Clarion (etc..) Smuggler final word?

[Anonymous]

you should see what happens with corals arriving in LAX

PM if you'd like...I'm intrigued. What is it?

Peace,

Chip

 

[JT]

you should see what happens with corals arriving in LAX

PM if you'd like...I'm intrigued. What is it?

There are many ways in which CITES numbers get bypassed by exporters AND importers.

Certain exporters will rubber-band two to three corals together, especially trachyphyllia sp., so they appear as one in the bag. It's also a known fact that there are always TWO different invoices generated. One real invoice for costing received product and one fake one for F&W/Customs.

Not only are the exporters to blame for partcipating in this practice but some importers should be held more accountable for encouraging and teaching this practice to the exporters to begin with. To a certain extent F&W is also to blame as they are not well educated in species identification.

 

[Anonymous]

'nuff said. Thanks for the info.

Peace,

Chip

 

[sdcfish]

JT,

I am glad you said those things on the thread. I appreciate your comments and also should know that I had always been your advocate and tried to support you while you were at SDC.

I too have no hard feelings, but am confused on some of your comments regarding the sharks and clarions. Maybe you and I can clear the air sometime.

Best regards,

Eric

 

[Anonymous]

"Proforma invoices" :lol:

Proforma = $250
real invoice = $5K

Why don't they match up? FWIW<my understanding is that proforma is only a tool to help the exporter hide taxes. We never used proformas to get anything in, not detailed enough for our USF&WS local field office.

 

[danieldm]

- FLORIDA CRIMINAL HISTORY -
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[JennM]

So I guess we should be afraid if he says, "Can I write a check for that?"

8O

Jenn

 

[Vili_Shark]

Woow! 8O

I dont understand why some of you guys becoming a field court and some of you are trying to judge Eric.
U wanna be judges, go and study, it takes VERY long time and ya got to be good at it, not just write post in here.

There is a LAW.
The law is black and white.

Did SDC break the law? No they did not.
They bought the fish IN the US, and did not smuggle them in.
They got invoice from their supplier as Clarion angels, I know for a fact that they invoice Clarion Angels for export , these invoices passed US customs and F&WL , they also did put the Clarion Angels in the Stock list ,all is clean, nothing is wrong here.

Now for all of you who are saying that Eric should have known , or should have guessed, or must have had an idea....that means Eric should have gone beyond the law , search and investigate , why dont you guys who say this go beyond the Mexican law of not fishing clarions in the Revillagigedo Islands which is just stxxxd , there is no logic behind it what so ever, why dont you guys say a word about this?

I dont know, but it seem this attack on Eric was more personal, I mean the first page of this thread just smells bad.

 

[sdcfish]

Thanks Vili Shark for your comments.

It's all cool with me....this just all goes with the territory. As I said before, we live and learn, and in this case, I should have been more careful and not involved the company with a situation like this and we have been more careful since.

Have a great weekend......it's hot in Los Angeles!

Eric

 

[Anonymous]

Glad to hear that Eric.


Guys, lets avoid writing stuff that amounts to 'I know something but cant tell'. It mires discussion in vague finger pointing and I don't think that serves anyone.


And if you don't want to be dragged into this discussion don't post and don't send pm's about this thread . If there is a problem with what someone has posted, tell me about it - its my job to deal with it.

 

[JT]

Did SDC break the law? No they did not.

In some states it's illegal to even possess certain species. Leopard Sharks in Florida is one such species. A FL customer of a certain wholesaler I used to work at, actually I know of three FL customers but I worked closely with this one, purchased leopard sharks from this wholesaler and was quite surprised when Fish & Wildlife confiscated the sharks and issued large fines for having them.

If they aren't illegal to have, which they are, why were a tank full confiscated from this same LA wholesaler by Fish and Game. Possessing contraband is "breaking the law" in my book.

Then there is the whole issue of ethical law concerning unsuitable species but we know greed is the main root of the problem.

Clarion's are the same as leopard sharks. If they weren't illegal, why'd they get confiscated? Possession is 9/10'ths of the law. If I bought stolen or illegal property, I'd go to jail for possessing the property. Why should this case be any different.

What would happen if you bought a case of Cuban cigars? This may seem like a pretty innocent thing but they are ILLEGAL to have in the US. It doesn't matter how you came about them.

I could go on but we all know that certain people are not purely innocent.

 

[Vili_Shark]

"I could go on but we all know that certain people are not purely innocent."

Does this include you?
Dont you have a motive writing all this about Eric?
Aint it a little personal, or maybe more than a little?

You dont have to answer that, people who want to know just have to read a couple of Clarions threads in this forum and can find out the answer for themselves.

I just got one question, if the Clarions are illegal to have, why did F&WL didnt do anything while stamping invoices day by day which contained Clarion Angels (a fact), all those invoices were approved by F&WL.

F&WL could if they wanted to track all these Clarions (at least the US) to the end buyer and confiscate them one by one, they did not do it.

