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Anonymous

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Oh boy, Eddies posted on the RC thread - let the he said she said begin!

Steve, did you really ask him to consult on aquaculture in PNG? Really?



Some images from an NPO that didn't get going about the first trip to Tonga when the future looked fantastic (the video of the speech to Government officials has been removed):
http://stickycricket.com/reefstewards/e ... oject.html
 
A

Anonymous

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Eddies post:

Hello everyone. My name is Eddie Hanson and I'm an Indonesian coral exporter working out of Bali. Some of you may remember me back in the days when I used to have a reef shop called Tropical Paradise in the SF area. About 4 years ago, I had an opportunity to go to the Kingdom of Tonga to run a collection/export station.

One of the main problems that I saw right away was that the divers were never trained on the corals. They simply went out and collected what ever was around. On my first collecting trip, I threw back 90% of the corals. For sure most these corals would have ended up at some wholesaler or retailer unable to sell and eventually die. The guys were collecting corals that were not suitable for the aquarium trade. Of course these were experienced coral divers that had worked for other exporters before. The lead diver even worked for Walt Smith in Fiji. But in a matter of months, with me going out with them everyday for training, they started to catch on what is good and what is bad. So instead of taking 90% of corals around them that was not suitable, we were only taking 20%. More work but we were actually "less destructing the reef". I spent a lot of time with the divers and they all had nothing good to say about their former boss, Walt Smith. They used to tell me how they used to go to one area and wipe out all of the one species. I asked about some of the Indonesian corals, they said that Tonga used to have, but Walt took it all and there is no more. Walt Smith was one of the first exporter and collector, so there were really no regulations, so he simply did what he wanted. This is all coming from the divers, not other exporters or customers or anyone.

After I felt the divers can go collect on their own, it was time to work on fish. We had 5 divers total. We brought in 3 legal Filipino divers to train and work together with our Tongan divers on how to catch fish using nets. The trick was to teach our local divers, because eventually the Filipinos would go home after their contract. I took two of the more veterans of our diver crew and teamed them up with the Filipinos. At this time I teamed up with my friend who has a huge wholesale operation in northern California to bring in famous Steve Robinson to train our Filipino and Tonga divers how to catch fish without destructing the reefs. Robert (owner of Aquatic Specialties and Pets) and I wanted to make sure that any bad habits the Filipinos had, wasn't going to
be used in catching ornamental fish in Tonga. Steve is the expert in this field. Years ago, he was taught by Australians using nets and took his knowledge to PI. It was all cyanide back in those days and thanks to him, much of the fish collection is now net caught. Heck even my Filipino divers heard of Steve Robinson, just by reputation.

While this was going on, I also started an aquaculture project. Actually other companies were already doing it, just not so successful. We needed a place and ended up renting space from the Fisheries Clam Farm. Years ago, the Japanese had given this clam farm as a gift to Tonga. They trained the locals but after the Japanese left, things fell apart. The farm is a state of the art facility and had huge amount of potential. We dumped money and man power and cleaned up the place. We had a deal with the fisheries. We would pay rent and maintain the facility, although only half of the tanks were ours, and all the clams spawned we were going to share. So the fisheries loved me from the start. They had all to gain and nothing to loose. Daniel Knop even came out to consult. He went out with my divers and took a photo of the rare Tevora clam, which he really wanted for his next clam book. No one had an updated picture. He was very happy. I also had Anthony Calfo come out to help me with the aquaculture. I can grow corals in captive tanks but can I do it in the field? If I'm not sure, I get people that know to help me. The process was simple. We would get pieces from wild colonies and make broodstock. After these grow out, we would cut pieces and mount them on cement disks and grow these out for sale. But finding a place to grow the corals was more tricky than I thought. The first place was too shallow, the second place had too much sediment, the third place had too much algea and huge starfish that would eat the corals! Then finally I found a place where we could leave the corals alone for months at a time and grow nicely. I brought some samples to Macna at that time to see what kind of response I would get. People loved it. I even brought out my Tongan partner to the show so he can see what was happening on the otherside. The organizers were delighted that an exporter from overseas had come to the show. After the positive response of the aquaculture, we went back to Tonga to start production. We got permission from the fisheries to grow our corals in the certain area. No one was allowed to go there, but us. I had big plans to repopulate areas of damage left by Walt Smith.

