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KKohen

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Mitch,
I really don’t think this can be twisted around into not trusting our customers, as we surely do. Have there been isolated cases where it was important for us to take action against unsubstantiated claims made by individuals that we can’t even verify if they are even a customer of ours? Sure there are.

Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith
 

dizzy

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Kevin,
Please take the time to read this short article and you will see the problem of people not being honest is more prevalent than you might realize. We certainly see it at the retail level. I think what you are doing is making it easy for people to steal. Are you guys really that naive?

http://shopliftingprevention.org/TheIssue.htm


The Shoplifting Problem In The Nation

Shoplifting is our nation’s “silent crime”. Parents don’t want to believe it, schools don’t address it, retailers don’t want to talk about it, police don’t want to respond to it, courts don’t want to deal with it and the people who do the shoplifting either rationalize it as “no big deal” or are too ashamed or too afraid to admit it.

As a result, shoplifting has become one of the most prevalent crimes in the U.S., averaging about 550,000 incidents per day resulting in more than $13 billion worth of goods being stolen from retailers each year. That is more than $35 million in losses per day. Current estimates are as high as 1 in 11 Americans who shoplift in our nation today.

Even with all the advances in security measures, shoplifters are only caught once in 49 times they steal and when caught, turned over to the police only 50% of the time. This is due, in part, to the fact that there is a trend away from shoplifter apprehension and prosecution by retailers, law enforcement and the courts as a way to cope with increasing costs, time issues and legal liability. These issues and others lead to the majority of shoplifting incidents going unrecognized, unreported and unresolved. . .thereby perpetuating the problem. Even so, reported shoplifting offenses are currently on the rise according to the FBI Crime Index.

The shoplifting dilemma is compounded by the fact that the crime is primarily committed by otherwise law-abiding citizens enticed by the temptation and opportunity to “get something for nothing” which presents itself as part of everyday life. More than 10 million people have been caught shoplifting in the last five years. This situation reflects an inherent defect in our societal values which opens a gateway to corrupt our youth and weaken our nation.

Shoplifting has traditionally been treated as a retail industry-specific problem to be prevented exclusively by the retail victims themselves. While it is true that shoplifting’s most visible costs are to the retail industry, it is clearly not solely a retail industry problem as many would like to believe. Shoplifting hurts entire communities. Consider. . .

The higher prices consumers must pay to cover the losses from theft.


The inconvenience and invasiveness of security measures to consumers when shopping in stores.


The loss of community jobs when stores are forced to close.


The loss of local and state sales tax revenue resulting in higher taxes for everyone.


The added burden on the police and the courts.


The added financial and emotional hardship placed on families resulting from the arrest of a parent or child.


The corruption of our youth and our future, when dishonesty is not effectively addressed at its most fundamental level.
Shoplifting has become a social issue in need of a community response because shoplifting steals from all of us. Providing an overarching, active community response to shoplifting is essential to the future welfare of our society because the crime directly affects so many people. Without comprehensive community action we will continue to undermine current crime prevention efforts, suffer economic loss and family hardship and weaken the values of honesty, integrity and character in our youth and our future.

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Two Types of Shoplifters

Professionals: People who steal for resale and profit, as a lifestyle.

Non-professionals: People who steal from retail stores but are, for the most part, otherwise decent, law-abiding citizens.

Non-professional shoplifters account for the majority of shoplifters in our nation today. These people are consumers who generally know right from wrong and often have the money to pay for the items they steal. Most steal only occasionally (casual shoplifters) but approximately 1/3 have formed a habit or addiction (habitual shoplifters) which compels them to steal daily or at least weekly. Their behavior is less related to criminal intent but more the result of situational, emotional or psychological problems in need of attention and the current national culture which treats shoplifting as “no big deal” leading people to rationalize that it is somehow “okay”.


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Understanding the Act of Shoplifting by Consumers

The great majority of people respect property rights and do not steal. While some people comply with standards of honesty for moral reasons, others conform because they fear ostracism or punitive action.

At each end of the consumer spectrum there are small groups of people with diametrically opposing attitudes towards stealing. A small percentage of people are so honest they are rarely even tempted and would never give in even if they were. Another small percentage of the population would steal anything, anytime. In between, there is a massive group of normally honest people who may be influenced to steal under certain circumstances. Within this group, come the hoards of non-professional shoplifters who are inflicting tremendous losses upon the retail industry and stealing from the quality of life of the communities in which they live.

