author is pretending might actually be exported weekly is silly.
{Hack job}
One-hundred thousand yellow tangs is two thousand per week. Ive seen the weekly clutch of yellow tangs in LA and ATl , Miami.....its a few hundred per wholesaler if that.
two thousand is not out of line ......with reality .
However , The TEN thousand yellow tangs the Author is pretending might actually be exported weekly is silly.
{Hack job}
typical Kalkulonian comment :lol: What lands stateside doesn't represent total catch my friend What lives after landing in LAX and such is still not an accurate representation of over catch either. Even total of live ones that are shipped isn't an accurate number of total fish landings in HI. I do agree their numbers are most likely off a tad, but not as much as you'd like to think.
What lives after landing in LAX and such is still not an accurate representation of over catch either. Even total of live ones that are shipped isn't an accurate number of total fish landings in HI. I do agree their numbers are most likely off a tad, but not as much as you'd like to think.The number that I have seen reported a few years back is 600K a year on yellow tangs. That would be about 10K a week. I think that would be a bit high. The wholesaler I use to order from would get in 200-400 a week, but not year round. If there was 10-20 wholesales in the world that got that many, it would be a lot. I wounder if Syd has gotten any further than 30 days on the larvae yet. Sure would be a nice market for CB yellow tangs.
Whats your DOA on yellow tangs 60%?You need to aclimate the fish better if your seeing that many die! You also forgot to mention the cyanide in Hawaii thing(only one in a hundred survive collection like in PI)GreshamH":3bkln2hw said:typical Kalkulonian comment :lol: What lands stateside doesn't represent total catch my friend
Fifty percent would need to come in dead to double the total and only one in five fish living through shipping for the authors five times to hold up.
Are you holding to that notion?
Sun Pet is a major player in the Southeast, suppling Petcos and Pets marts as well as a few hundred B& mortar in seven states. They sell 250 grand a week in live fish stuff. They bring in a few hundred yellow tangs at a time.(3 to 5 hundred) That lasts for the entire month! Some of the Y tangs they got in three weeks ago are still there!
The over seas market in tiny compared to the USA. Yes big fish go to Europe, but not many yellow tangs. The total fish count is 80/20 to the USA.
Attachments
Kalkbreath":27rffxlh said:
Jesus, Kalk. Do you ever do anything except blow smoke up you know where?
If you got a problem with Tissot's numbers, why don't you take it up with him directly? Blabbing here that your importer only gets X number, then extrapolating will only get you so far. The question you need to be asking is how they derived the number and from what reports. You can state assumptions all you want, but until you figure out how the number is derived, you'd still just be stinking up my underwear.
Not like I expect you to actually do anything.
You've proven yourself incapable of such behavior time and time again.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
Where are Tissots numbers!
"The current reported data may be five times lower then actual" is hardly proof to substantiate his notion!
Maybe the true export numbers are five times LESS!
Is this the same guy that claimed the land down under exports twelve million dollars a year in marine fish?
You all let this stuff slide by time and time again,
Just because I cant prove that 100 million fish are NOT being collected from the Big Island each year ......does not make it true!
Its the Authors responsibility to back up his claims, claiming that no studies are available to disprove his assertion is not proof he is correct.
Something I can prove is that Fishing on the Big island has been going on for twenty-five years. The MO fish populations have remained about the same for the entire time.
What ever the current collection numbers are ...its sustainable!
The definition of sustainable is "remaining constant year after year"
Twenty plus years and still plenty of fish year after year is what the author should be concerned with. That and the fact that ninty percent of the states waters have zero industry collection taking place. The reefs that our collectors take from in HI are some of the most degraded multi use areas in the state. (thats why MO collection is allowed in these areas} .
The Kona coast beaches have the most polution and runoff from hotels/ industry of any of the states waters. Fish levels would be lower there even if no collection took place. so dont even begin the argument of hoe the othe side of the island has more fish! :roll:
"The current reported data may be five times lower then actual" is hardly proof to substantiate his notion!
Maybe the true export numbers are five times LESS!
Is this the same guy that claimed the land down under exports twelve million dollars a year in marine fish?
You all let this stuff slide by time and time again,
Just because I cant prove that 100 million fish are NOT being collected from the Big Island each year ......does not make it true!
Its the Authors responsibility to back up his claims, claiming that no studies are available to disprove his assertion is not proof he is correct.
Something I can prove is that Fishing on the Big island has been going on for twenty-five years. The MO fish populations have remained about the same for the entire time.
What ever the current collection numbers are ...its sustainable!
The definition of sustainable is "remaining constant year after year"
Twenty plus years and still plenty of fish year after year is what the author should be concerned with. That and the fact that ninty percent of the states waters have zero industry collection taking place. The reefs that our collectors take from in HI are some of the most degraded multi use areas in the state. (thats why MO collection is allowed in these areas} .
The Kona coast beaches have the most polution and runoff from hotels/ industry of any of the states waters. Fish levels would be lower there even if no collection took place. so dont even begin the argument of hoe the othe side of the island has more fish! :roll:
Kalkbreath":2c6hmhtj said:
Ever heard of "Google"? :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
Kalkbreath":2c6hmhtj said:
As I said, Kalk, if you got some problem with the numbers, TAKE IT UP WITH THE PEOPLE THAT GENERATED THE NUMBERS!