Unfortunately, this is where I got screwed out of my Tonga operation and left. That was nearly around 3 years ago.

I'm now in Indonesia and have been here a year exporting super high quality corals. Actually my concept of aquaculture is even better than the concept that was developed here years ago. The "farmers" have to maintain and constantly clean the racks because of algea problems. My corals in Tonga needed no maintenance! I don't have an aquaculture license yet so I can't implement any of my ideas but once I do get it - watch out! I have a special project that will rock the industry!

So now I'm minding my own business in Indo, getting ready to leave for Vietnam in a day, and my friend Robert sends me a link to this thread. He says"you got to hear this crap!"

So here I am posting, and I haven't posted since the TP days when I used to sponsor.

So Mr. Smith,

What have I done to offend you so wrongly? I haven't been in Tonga for three years. I don't know what is going on? All I know, is that my aquaculture project went down the tubes and my partner no longer rents the fisheries clam farm. Everything is back to "normal".

I don't even know you. The only time we ever spoke was when you called me up from LA and asked me to sell fish to you exclusively. I brought in professional divers so we can export fish overseas, not to supply to my competitor. Where did you get the galls to ask me not to sell to anyone in LA? You should've just been glad that I was selling you corals and some leftover fish because your operation was dead at the time. All you were really sending was liverock. Actually we hardly ever sold rock. It was a loosing deal for us and we would only collect a few pieces when my customers requested it.

You neglected Tonga and focused all of your attention on Fiji. Heck you even lied to my friend a long time ago when we went to visit you at Pacific Aquafarms. There was this beautiful new rock that was displayed in one of your tanks. You called it Kaelini from Fiji! You never gave credit in the beginning for Tonga. So then I show up and start doing something good for everyone (we had at one point 28 employees. When I first got there, there were less than ten with part time divers), and you get upset 4 years later!

Now that you are loosing liverock quota, somehow it is my fault? How dare you bring me up in your problems! Where were you when I used to entertain all guests that used to come to the clam farm? The fisheries were proud that their clam farm was up an running. It used to be one of the "monkeys" on their backs. The government used to get on fisheries case about the condition of the farm. Now that I showed up, everyone was sending any people of importance my way. They were actually now proud. I used to have many meetings with my partner and the minister of the fisheries to talk about the future of the coral trade. I can tell you that there were very little guidelines even just a few years ago. Where were you?

Fellow reefers, for hobbyists Walt Smith is a hero. Because you guys don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I used to think he was the god of corals and had huge respect for him. Then I got into the business and found out the truth. I have heard the term "crowbar Walt" too many times on the field.

And oh by the way Walt, if you are such an expert on aquaculture, and I'm such an idiot, why was I asked to come to PNG to consult in an aquaculture project and not you?

Cheers Walt, we can talk man to man when we meet.

For everyone, I'm sorry for the extra long post. I apologize as I didn't plan on my first post on RC being so negative.

Cheers,
Eddie
 
A

Anonymous

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You tell em Eddie The Crowbar Hansen :lol: BTW can you get the poor divers their passports back from your ex-partner...they happen to be held hostage ATM and would love to leave!!!!

That might be news to Steve as well Rich :lol: Especially the part about him being trained by Aussies. Huh, funny, Steve had been net collecting many years before setting foot in Australia, but when does Eddie get anything right? :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

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JeremyR":hqz48bbg said:
I'm investing heavily in brown.. I hear it may be the next purple.

I tell people that all the time, those ugly 'brown' frags just need some TLC and you never know what you may get.

Ok, its usually turns green instead of brown but you pay your money and take your chances.
 
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Anonymous

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Goldstein":ijh7uj5u said:
JeremyR":ijh7uj5u said:
I'm investing heavily in brown.. I hear it may be the next purple.

