Drs. Foster and Smith in Target Stores Near You

[Anonymous]

If the hobby folds, I will look for enjoyment elsewhere.

Hmmmm, interesting thought. If the hobby folds, I'll have to buy stuff online.



Can you provide everything I need?

 

[Race]

SeaHorse,
I am a niche marketer. Someone will provide everything you need but perhaps not everything you want.

 

[swsaltwater]

The free advice problem has been a problem since at least when I started working at LFS in the 80's - only then it wasn't that the customers went online, they went to the cheaper LFS down the street or across town.
Is there a better way to offer service? I heard of a store that thought about charging admission to scare off looky loos, but I don't know if they went through with it.

I don't mind looky loos as most just simply say just checking it out. heck some come back in a few months to get a nano and sometimes a large tank. I consider them future customers in a way, it's the ones that just got a used system or a petco system and really can't afford this hobby that do the free advice and buy elsewhere. I don't mind if they buy at a cheaper LFS btw. They always come around once they realize I price match and all the fish die from those low ball LFS's or big box stores that do not medicate properly and do dont have good systems. Same issue with drop shippers, you get direct from a wholesaler with lot of parasites. Eventually I get em back or they exit the hobby as a result.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

Sorry I've been gone and missed this post.

First wild, now AC? Why are you here?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Just Dave,
Your post on retention is one of the best on this entire thread.

Kalk,
The largest selling SKU's for any internet livestock seller are the simple livestock packages. This is a fact. Do you think the advanced aquarist is the purchaser of these ? The starter nano type packages are one of the number one selling items for the hardgoods selling etailer. Do you think the advanced hobbyist is the major market here ? This is a fact as well and every industry vendor will vouch that such is the case.

Let the poorly run B&M and Etailers fall and the hobby will be serviced by the new world survivors.

Its usually not until after they have had their hand held by the LFS for several weeks that they have the confidence to go behind advice of the retailerand add multiple items all at once.(adding to much at once to a new tank , is usually not encouraged by most LFS)
I'm curious,
Its easy for me as a walk in retailer to ask the customers what stage they are at with their reef tank . We pretty much know at what point in the hobby the customer is at when we bag something up for them to take home.
I try to ask every customer how they heard about our store and how they got interested in the hobby.

Does FS ever asked LA customers how they found out about the hobby? and if it was one one of your F&S websites or from your Wisconsin retail store?

 

[Race]

No we do not Kalk and I would guess the retailers do not either. It is not important to our database. I look at it like this. As a veterinarian I do not get someone interested in dogs and cats. Once they make the decision to obtain one, I will serve them. By the way, we need fewer dogs and cats in this country too.
I am not going to argue with you any longer on this matter because it is not important to me or the hobby, IMO. I am fine with the retailers creating all of the business and me taking it, if you choose to believe that. There will always be retailers and I will be more than happy to serve their customers. Actually, the big box you hate, create the majority of the retail customers, not the pony tail shops.
I wish you would get your web site up to snuff so we can directly battle it out. If you want to be a major player it should only take another $500,000.00 or so to get it professional and consumer friendly, with an ongoing maintenance and improvement cost of $225,000.00 per year. Low overhead type of thing you know.

I am heading to the Equine Nationals, then the Billings Livestock Exchange, so no more posts from me for a few weeks. While I am gone-- Promote aquaculture--------Race

 

[Anonymous]

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

Sorry I've been gone and missed this post.

First wild, now AC? Why are you here?

Did you see the post where he says that he tells customers in stores not to buy anything?

 

[Anonymous]

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

Sorry I've been gone and missed this post.

First wild, now AC? Why are you here?

Did you see the post where he says that he tells customers in stores not to buy anything?

Sure did. If I owned any of his local stores I'd have his picture posted as some one not allowed in my store. Wonder if he does this at the store where his son slangs juiced fish?

 

[Anonymous]

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

Sorry I've been gone and missed this post.

First wild, now AC? Why are you here?

Not trying to speak for Wayne here, but I'm wondering if I'm the only one who understood what he actually said. He wrote:

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

..by which I took it to mean that he thinks if the species is commercially available via aquaculture then it should no longer be legal to import said species from the wild. Sort of a shotgun approach to supporting aquaculture by eliminating the availability of wild-caught animals of the same species as those produced via aquaculture.

 

[Anonymous]

What he wrote and what he intended to write are very differnet. Your way of reading it is how he intended I am sure, but that is NOT how he crafted those words together. There is only one way to read it how it is written, sorry. You can read into it but that doesn't change the fact it is not written that way

I hate fish
and
I hate no fish

The missing "no" changes the entire meaning of those two sentances, just like the missing words in Wayne's sentance I quoted. The missing "wild caught" prior to the word fish would have changed it to be how you read into it.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

Sorry I've been gone and missed this post.

First wild, now AC? Why are you here?

Not trying to speak for Wayne here, but I'm wondering if I'm the only one who understood what he actually said. He wrote:

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

..by which I took it to mean that he thinks if the species is commercially available via aquaculture then it should no longer be legal to import said species from the wild. Sort of a shotgun approach to supporting aquaculture by eliminating the availability of wild-caught animals of the same species as those produced via aquaculture.

heh i first reacted like gresham, and then i understood it like cj

however-htt fails to understand that aquaculture has NEVER been able to keep up with demand, and that most captive bred species that were mass repoduced on a semi large scale rapidly deteriorated in quality-clowns begin to misbar in a relatively very few generations, along with physical deformities

i doubt if it's also commercially viable enough to even do large scale on a continuing basis


i've never seen a captive bred perc look anywhere near as nice as a wild caught, after only 1/2 dozen generations-might be diet, who knows?