I didn't even bother reading beyond this point as I could already tell you didn't get my point earlier. No one on this board generated the numbers. No one on this board is interested in trying to follow Kalk-math. Go talk to the report's actual author(s), then make your case and report back. Until then, NO ONE IS INTERESTED.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
mkirda":odqelb0r said:
:lol:
FWIW Kalk, in over a million gallons at our facility, none contain, or ever will contain, yellow tangs. No where in the 10 acres + of green house are there any yellow tangs :lol: Your barking up the wrong tree here buddy, I experience no DOA of MO in my line of work
GreshamH ;Then why are you suggesting that the collection totals out of Hawaii are higher then reported due to huge DOA/DAA in Hawaiian fish during transport? Did the frags in the green house tell you so?
Im not making the connection?
MKirda: So you will take any report as being true, hand it to this board and the public....... as long as it furthers your cause?
Then back away and state that is up to the reader to disprove the paper/ CNN hack job? It sure sounds like you support it. You offered it up .
Ive told you why I see little reason to support its basis, why do you feel it has enough merit to defend it?
Whats the chance this was funded by the fine Senator from Hawaii? OR his Daughter? You know the people that claim dredging and blast fishing is used to collect trade fish. Seems like they couldn't find any damaged reefs in Hawaii nor missing fish ......to pin on the collectors, so in order to support the notion that the trade needs further government regulation (like whats being proposed by the Senator) .They are using the abstract idea that its possible that more fish are being exported then reported.
Hoping this lack of accounting would get support behind the save the reefs movement (House bill#***). They know if an indepth look at the current health of the reefs in Hawaii is whats debated , the industry would be exculpated of any harm. Thus they turn to the abstract paper trail issue instead.
It shows true intentions of this crowd.
And its not the reefs.
Just like the new TV program with the Women President.
This CNN peice was an attempt to warm the public up to the idea. :wink:
Im not making the connection?
MKirda: So you will take any report as being true, hand it to this board and the public....... as long as it furthers your cause?
Then back away and state that is up to the reader to disprove the paper/ CNN hack job? It sure sounds like you support it. You offered it up .
Ive told you why I see little reason to support its basis, why do you feel it has enough merit to defend it?
Whats the chance this was funded by the fine Senator from Hawaii? OR his Daughter? You know the people that claim dredging and blast fishing is used to collect trade fish. Seems like they couldn't find any damaged reefs in Hawaii nor missing fish ......to pin on the collectors, so in order to support the notion that the trade needs further government regulation (like whats being proposed by the Senator) .They are using the abstract idea that its possible that more fish are being exported then reported.
Hoping this lack of accounting would get support behind the save the reefs movement (House bill#***). They know if an indepth look at the current health of the reefs in Hawaii is whats debated , the industry would be exculpated of any harm. Thus they turn to the abstract paper trail issue instead.
It shows true intentions of this crowd.
And its not the reefs.
Just like the new TV program with the Women President.
This CNN peice was an attempt to warm the public up to the idea. :wink:
Kalkbreath":2qzhkl06 said:
I have no reason to defend it or whatever, Kalk.
You come on here and start railing on it like a madman, pulling numbers out of your ass, none of which are referenced in the article, then demand to know this and that.
To which I said (essentially) ENOUGH!
Mike King posted a link. You start raving like a freakin' lunatic, and I told you to back off. End of story as far as I am concerned. You start raving again, I again say STOP. You start slandering me, painting me with all sorts of accusations above, NOT ONE OF WHICH CAN POSSIBLY BE PROVEN. I haven't said diddly about this article, other than to tell you to bring your problems with the article to the author of the article.
NO ONE ON RDO IS THE AUTHOR, KALK.
CAN'T YOU GET IT???????????????????
We have had enough of KALK-Math.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
I OKey , I didn't keep up ........too many Mike K,s
I cant keep them straight. I apologize
My point is that these anti industry people are coming after us in a very aggressive and under handed manor...... Yet nobody but me seems to care?
I was one of the loudest voices before Y2K on the idea that terrorists are coming and yet the government and society WERE more worried about their computers crashing then the jumbo jets. |
I was wrong about Y2K being the " when " just because wemade it this far does not mean its not coming around the corner.
Its that they are after us you all should be worried about.
Keep in mind that even if your personal coral farms take hold...
(IT SEEMS 9 out of 10 POSTERS ON THIS BOARD ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON CORAL FARM PROJECTS)
if they ban wild fish collection, the hobby is dead and your and my coral farms will fail to invite the required new customer interest that only cheap wild fish can deliver.
So its your problem just as much as anyones....put down your tubes of super glue and take a stand! Dont be the biggest invertebrate in the room!. :wink:
I cant keep them straight. I apologize
My point is that these anti industry people are coming after us in a very aggressive and under handed manor...... Yet nobody but me seems to care?
I was one of the loudest voices before Y2K on the idea that terrorists are coming and yet the government and society WERE more worried about their computers crashing then the jumbo jets. |
I was wrong about Y2K being the " when " just because wemade it this far does not mean its not coming around the corner.
Its that they are after us you all should be worried about.
Keep in mind that even if your personal coral farms take hold...
(IT SEEMS 9 out of 10 POSTERS ON THIS BOARD ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON CORAL FARM PROJECTS)
if they ban wild fish collection, the hobby is dead and your and my coral farms will fail to invite the required new customer interest that only cheap wild fish can deliver.
So its your problem just as much as anyones....put down your tubes of super glue and take a stand! Dont be the biggest invertebrate in the room!. :wink:
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