The act of shoplifting by non-professional shoplifters is made up of three basic components; temptation, justification and motivation.

Temptation

- The desire to have or do something that you know you should avoid.

- When tempted, the shoplifter asks, “Should I take this item?”

The urge to have more than basic needs lurks within most people. The urge to “have” or “get”, particularly without having to give something in return, is innately appealing to most people. This is what is often called the desire to “get something for nothing”.
This explains why people love to get gifts and consumers love to find bargains or big sales.

However, society has created moral and legal taboos that make it generally very difficult to get something for nothing and stay within the rules. For most, the urge to get something for nothing by breaking the social code is suppressed by fear of committing a sin, fear of a damaged reputation, fear of ostracism, fear of punishment and even fear of causing harm to someone else.

The Consumer Dilemma - Suppose, however, a consumer could satisfy the urge to “have” without spending any money, without hurting anybody and without society finding out. To a person who shoplifts, if it doesn’t really hurt anyone it diminishes the moral fear. If no one finds out it completely eliminates any social or punitive repercussions.

The development of the modern self-service retail environment took down the barriers between customers and merchandise and caused more normally honest people who know stealing is wrong, to wonder if they could satisfy the urge to “have” without repercussion. This is temptation.


Justification

- Something that shows an action to be reasonable, necessary or okay.

- Under justification the shoplifter asks, “Is it bad; will anyone get hurt?”

Our nation faces a social enigma where millions of people are stealing billions of dollars worth of merchandise but do not consider themselves to be criminals. Consumers who shoplift have the ability to establish separate values when in the stores from that which they generally live by in day to day life. For example, most consumers who shoplift would never take a $20 bill from their neighbor’s house even if given the opportunity.

Justification is the precept used by consumers to tell themselves there is really nothing wrong with taking merchandise from a “store”. People must find some rationale which allows them to take the merchandise and still remain convinced they are not criminals. They must rationalize that the act of taking merchandise will not really hurt anyone. Although the rationalization used by a consumer who steals must have some semblance of logic, when a person is angry or emotional, justification can be accepted with less logic. “If the checkout line hadn’t been so long, I wouldn’t have taken the stuff”. There is, of course, nothing logical about coming to the conclusion that a long checkout line is a license to steal.

People who are under stress as a result of an incident in the store or because of some personal problem are more prone to accept irrational justification. They look around the store, see thousands of different items worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and find no trouble convincing themselves that taking a few things will not really hurt anybody. Typical justifications for shoplifting are:

“They will not miss what I take.”
“The stores have made plenty of money off me in the past.”
“The big guys take plenty; I am entitled to a little bit.”
“The checkout lines are too long.”
“Prices are too high.”
“Everybody else takes things.”
“I am entitled to some of the good things in life.”
“My family is entitled to some of the good things in life.”

This, of course, is a partial list. The reasons people develop to justify their shoplifting are endless.

Temptation is the urge to “have”, to get something for nothing, and is linked directly to justification. Both temptation and justification involve a thought process relating to desire and acceptability. The third step in the shoplifting act is motivation.


Motivation

- That which gives direction to behavior.

- At the motivation stage the shoplifter asks ”Will I get caught and will anything bad happen to me if I do get caught?”

A person can have temptation and justification but without the motivation the act of shoplifting can not exist. Motivation involves action. The determination that no one is watching is the primary motivation for “honest” consumers to steal. They want the item, they use irrational justification to tell themselves they aren’t hurting anyone and then determine if they can get the item without fear of negative consequence. If so, the shoplifting act takes place.

In summary, consumers who shoplift often give in to temptation because of irrational justifications which, in part, come from a lack of understanding as to how shoplifting relates to society and themselves. They don’t understand (or allow themselves to believe) that anyone really gets hurt and that shoplifting steals from all of us. They erroneously believe the stores can afford the losses and that they won’t get caught.
 

KKohen

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Mitch,

Thank you for sharing with us the link and the article on shoplifting.

It is very important for me to utilize my time in a very productive manner. Spending hours on this message forum is justifiable, as long as it can actually add something of sustenance or importance. Helping to educate some of the patrons or readers about the husbandry of the animals, or at least make people think about the industry in a different way, fits that bill.

More often than not words or statements made by people are picked apart and twisted in a manner that conjures up controversy. I feel this is counterproductive, and something that I simply do not have time for.

I respectfully request that you understand the reasons why I feel this kind of interaction in your last few posts is counterproductive to this forum and this thread, and thank you for your understanding.

Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith
 

dizzy

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Kevin,
I understand, but I think this very thread was counterproductive. I think those of us in the industry realize it was posted in a taunting manner. We all realize that QM dropping shipping for you eliminates the cost of having the livestock shipped to the retail store, thus you can replace livestock and still realize the same profit margins (or more) than most of us get. I think on average my freight cost put another 20-25% on top of the cost of the livestock, so when you transfer that cost to the customer then yes you can replace a lot of dead livestock, even if the customer is at fault. My friendly advice to you is to ask Race not to start these type of threads if you think they are not productive or educational. When you intentionally rub salt in wounds it generates a negative response.
Thanks,
Mitch
 
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IMO, what really ticks me off is when Liveaquaria brings in Blue Linkia stars and Moorish Idols nothing is said to them, but If I brought in Blue Linkia Stars and Moorish Idols, I get slammed for it.

As I peruse some of the forums, Reefcentral and reefs.org, I dont post much but I notice that most LFS get stereotyped. I personally believe I keep my store clean, fish healthy that it is presentable to the people, but somehow, I'm just the same as the Petco even if they have never walked into my business. I also sell fish alot cheaper than Etailers and most stores around my area, but somehow as an LFS, Im instantly considered expensive and a con-artist

That is what truly ticks me off. I offer a 5 day guarantee but with water test. I do not have control of my fish once it is sold and what situations they go through.

To Liveaquaria: Do you not get the idea that some guy out there just might be scamming you? Lets say they bought a hippo tang and 5 cleaner shrimp and he says they all died on arrival and you instantly refund them, but he ends up still having the Blue Hippo Tang and the 5 Cleaner shrimp? As a big company, I can see that a Blue Hippo and 5 Cleaner shrimp cant really put a mark on you, but what about rare divers den fish? I've seen your Reefcentral sponsor forum and you refund without proof. Everything you guys do is very convenient to your customers and you never fail to impress.
 
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I guess i'll add on, and try and answer Race's questions.

Personally i have seen no problems with returns or exchanges with any of my livestock, You will have some problems with people who wish to abuse the policy, but I do trust my live stock, and my suppliers. Generally i dont deal with the Cali suppliers, i would rather get my stock direct and through the fewest hands possible. My Stock comes in Spotless, they come in, they eat, they are out.

Returns come from other tank mates, and aggression. We do have the problem of the fish becoming infected after leaving our tanks. All while they have been spotless while in our holding tanks for weeks. What can you really do though? Denying the customer the return, turns them away, and you lose out.

Refunding the money completely forces you to lose the fish, the profit made from the fish. This is what i think hurts and scares a lot of the retailers out of allowing a long 30 day return. Giving credit for the fish seems to be the best option, You get something back, and so does the customer. We allow most returns to extend about 14 days, generally we dont give full refunds, because the customer is okay with store credit. Retaining the customer for future purchases. Returns are out of 'anger'

We have a very loose return policy, just bring them back. I think the perception of most lfs owners, or online providers is that the tank the fish ends up in isn't as clean, or (what i think it is) the fish just had to leave the store. They dont want it back, they just want it out. I think the owners need to do a better job of taking care of the live stock they get so they dont have to 'push' off the fish to the customer. We feed them before they buy no matter what. If it was eating in my tank, why wasn't it eating in the customers?

I feel like the lack of livestock warranty in LFS works to the other LFS's advantage as long as they can take advantage of it.

This is exactly what Race did. How many cities dont have a quality LFS?...every city has UPS though.

Race you have the money to put up the warranty thats what it really comes down to. Liveaquaria has a legal team...a team of lawyers....your 1500 dollar crosshatch is pennies! If i had the pockets like Race, i would offer the same warranty. Race seems to understand the business aspect very clearly, just when you have smaller pockets you can't make any errors.

At the end of the day. Returns hurt the LFS more than Deaths. I would much rather scoop out the 30 dollar angel, than refund a new customer his 150 dollar Angel.

The fish all come from the same place. its who handles them who messes up the fish.

What i really would like to know from you Race, is how many fish do you really push?
 

Raskal311

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I think most retail shop has figured out an unconditional live guarantee isn’t viable. I’ve only seen one shop try to do this and one can easily see it was out of desperation; needless to say this particular shop isn’t around anymore.

We handle each situation on an individual basis and we try to be very reasonable with replacements and refunds. Anytime we decide we can’t replace or refund a fish we try to make sure the customer understands why.
 

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