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Hybrid crocea/maximas

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chris&barb

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There has been a bunch of talk going around about maxima and crocea hybrids for sale right now. Ive looked at them and they look like croceas to me. Here's a link to a blog about them http://www.reefbuilders.com/2009/02/04/ ... ma-crocea/



I think its all BS hype marketing (as you can see by my comments in the blog) but i was wondering if anyone might have an idea what farm they are comming from. One person in the replies claims to run or work at the farm and said its in Vanuatu. Any idea what farm it might be and how i might contact them?

They are nice looking clams dont get me wrong but i dont believe it. I just want to learn more about it and see if there is any documentation on this.

Anything at all anyone can tell me about this?

Chris
 
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jhemdal1

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I'll reserve judgement on the hybrid/not hybrid question, I've seen stranger things happen (but it kinda looks like a farmed-raised crocea to me).

The interesting thing I saw in the blog was that the person who owns the farm says these hybrids "do not require CITES". I'm no lawyer, but I do not believe that a simple hybrid invalidates the CITES II listing for all members of the genus Tridacna, since the hybrid is still obviously a member of that genus. If that were the case, all those hybrid orangutans out there would be bought and sold with impunity, and that is not the case. Another example would be the Asian arowanas. The US does not recognize the importation of Scleropages formosus, but in the recent study where that species was broken down into four or five separate species by taxonomists, the new species were not suddenly legal to import into the US.

HOWEVER, that does give a HUGE push to why the farm would want to sell these as hybrids - lower fees, less hassle, the ability of US importers to re-ship to Canada, plus unknown benefits in the EU.


Jay
 
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chris&barb

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Thanks for the reply Jay. I found that same comment odd. I would think that if a hybridized clam were exempt from CITES, CITES would require a little more then the word of the farmer that it is a hybrid, so if thats the case there should be some paperwork out there.

Another thing that smells a little is that these clams are a few years old by now. If i were the first person/farm to have known hybrids I would have let it be known some time ago.
 
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chris&barb

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That was a joke Gresham :P . I was hoping a few more people would chime in on this. Anyway i already know where they are comming from and who's bringing them in.

Just trying to get more feedback from insiders on this :wink:
 
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naesco

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chris&barb":1rjk3t4p said:
That was a joke Gresham :P . I was hoping a few more people would chime in on this. Anyway i already know where they are comming from and who's bringing them in.

Just trying to get more feedback from insiders on this :wink:
Click to expand...

Where are they coming from, please?
 
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jhemdal1

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coralite,

They make the same claim in the link that you posted - that these hybrids do not require CITES permits. I sure wouldn't want to be the one to test that with USFWS. Even if they get a sign-off from USFWS at say, LAX, whose to say that other agents at a different POE would see it the same way? The examples I gave (Scleropages and Orangs) seem to point to the contrary. I think I know where the OP is coming from - some hybrid orchids are being allowed in trade, while the parent species still require permits. However, from what I could tell, this can only happen after a CITES COP (conference of partners) has allowed it. I could not find that this has happened with Tridacna yet. It may be that a previous ruling on orchids has been extrapolated to other hybrid species, but that was not clear to me. Better safe than sorry I guess.....



Jay
 
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chris&barb

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Brett just posted this as his proof http://picasaweb.google.com/nalabutch/M ... irectlink#

He also just stated that there has been no genetic testing. I doubt that USFWS would just take this guys word on this. If they did then i know where to get thousands of hybrids :lol:

They are nice looking croceas, sell them for what they are. No need to slap "hybrid" on them to bump up the price. Whats next LE Tryee squadersgigas?
 
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Fish_dave

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We raised tens of thousands of these clams while I was living in the Solomons Islands. They are crocea. The mantle colors are very typical for wild and cultured crocea clams from the Solomon area which is very close to Vanuatu. The shells look like a typical cultured crocea that has not been allowed to bore into rock. From the wild they will not look like this as they always bore into rock which keeps the shell sides smooth and the clam looking more slim. Cultured crocea will have shell scutes and have a a more oval shape than the wild collected clams. Sorry for anyone that wants them to be a hybrid but they are very typical cultured crocea. The hybrid label is a marketing ploy to try and move the light colored and gold crocea. When we were raising them we had to lower the price by almost half to sell the clams with these mantel colors, everyone wanted the blue and green ones, brown and white ones were hard to move and we had to lower the price. Brilliant move to call them rare hybrids, raise the price, and make a market for the common ones. When our new crocea are big enough for market I will keep this brilliant marketing in mind.

Dave
 
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JeremyR

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I used to buy your croceas back then dave, don't remember ever getting colors like that. Too bad, as much as I liked the green ones & blue ones, I would have loved the others (just like I still like gold maximas). Maybe whoever I was getting them from didn't offer the other colors? Dunno.
 
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Fish_dave

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It was a real struggle to sell these other colors. No one wanted to take anything but blue and green ones. We were way backed up with colors just like the ones in this guys gallery. I think that we lowered the price 40% for the non blue and greens and still could not move them. Many thousands went to a reef restocking program that was a scam because crocea (especially those grown in tanks with shell scutes) can not be easily reintroduced to the wild. They are immediatly preyed upon as they are not bored into the reef rock like the wild ones.

Like I said above, this is a great marketing ploy, it makes folks want what is normally more difficult to sell. I will remember it, brilliant move from whomever thought it up.

About not needing CITES for these clams, that sounds crazy. I would bet that Fish and Wildlife would have a different opinion. If they have been bamboozled into letting some in the country without a CITES permit I bet that they will have a different stance once they learn what the clams really are.

Dave
 
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