Any lfs up to getting a listserv together to post mortality rates on orders to one another. I find that wholesalers are streaky on quality and think we can see who has good suppliers at the time. I use to get good quality from Underwater World but then we started seeing mortality and I quit them when an order was 35% DOA and the rest DAA over 3 days. They refused compensasion(only reason why I stopped using them, every dealer has ba orders from time to time but how they deal with them is key). I recently tried Quality and sucked up my pride since they were the only dealer with a decent stock list during holidays and can say I am impressed, only 3 DOA chromis and 2 DAA Cleaner wrasse first night and they credit all DOAs. I am still QT'ing fish from my previous order for Uronema but QM seems to be uronema free. They mentioned they just changed 200 UV bulbs so maybe that helped! The purpose of list is not to bash any wholesalers as all of them see issues from time to time as do most stores. It is more of a way to see trends and order from the dealers wih low mortality. Anyone up for it?
Mortality Rates
- Thread starter swsaltwater
- Start date
Quality Marine fish and coral are excellent. There are some sources to which I cannot afford to apply our World Class---- 14 day Arrive Alive, Stay Alive Guarantee. QM is one of the best and I have been guaranteeing the health of their livestock for over seven years running.
As a hobbyist, I would not buy a fish or coral without a long guarantee,---- especially in this economy where poor quality specimens are hitting the market with increasing numbers.
LiveAquaria.com-------Race
As a hobbyist, I would not buy a fish or coral without a long guarantee,---- especially in this economy where poor quality specimens are hitting the market with increasing numbers.
LiveAquaria.com-------Race
swsaltwater,
I've tracked mortality rates on and off since 1985. I generally go post-40 days from importation as I've found that igives the most meaningful data, the exponential curve really flattens out by that time (or all the fish are dead by then!)
I see three major problems: One is the liability of "naming names". I for one would never publicly attribute a mortality rate to a given company. Conversely, who is to stop somebody from posting horrible data from a competing importer just to skew their data?
The second problem is mortality rates are going to vary depending on what stock the people order - some are more savvy at avoiding problem fish than others. A person who routinely orders 3/4" green chromis at the 100 lot special is going to lose most to Uronema or starvation. A different person who knows this could order a related fish from Fiji @ $6 ea. and might have zero morts.
The third problem I already alluded to - as far as most dealers are concerned, the mortality rate ends once they sell the fish and their guarantee (if any) expires. All of my studies indicate that the mortality rate doesn't really start to slow until 30 to 40 days out. Of course, you could set a limit of say, mortalities within five days - but you would still miss this latent mort. with flukes and Uronema.
Just my two cents.....
Jay
I've tracked mortality rates on and off since 1985. I generally go post-40 days from importation as I've found that igives the most meaningful data, the exponential curve really flattens out by that time (or all the fish are dead by then!)
I see three major problems: One is the liability of "naming names". I for one would never publicly attribute a mortality rate to a given company. Conversely, who is to stop somebody from posting horrible data from a competing importer just to skew their data?
The second problem is mortality rates are going to vary depending on what stock the people order - some are more savvy at avoiding problem fish than others. A person who routinely orders 3/4" green chromis at the 100 lot special is going to lose most to Uronema or starvation. A different person who knows this could order a related fish from Fiji @ $6 ea. and might have zero morts.
The third problem I already alluded to - as far as most dealers are concerned, the mortality rate ends once they sell the fish and their guarantee (if any) expires. All of my studies indicate that the mortality rate doesn't really start to slow until 30 to 40 days out. Of course, you could set a limit of say, mortalities within five days - but you would still miss this latent mort. with flukes and Uronema.
Just my two cents.....
Jay
GreshamH":tvsq24gk said:
Nothing here stops you from posting truth.
Post I received my order from xxx and noticed for the first time that the fish had fluke infestation.
By doing it behind closed doors you achieve nothing.
By doing it in this forum you share the information with other lfs and wholesalers and most importantly the vendor will move to change things when he see that many lfs are reading this information.
So, Gresham, pony up to the table and start naming names.
I've been complaining to the wholesalers about flukes for like 3 years now, I"m convinced that either:
A. They really don't care.
B. They are too stupid to know what a fluke is.
C. They are too cheap to work on solving the problem in-house as well as with the exporters.
I think it's mostly a combo of A & C with most of them. Naming names is pretty pointless... I would be real interested in someone naming the name of a wholesaler that isn't spamming flukes.
A. They really don't care.
B. They are too stupid to know what a fluke is.
C. They are too cheap to work on solving the problem in-house as well as with the exporters.
I think it's mostly a combo of A & C with most of them. Naming names is pretty pointless... I would be real interested in someone naming the name of a wholesaler that isn't spamming flukes.
naesco":tbj7138c said:
You are absolutely wrong. You obviously do not know US law. I myself have been taken to task and had to answer the lawyers call. You can not just say anything you want in the US Wayne, even if it's the truth. Besides, WTF are you talking about? I have NOTHING to do with the CoC of livestock any longer, nor have I in 3 or so years. Try picking up on the tidbits I toss to you, we've been over this at least a half dozen times. The cold getting to you again?
Yeah, prazi-pro works and freshwater dips are extremely good at helping badly infested fish.. but it still is pretty messed up when I dip a fish that just came in and see literally 30 or 40 flukes come off ONE fish. The whole fluke thing has forced me to change how we hold fish... I don't like to put prazipro willy nilly in the fish systems, it really kinda messes them up.
It's kinda toxic though Me I just want to find a couple of good wholesalers that do what that say. The current one I have been using will not even follow there own procedures. I had a recent shipment that was delayed less than 12 hours. Ended up with 50% doa, water temps in the boxes down in the low 60's. Wholesaler says it is not there fault so they will only credit 50% of the DOA. Packages in transient only30 hours or so. Much less than the 48 the airlines says.
So it is my fault that the heat paks that I pay for do not work for 48 hours as they should. The last shipment was delayed a total of 7 hours. I lost over half the shipment. The heat packs were cold, so they were not 48 hour heat packs.
The shipment got loaded onto the first plan at 8:30 in the morning, I received it at 10:30 the next evening, Now the shipper did drop it off at 4 in the afternoon,
Kim
The shipment got loaded onto the first plan at 8:30 in the morning, I received it at 10:30 the next evening, Now the shipper did drop it off at 4 in the afternoon,
Kim
kgross":3r0vxem3 said:
Yes, in light of the winter weather, you owe it to the critters that you caused to be removed from the ocean to see that the optimum shipping conditions we arranged.
You should have arranged for the special delivery Jeremy suggested.
You did not make these arrangements no doubt to save money with the resultant loss of life. Not good!!
I will again say, the airlines delivered in less than 24 hours. The wholesaler drops off in the afternoon, after all the direct flights have left. I can not force the airlines to make extra flights. NFG or Rush does not matter when things go wrong. I am unhappy that the shipper did not put in proper heat packs, or package/deliver at a good time. Since the shipment would not leave until the morning, it should not have been taken to the airport until morning. The airlines had the shipment to me in less than 12 hours from when it went on the plane.
Maybe with NFG the airlines would cover the cost of the loss, but the creatures would still be dead because of the heat packs did not work. (even though NFG requires direct flights, which we do not have)
Kim
Maybe with NFG the airlines would cover the cost of the loss, but the creatures would still be dead because of the heat packs did not work. (even though NFG requires direct flights, which we do not have)
Kim
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