Sea Dragons?

[Rascal]

On that other forum, in one of the vendor forums, a store in VA posted a few pics of their new acquisition...a pair of sea dragons. Really stunning fish. Can any of you west coast guys attest to their availibility?

 

[Anonymous]

8O didn't think those were available at all.

 

[Rascal]

They are weedys...not leafys. I believe there is a distinction made in terms of the legalities, but I'm not sure.

 

[Anonymous]

I do know where he gets his live mysids

 

[Rascal]

Hmmm, do tell

 

[Anonymous]

I do know where he gets his live mysids

anyone we know?

 

[Anonymous]

 

[desheriff]

Any idea of how much they paid for them?
Steve

 

[Rascal]

In the thread on the other forum, he only says that they cost 'more than a gem tang', as there's been a lot of discussion about them as well.

 

[Anonymous]

In the thread on the other forum, he only says that they cost 'more than a gem tang', as there's been a lot of discussion about them as well.

(that takes that off my Christmas list)

 

[Rascal]

:lol: I could definitely sell a few though if I could find a source.

 

[Anonymous]

Used to be ~5K for em.

 

[Rascal]

That's the ballpark I was thinking. Any idea who's door I should knock on?

 

[jhemdal1]

Used to be ~5K for em.

Two years ago, leafy seadragons cost around $2500 landed and weedies were less than $1k. Leafies are available once a year as captive raised juveniles from one person who has permits to ship them. Weedies are available from a couple of sources as wild caught adults. IMO the husbandry of these has not been worked out sufficiently to make them good bets, even for public aquariums. The weedies are actually more delicate. We just lost one that we kept for 8 years. We actually acquired it from the pet industry - somebody imported it and then decided they couldn't care for it.

Jay Hemdal

p.s. - here is an excerpt from my "Advanced Marine Aquarium Techniques" book that discusses them:

Weedy seadragon (Common seadragon)
Phyllopteryx taeniolatus
Maximum size: 45 cm
Habitat: kelp beds, open sand areas
Range: South Australia
Only a few captive raised animals have been available. This species requires a dedicated, chilled aquarium and a consistent supply of live mysid shrimp (Although many specimens can eventually be trained to feed on frozen mysids. They are prone to an Uronema-like protozoan disease as well as bacterial infections. Combine this with a dealer cost of over $600, and you have a fish that really only belongs in public aquariums. The even more fantastic looking leafy seadragon is four times more expensive.



Here is something I've written for the second edition of that book:

Leafy seadragon
Phycodurus eques
Maximum size: 35 cm
Habitat: Subtropical reefs near kelp
Range: South Australia
Perhaps the most magnificent of all the fishes, with a $2300 importer’s cost, the leafy seadragon is also the most expensive fish available (aside from large sharks or other special exhibit animals). Not available in the United States, at least two dealers in Japan offer this species to home aquarists. All leafy seadragons available come from a single source: a company in Australia that has a permit to collect male seadragons that are holding eggs bring them back to captivity and raise the young. The adult fish (and possibly some of the young) are then returned to the ocean. The juvenile leafy seadragons are available early each year and are distributed when they are about 8 cm in length. These fish require water temperatures near 62 degrees Fahrenheit, live mysid shrimp as a starter food, and redundant life support systems (in order to protect their great investment cost). Older seadragons will learn to feed on frozen mysids, but live mysids may still be required to entice an ailing seadragon to feed. Due to their high cost and propensity for developing health problems, these fish should not be acquired unless one has access to suitable veterinary services to serve in a supportive fashion.

 

[sdcfish]

Thanks Jay for the post.....

These sea dragons are probably not for the private aquarist, but I don't think there are any regulations saying someone couldn't purchase one.

Hopefully, some of the public aquariums that have them, will soon be able to raise them up. I have heard of eggs being hatched from the Long Beach Aquarium....Aquarium of the Pacific.

Anyway.......love these guys and it's a joy to see them. For sure one of my favorite exhibits anywhere.