I tell people that all the time, those ugly 'brown' frags just need some TLC and you never know what you may get.

Ok, its usually turns green instead of brown but you pay your money and take your chances.

I'm all over the brown out bin at PAF when I'm down there. People do not realize just what beauties have come out of the brown out bins :) It's a challenge I used to be up for all the time, but I don't have the space anymore.
 

bookfish

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Thales":3ewwrljh said:
The fifth company is the one I, and others, consulted for over the course of 9 months, and here is a link to the promotional video I made for them after my second trip out:

http://stickycricket.com/movies/MPEG/IMT_ERFI_promo.mov

I am now kind of embarrassed by it (and that 7 point plan speech that got forgotten when business realities hit), and never completed the longer version with the mariculture, coral collecting and packing because by my third trip things were falling apart.

Its interesting that this comes up now because I just gave a talk in Denver talking about what went right and what went wrong with the project (sadly mostly wrong)

I really did believe in the project, although I dodged the bullet and never invested anything but lots of time into it. I like to believe it did start with the best of intentions, but went downhill when normal business realities, Tongan business realities, and MO business realities combined to make the perfect storm of ickiness.
Actually I believe the 5th company was Jayhawk. Coral Kingdom aka Island Marine Tropicals was Kolis company who we consulted for. Just a minor correction..
 

naesco

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Well done movie.
If everyone practised the methods and shared the same vision as demonstrated in the movie, we would be in business forever.
 
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bookfish":2smhi9wp said:
Thales":2smhi9wp said:
The fifth company is the one I, and others, consulted for over the course of 9 months, and here is a link to the promotional video I made for them after my second trip out:

http://stickycricket.com/movies/MPEG/IMT_ERFI_promo.mov

I am now kind of embarrassed by it (and that 7 point plan speech that got forgotten when business realities hit), and never completed the longer version with the mariculture, coral collecting and packing because by my third trip things were falling apart.

Its interesting that this comes up now because I just gave a talk in Denver talking about what went right and what went wrong with the project (sadly mostly wrong)

I really did believe in the project, although I dodged the bullet and never invested anything but lots of time into it. I like to believe it did start with the best of intentions, but went downhill when normal business realities, Tongan business realities, and MO business realities combined to make the perfect storm of ickiness.
Actually I believe the 5th company was Jayhawk. Coral Kingdom aka Island Marine Tropicals was Kolis company who we consulted for. Just a minor correction..

Hmm. He worked for both - Jayhawk first. It does seem that Walt is referring to IMT in his message and is referring to it as the 5th company. :D
 
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:D

I think the details are confused, but the gist is on track. I can't speak to the legalities that Walt mentions, as I was told by IMT everything was on the level. I never discussed the legalities with Fisheries myself.
 
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bookfish":3t37ejba said:
I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time...

That's right...I'm the only one that is infoulable....aka "the one the walks over water" :D
 

JennM

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From Fishheads' latest stock list, received last night:

Note that this could be the last Tonga Live Rock our industry will see! The Kingdom of Tonga most likely will implement a ban (Aug 4th.) passed several years ago by Parliament. That means actually enforcing it. Get the rock while you can!
 

naesco

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Jenn, if the Kingdom of Tonga is taking steps to preserve the natural reef don't you think US industry should be 100% supportive of them?

There will be lots of rock coming from Tonga in the future but it will be aquacultured providing emloyment to its citizens.
 
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Where do you think cement comes from Wayne? The cement fairy?

They will crush reef rock, the same stuff they are banning, bake it and add other stuff to it that had to be imported. Yah, a real environmental improvement :lol: Typical comment from the Wayne camp :lol:
 

JennM

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Hey Gresh, quit feeding the troll ;)

Wayne's not worried, he's got a line on all that good Cuban stuff - never mind what might happen to their reefs, eh?

Ooops I just fed the troll. My bad.

Jenn
 
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Wayne sent me a funny PM....He thinks it's Christmas time apparently :lol:
 
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naesco":3ekgsfk3 said:
Jenn, if the Kingdom of Tonga is taking steps to preserve the natural reef don't you think US industry should be 100% supportive of them?