 

[JT]

Dont you have a motive writing all this about Eric?

Nope, I have nothing personal against Eric nor SDC. Eric is a great guy and SDC was a great company to work for and has one of the better holding facilities in LA. I've said this before and I'll continue to stand by this. However, I do have issues with certain buying and business practices that I witnessed and I'm going to continue voicing my distain about this because they are unethical and I'm sorry if I have a higher moral standard.

The Clarions did not come into the US as Clarions. They originally came in as Juv. Passer angels, I saw the paperwork with my own eyes. It wasn't until someone purchased some Clarions and tried to export them as Clarions to points outside the US that F&W caught wind and raided LA wholesalers.

It's unfortunate that you can't see things as clearly and feel the strong need to come to Eric's defense. However, you won't identify yourself so I have no idea who I am talking to anyway.

 

[sdcfish]

JT and All,

In the past, JT has made many accusations similar to his last post. I am glad he finally came out with what he had been referring to. I had always wondered where he was coming up with this stuff.

Again, JT has misunderstood the facts of the situation and thus his posts reflect what he believes.

The facts are that the Clarion angels were not "confiscated" as he suggests. The fish that were in our possesion were "Voluntarily surrendered" at the request of US Fish and Wildlife. There was nothing illegal for us having bought or possesing them, just that they needed evidence for their case against the importer. Aside from the fish surrendered, all documents were provided to Fish and Wildlife as to where and how many were sold around the world. Nothing was hidden, no secrets...no alternative motives.

After a long discussion between myself and the US Fish and Wildlife Officer, it was requested that we surrender the Clarion angels to them. We of'course cooperated, but did not necessarily have to do so.

The leopard shark incident is also misunderstood by JT. The only time we have ever purchased leopard sharks since their regulation, was a few years ago. This one group of sharks had been imported legally from Mexico, and had total documentation from US Fish and Wildlife at the boarder admitting them into the U.S.

I had full paperwork of the US Fish and Wildlife documents along with a valid invoice.

I had called the same US Fish and Wildlife Officer to discuss the sharks to make sure we were all understanding the laws and regulations, but strangely enough, the law against leopard sharks is contradictive to itself, and although the US Fish and Wildlife office at the border allowed them to enter California, the possesion law was still enforced.

This is simply a case of one department being confused of the actual law because it was written rather vaguely.

I hope this answers some of JT's questions and he can stop the accusations that have been going on for years since his termination at SDC. No hard feelings JT, but I think you owe us an appology for not only these many unfounded accusations, but for previous actions that led to your dismissal.

As I wrote to you in your pm, I hoped that someday we could clear the air on those issues, and having you bring them out for myself and others to see finally opened my eyes to what you have been thinking all this time. Just a misunderstanding of the facts.

As far as the accusation about greed.....well....I think everyone in business wants to make money......but you better darn well do it fairly and legally....and that's what we have always done.

Best regards

 

[Anonymous]

It would be wonderful if JT and Eric could bury this particular hatchet. I also appreciate everyone keeping this civil.

Yes, even you, JT.

Peace,

Chip

 

[danieldm]

Vili_Shark-

There are a lot of unsubstantiated acqusations being thrown around by people that think they are in a position to know details. I, for one, was actually in a position to know details. I was involved in a start up business venture with Craig Lightner from December 2003 - July 2004. This is how I know that certain statements of fact made by Eric Cohen are not true. They are small statements, but made by Eric in an absolute nature. Such as;

Mitch,
We have allowed photos to be taken by both etailers and retailers. All we ask is that we are also allowed to use the photos and we don't charge people for taking pictures. We have never done this "after hours" except in one case when it was an x-employee setting up a combo retailer/etailer.

January of 2004, with Eric's permission, Craig Lightner and a photographer entered SDC on a Sunday evening around 9pm and proceeded to take several hundred pictures to be used in a new online retail site. Eric knew exactly why Craig was having the pictures taken. I know this as fact because I was the photographer. I have two CD's full of pictures to back up this claim. Anyone that has been inside SDC will recognize the interior. There is no one present, and the main lights are off. It is very obvious that the picture are being taken after hours.

We don't discriminate between a mail order company or a retailer as they are both selling to the same customer level, but we do have a more restrictive policy on minimum orders for etailers and we are more strict on our minimum order policys.

While I worked with Craig on this start up operation called West Coast Tropical Marine, we routinely used SDC to help fill the daily orders, and usually came no where near to order minimums. There were days when we wouldn't purchase more than a fish or two. At times I was paying Honduras Connection invoices at SDC with WCTM company checks. I can back this up with canceled checks, SDC invoices that cooraborate the checks, as well as the fact the I always noted in the memo that they were for Honduras Connection and the SDC invoice number.