Best regards

 

[Anonymous]

Used to be ~5K for em.

Two years ago, leafy seadragons cost around $2500 landed and weedies were less than $1k. Leafies are available once a year as captive raised juveniles from one person who has permits to ship them. Weedies are available from a couple of sources as wild caught adults. IMO the husbandry of these has not been worked out sufficiently to make them good bets, even for public aquariums. The weedies are actually more delicate. We just lost one that we kept for 8 years. We actually acquired it from the pet industry - somebody imported it and then decided they couldn't care for it.

Jay Hemdal

p.s. - here is an excerpt from my "Advanced Marine Aquarium Techniques" book that discusses them:

Weedy seadragon (Common seadragon)
Phyllopteryx taeniolatus
Maximum size: 45 cm
Habitat: kelp beds, open sand areas
Range: South Australia
Only a few captive raised animals have been available. This species requires a dedicated, chilled aquarium and a consistent supply of live mysid shrimp (Although many specimens can eventually be trained to feed on frozen mysids. They are prone to an Uronema-like protozoan disease as well as bacterial infections. Combine this with a dealer cost of over $600, and you have a fish that really only belongs in public aquariums. The even more fantastic looking leafy seadragon is four times more expensive.



Here is something I've written for the second edition of that book:

Leafy seadragon
Phycodurus eques
Maximum size: 35 cm
Habitat: Subtropical reefs near kelp
Range: South Australia
Perhaps the most magnificent of all the fishes, with a $2300 importer’s cost, the leafy seadragon is also the most expensive fish available (aside from large sharks or other special exhibit animals). Not available in the United States, at least two dealers in Japan offer this species to home aquarists. All leafy seadragons available come from a single source: a company in Australia that has a permit to collect male seadragons that are holding eggs bring them back to captivity and raise the young. The adult fish (and possibly some of the young) are then returned to the ocean. The juvenile leafy seadragons are available early each year and are distributed when they are about 8 cm in length. These fish require water temperatures near 62 degrees Fahrenheit, live mysid shrimp as a starter food, and redundant life support systems (in order to protect their great investment cost). Older seadragons will learn to feed on frozen mysids, but live mysids may still be required to entice an ailing seadragon to feed. Due to their high cost and propensity for developing health problems, these fish should not be acquired unless one has access to suitable veterinary services to serve in a supportive fashion.

Yup, wholesale, but I was talking retail . Last time I went to a public aquarium, they weren't reselling their livestock. It is true that most public aquaria have to pay more on the wholesale side, due to passing those nasty PO's that can take forever to get, but it's still a far cry to what a hobbyist could expect to pay You say $600 in that quote? So it's export price is closer to $300, or you talking $600 export cost, not including freight, CITES, etc?

 

[Rascal]

Jay - Thanks for the input. You mentioned that you just lost a weedie. Do you know why?

I am in the process of installing a private exhibit and am considering approximately 8 specimens. Potentially we could be ready for them in 7 or 8 months, but without a definitive source I am left in a quandry. Can anyone offer anything in addition to what has been mentioned.

 

[jhemdal1]

Rascal,

We are still waiting on the histopathology reports. My guess is mycobacteriosis - a safe guess for many old fish that die <grin>. Uronema has been a huge issue with weedies in the past, but this fish did not have the symptoms of that, and none protozoans were seen post-mortem.


Jay

 

[jhemdal1]

These sea dragons are probably not for the private aquarist, but I don't think there are any regulations saying someone couldn't purchase one.

Hopefully, some of the public aquariums that have them, will soon be able to raise them up. I have heard of eggs being hatched from the Long Beach Aquarium....Aquarium of the Pacific.

Hi Eric,

No, there are no regulations that apply to seadragons and private aquarists that don't also apply to public aquarists. The one weedy seadragon that we have left was from the batch raised by Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach.

Jay Hemdal

 

[desheriff]

[edited