Depends on the steps they are taking don't you think? A 100% ban benefits no one, including Tonga. While something realistic and enforceable may work well for all parties involved. It seems odd to me to think that business that rely on revenue streams would support the ending of those revenue streams.

There will be lots of rock coming from Tonga in the future but it will be aquacultured providing emloyment to its citizens.

I think its this kind of statement that generates animosity towards you. You, or anyone else, has no evidence that this will be the case. Definite predictions of the future are not only irksome, but they do more harm than good serving to confuse the issues even further.

Furthermore, you are missing the point regarding where the material to make artificial rock comes from in places like Tonga - even though it has been discussed with you many times.

RR

PS
Regarding a pm you sent me, I don't believe Tonga is in Asia.
 
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Latest from the RC thread:

Hi Everyone,

I am Chris Turnier, former owner of Reefer Madness, and now the Mariculture and Livestock Manager at Walt Smith International in Fiji.

I was hired by Walt to specifically get the mariculture side of the business cranking (ie: aqua cultured coral and live rock) as this is my area of expertise. I have a BS in Fisheries with an emphasis in maricultue, and I have worked in the aquarium industry for the past 12 years.

In Fiji, our mariculture farm is slowly coming back after being wiped out by two cyclones in January. We now have close to 30,000 pieces of cultured coral on our farms, where close to 20% is placed back on the reef to repopulate areas that have bleached, been wiped out by pollution and/or storms. The rest is either set aside for F2 propagation or sent in our shipments to our various wholesalers around the world. What we have on the farm at the moment is just the beginning as we have lots and lots of room for growth. I spend at least 3 days a week (weather permitting), diving on our farms out in the ocean to make sure that everything is growing well and planted correctly.

I have also been developing new shapes to our already extensive cultured live rock line. We have literally tons upon tons of cultured live rock placed over areas of reef rubble that are and will be ready to supplant the sustainable live rock harvest (viewed by some as unsustainable but they fail to realize the actual area being collected from- which makes up less than maybe 1% of the overall reef area).

My whole life is built upon these farms. There is nothing else I would rather be doing. Walt placed me in this position. It is his dream as well to have a farm that competes with Indonesia (Bali, etc). These countries were forced to Aquaculture due to strains that a population of over 200 million bring. Fiji does not have these issues. Sure there is pollution local to the 4 larger cities but there are only around 800,000 people who live in the whole of Fiji, and most of the reefs are relatively pristine. The Fijian government did not enforce aquaculture upon the coral exporters. This is due to the fact that WSI alone has over 800 square miles of reef to collect from. I can travel by boat for more than 3 hours and still be in an area where we (and no other company) can collect from. That is HUGE! What that means is that we have close to no impact on the reef. A study was done by Ed Lovell of the University of the South Pacific who found that WSI collects 0.001% of the corals in our collection area. 0.001%!!!! That is beyond sustainable! There was a study done stating that up to 3% of a natural resource could be collected and still be sustainable. So those nay-Sayers that say that we are reef-rapers are incredibly mistaken. We are incredibly concerned with the environment. All of our divers are trained to have the utmost respect for the corals that they collect and the reefs that they collect from. Our divers are only armed with a hammer and a screw-driver. NOT CROW-BARS!!! We are meticulous in how we transport and keep the corals so that mortality is kept to an absolute minimum. Unfortunately no matter how careful we are there is breakage and die-off during transportation. When this happens we very carefully take the corals and place them back on the reef so that they can flourish once more.