 

[swsaltwater]

The reason the captive percs get deformities is due to poor breeding practices IMO. You need to keep track of the gene pools. I think a lot of breeders paired up siblings after a few generations. Plus natural selection does not get rid of the odd ones. I personally like the extreme misbars and "Picasso clowns" that you never see in the wild.

 

[naesco]

So what is wrong with prohibiting coral, fish and inverts imports where aquacultured species are available?

To be clear, the import of aquacultured species should still continue.

Have you considered that if industry were forced to purchase species that can be aquacultured, those that engage in aquaculture could than proceed sufficient quantities to meet demand.

Consider something like in 10 months wild clowns could not be imported. Would that not give the aquaculture business enough time to gear up so to speak.

Wayne Ryan

 

[naesco]

One more question.

Why is it that almost all freshwater fish are aquacultured?

Did they 'lose bars' or not look as nice as the wild species formerly available?

I don't see deformed freshwater fish in the LFS's tanks.

Wayne Ryan

 

[naesco]

I think the time has come to prohibit the import of fish, coral and inverts that have proven to be sucessfully aquacultured.

Sorry I've been gone and missed this post.

First wild, now AC? Why are you here?

Did you see the post where he says that he tells customers in stores not to buy anything?

Sure did. If I owned any of his local stores I'd have his picture posted as some one not allowed in my store. Wonder if he does this at the store where his son slangs juiced fish?

We don't blackball environmentalists here in Canada. Ever heard of Greenpeace? or Dr. Suzuki?

 

[Anonymous]

One more question.

Why is it that almost all freshwater fish are aquacultured?

Did they 'lose bars' or not look as nice as the wild species formerly available?

I don't see deformed freshwater fish in the LFS's tanks.

Wayne Ryan

what on earth makes you think that 'almost all freshwater fish are aquacultured'?

MANY of the fw fish sold in the MO biz are wild caught and held on farms-not aquacultured

clown loaches-one of the most popular and widely sold fish are a prime example-kuhli loaches as well

most of the funkier plecos/loricarids/peckoltia are wild caught as well-the blue eyed pleco was caught and its environment trashed to the point of extinction for the purposes of the mo biz

even with wild caught, i've seen PLENTY of deformed fish-it happens in nature far more frequently than you're aware-you don't see them in store's tanks because a: decent wholesalers won't send 'em, and a store that gets one will most likely deep six it before ever showing it in store

and no- after a dozen or so generations, they don't look as nice either

 

[Anonymous]

So what is wrong with prohibiting coral, fish and inverts imports where aquacultured species are available?To be clear, the import of aquacultured species should still continue.

Have you considered that if industry were forced to purchase species that can be aquacultured, those that engage in aquaculture could than proceed sufficient quantities to meet demand.

Consider something like in 10 months wild clowns could not be imported. Would that not give the aquaculture business enough time to gear up so to speak.

Wayne Ryan

a:it's not 'wrong' per se-simply not do-able/practical
b:wrong-things are simply NOT that simple

once again-you have a waaay overly simplistic and incomplete understanding of the industry logistics/practicalities involved

do you think that someone just says 'poof', and they can start raising sw fish by the millions? :lol:

i'm pretty sure that c-quest (iirc) out of PR was one of the largest ever clownfish producers in it's day, (early/mid 90's) and they provided but a drop in the bucket of the consumer demand

do you have ANY idea just how many fish of the various species are imported/bought sold weekly in the us alone (averaged over the year)?

like most 'hobbyists' you have no clue as to the scale of things/amounts involved in the MO biz

it takes YEARS to develop a large scale clownfish ops to a point of mass production on the scale needed, and even longer for it to turn a profit-it's why local/small clownfish breeders can stay fairly succesful (but mostly to the point of just sustaining their biz and paying for their hobby)

plus- the amount of species that lend themselves to practical in house procreation is fairly small

wild caught larval rearing is a necessity for most species (tangs,angels etc) re: ' non wild caught'-and there are ops out there today that indeed market 'tank raised' tangs and other species that are raised from larvae into aquariums and fed artificial foods as soon as they are able to eat them

no one's about to force ayone to do anything-and if such were the case-this (the 'organized' larger wholesale ops) biz would fold up overnite, and you'd end up with a whole slew of less scrupulous smaller scale ops individuals 'smuggling' stuff into their respective countries with absolutely NO oversight (cites etc) involved

you really need to educate yourself about the true workings of the industry you so 'loudly' criticize all the time-you really know so little about what it really is/does/how it works :idea:

 

[Anonymous]

Seahorses have been CITIES protected and the CB industry has been able to supply the demand. Although the demand for seahorses is much smaller than clownfish, of course.

A few home breeders have taken up the task of supplying them, plus a few large operations.

I think if we are willing to pay more, we could have more CB available.

Too bad we can't frag fish.

 

[bookfish]

Seahorses have been CITIES protected and the CB industry has been able to supply the demand. Although the demand for seahorses is much smaller than clownfish, of course.

A few home breeders have taken up the task of supplying them, plus a few large operations.

I think if we are willing to pay more, we could have more CB available.

Too bad we can't frag fish.

While I agree with your sentiment, I believe far, far more wild seahorses are sold into the hobby than captive bred. Cites protection doesn't prohibit export, it just controls it,...maybe...some...-Jim

 

[Anonymous]

Really? We have over a dozen LFS here and I haven't been able to find any since 2005.