While I was working with Craig, I was also privy to additional first hand information regarding the Clarion fiasco. I am hesitant to mention this type of information because it would be my word versus others. But, I am hoping that the copies of the court records that I have ordered (including things like depositions) will corraborate the things that I know as fact. This information may/may not concern SDC, but does concern other posters within this thread.

What I find unusual is that in several of my posts, where I mention what I believe to be the nature of the relationship between Eric and Craig, that Eric has chosen to totally ignore them by choosing not to respond.

If there is more to this Clarion story, which various poster's have said there isn't, it should be included in the court recordings, depositions and statements. If there isn't any smoking gun burried in the documents, I will gladly post that information as well.

 

[JT]

Whatever Eric, I don't owe you or anyone else an apology. But, I will stop discussing this topic as it is all you really want anyway. I know what I saw and what I heard but, as I have said before, it is only my word against yours and you spin it better than I do so you've won. Congrats.

I'm done.

 

[sdcfish]

Daniel.....? I think you are Daniel?

Simply that I have no idea why you would think I would let a guy like Craig Lightner nor anyone else for that matter come into SDC after hours like you suggest. NOBODY except for management is allowed to be in the warehouse.....

I guess I would not be surprised if Craig did swindle his way in there and try to sweet talk one of the managers on a late Sunday night.....but that has nothing to do with me giving him permission to do so.

It's just absurd your statements.....and I am not really sure why you would think that I would allow something like that.

Either way, you are talking about photos and I have already said that I have always been open to anyone who asks me if they want to take pictures. I am very easy going about that and other things....so no big deal.

If I have not answered your questions, then please feel free to ask them again.....either here or pm. I am always willing to be open and honest about these matters.

Best regards

 

[danieldm]

Daniel.....? I think you are Daniel?

No, not Daniel. Notice my sig, "Marc". Did you think I was the "Daniel" that worked umpteen years for Craig...the Daniel who's wife worked for you?

Simply that I have no idea why you would think I would let a guy like Craig Lightner nor anyone else for that matter come into SDC after hours like you suggest. NOBODY except for management is allowed to be in the warehouse.....
I guess I would not be surprised if Craig did swindle his way in there and try to sweet talk one of the managers on a late Sunday night.....but that has nothing to do with me giving him permission to do so.
It's just absurd your statements.....and I am not really sure why you would think that I would allow something like that.

Well, that certainly explains why the heavy set female blond employee approached us that night and said "are one of you Craig?" To which Craig replied "I am", to which your employee replied "here, I was told to give you this check when you came by tonight to take some pictures".

That explains Monday morning when we were driving out of SDC as you were driving in (in your dark green pickup) and stopped to talk to Craig. During the conversation you asked Craig if he got his check last night and asked how long he had been there taking pictures.

When interviewers/interrogators are working on a subject one of the best tools to use is what is known as kinesic interview and interrogation. It works so well due to how the brain stores a memory. When someone is reliving a factual event, they have no problem jumping around the event timeline and their story never wavers. But when someone isn't telling the truth, they remember the "story" in segments. They have great difficulty remembering the segments in the same order, over & over. So slowly their story starts to change. When confronted with truths that they simply cannot counter, they ignore or dismiss the truth and then try to twist the interviewers question back upon them. Sort of like you are doing. If we go back through all of the various threads since the Clarion debacle, it's fairly easy to see your story shift. If you would care, for the sake of clarity, I will happily spend several hours diagramming your statements and pointing out the shifts/inaccuracies.

If I have not answered your questions, then please feel free to ask them again.....either here or pm. I am always willing to be open and honest about these matters.

Why would you answer a portion of my post that you can twist into a positive light, but ignore my most damaging statement. You've done this several times. You just did it again in your most recent post by ignoring a major portion of my post.

So, here I go out on a limb and risk getting banned.

Eric. I am not out on a vendetta against you or SDC. If you hadn't started posting "spin control" untruths I would never have posted myself. You and I both know that everything that I am saying is the truth, and I could easily back my allegations up with evidence. If you would simply stop posting your spin control attempts, I'll let you off the hook easily. But if you choose to continue with this charade you will force me to start posting factual evidence that you simply cannot refute. This does neither of us any good, and certainly not you.

In my opinion, you are part of the disease in this industry, and certainly not part of the cure. Please take my offer, I have far better things to do that put together a profile on you.

 

[JT]

Eric. I am not out on a vendetta against you or SDC. If you hadn't started posting "spin control" untruths I would never have posted myself. You and I both know that everything that I am saying is the truth, and I could easily back my allegations up with evidence. If you would simply stop posting your spin control attempts, I'll let you off the hook easily. But if you choose to continue with this charade you will force me to start posting factual evidence that you simply cannot refute. This does neither of us any good, and certainly not you.

In my opinion, you are part of the disease in this industry, and certainly not part of the cure. Please take my offer, I have far better things to do that put together a profile on you.

Bravo. My senitments exactly and the same reasons I've continued posting when I could have chosen not to and let sleeping dogs be. I couldn't have said any of this better myself.