Now that I have been in Fiji for over a year and I have been to Tonga several times I can now look back on what I have learned and observed and I can describe to you all what actually goes on here in the South Pacific. If any of you know me personally you all know that I am a very environmentally motivated person. It is me and my family’s life. It is extremely important to me to live and work for someone who shares the same value as I do. Walt has all of these values as well. Walt and I want this to be as environmentally sound a business as possible. That is the only way to keep the hundreds of Pacific Islanders that we employ in business for years to come. The world will not allow us to be careless with our environment. I will not allow the people who I manage to be careless. I want to save the reefs probably more than anyone that I know. But we can only do small parts. We need to focus on the future and the future is Mariculture and Aquaculture. Mariculture has not made Walt Smith International a dime. This is due to the slow movement of our hobby to gravitate toward cultured corals. WSI was the FIRST Company in the world to start commercially producing cultured corals and cultured live rock. Dave Palmer (when he was in the Solomon’s) was actually the first to attempt culturing corals but it was small scale and unfortunately temporary at that time.

Now I come to Tonga. Tonga is such beautiful little group of islands and reefs that cover an amazing amount of square miles. The diversity of coral (both soft and hard) exceeds that of Fiji (from what I have seen so far). It is an amazing place and you never know what you might see next while diving. Now I get to Eddie Hanson and his ranting on Walt. I am not sure where you feel you were called out. Walt never said your name and only a few within the actual business would actually remember those photos and actual instances. I think you are bringing up some old vendettas for your being booted out of Tonga and stating these issues to supposedly clear the air. I only know fragments of what happened in the past in Tonga. I heard bits and pieces through my years at Flying Fish Express and Reefer Madness. Several strange things that have been stated by Eddie about Walt are all hear-say. He said, that diver said… so on and so forth. From what I can see there is no truth to most of these statements. There are no Crow-Bars used for collecting corals. There isn’t the desire to collect and eliminate the rare corals. But one of the biggest problems is that there are 5 companies that all collect in the same area. That means that no fingers can be pointed at one coral exporter for the demise of the industry.

I’ll give you all an example of a certain situation that I learned of while in Tonga. I’m sure those that have been in the hobby awhile remember the huge and beautiful Purple Rhodactis inchoata that came from Tonga. Walt found these mushrooms in a secret place and he specifically told his divers to collect a few each week and not to tell anyone about the location. He was able keep this going for years and the population of mushrooms never decreased. But then one of WSI’s coral divers left for another company and within several weeks every single mushroom was gone!

I do know what occurs in Tonga these days. I have trained and showed our WSI divers what to collect. Our Tonga WSI station is run almost exactly the same way as our Fiji station. They have a small axe or a hammer and a screwdriver. That is all. I will state again, there are no Crow-bars used while collecting corals! What would the point be? You want to preserve the coral that you are collecting so that you can export them. You can’t sell something that is bashed and broken. And we don’t find a rare coral or color morph and wipe it out. What is the point of that? We want to collect it over the long run so that it will thrive and we can continue to get a descent price for it. That was our objective with the Tonga Purple Mush. That policy worked until other companies had their way.

Live rock in Tonga is collected from vast area of reef that has very little coral growth on them. This is usually due to natural environmental factors that include high impact zone, high turbidity, storm damage, etc. In difference to what most believe, it is incredible sustainable when you look at the reef as a whole and exactly what percentage of that reef is being collected for live rock harvest. Only a very few know how much actual reef there is in Tonga. It is vast, probably as expansive as Fiji. That means that there is plenty of areas to collect live rock from and because the area is so large that impact is very minimal.

Now this leads me to the future of the industry in Tonga. Unfortunately the government is indecisive as to what direction it wants this industry to go. But this could all easily be solved if an outside company came in to do a Non-Detriment Finding report and an Environmental Impact Study to show the Tongan government how benign our industry actually is. These studies in combination with several set collection areas for the different companies, while developing a plan for Aquaculture and Mariculture should allow our industry to go on far into the foreseeable future.

Thanks for hearing me out…

Chris Turnier
 

JeremyR

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This is all meaningless.. there is no "live rock" anymore. I don't care who it comes from in fiji or tonga.. the handling to save money has turned it into smelly base rock. I wouldn't buy any of it anymore... what's the point? Pioneering the art of shipping "live rock" to the states via container ship from fiji isn't something I would be proud of, and niether is "aquaculture" rock that has to be injected with dye to make it look like it has coralline algae.
 

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