Seems when you speak up people say it is unproffesional or taboo to say whats up. The locals have the goods and should post every single case here or on the verified forum so everyone will know. Honestly I would support my fellow LFS by not buying from wholesalers always allowing the secret shopper........LFS need to speak up and take control cause ultamately we have the power, not a single wholesaler can exists on etail or big boxes alone.....This would ultamately lead to 104th guys amoung others to clean up the hanky panky going on behind the scenes.
Coral
- Thread starter swsaltwater
- Start date
dizzy":2s8kb60l said:
All kidding aside... I do think that part of the damage done is our own fault. I know around here there have been (past tense) shopkeepers who have their buddies, and their buddies see the lists/prices... then the buddies tell everybody what a ripoff the stores are... and so it goes.
Plenty of those stores have become "casualties of the economy" or more accurately, casualties of themselves. I've lived in a few different places, and I've seen it happen in different places, not just here.
I also remember when dry goods/hardware wholesalers wouldn't deliver orders to residential addresses, but they are doing it now. I don't think the problem of Joe Consumer walking in to a supply wholesaler and doing the cash and carry thing is as much of an issue, but now even on that end of it, the B&Ms are having to compete with the guy who opens up a store in his garage, and the hard goods suppliers are enabling them to do it. When I opened my wholesale accounts they wanted to see a Yellow Pages ad (does anybody actually use Yellow Pages anymore?!), in addition to my business license. Anybody can get a business license and resale number, but the wholesalers wanted tangible proof that I had a legitimate storefront. I guess times have changed on that too.
Jenn
dizzy":2h0aezha said:
I’ve seen many stores complaints and my partner waited his time and did it once; all they do is tell the hobbyist to keep a low profile while shopping with half a dozen of their buddies. Its not really a huge deal anyway because customers who shop at wholesellers aren't where the money is anyway.
When we (SDC) stopped drop shipping for Pet Solutions a few years ago....it was told to us that the "REAL TIME" Inventory of Quality Marine was a big benefit to their customers...so I think it's true that they do link their inventory for their online drop-shipping customers.
Eric,
Hope all is well at SDC and I wanted to chime in here to address another rumor in the "As the World Turns on West 104th St." soap opera.
Like other rumors that seem to perpetuate every single year since I have been at Drs. Foster and Smith, especially during the slower summer months, our inventory is NOT linked in Real Time to Quality Marine's inventory, nor to any of our other livestock vendors. If it were, we surely not have to incur the expense of shipping so many backorders to our customers at OUR expense.
We are privy to the same view of inventory at any time of the day or night as every other customer of Quality Marine, by simply logging onto their web site. Kudos to Chris Buerner for having the foresight to invest a substantial amount of resources and capitol into a very sophisticated and accurate inventory control system. This benefits all of QM's customers as its far superior to any other livestock vendor in the nation, and I am very impressed that with all of the complexities involving live animals, that they can pull this off.
On a different topic, It is amazing to me that during a statistically slower time in the fish biz, that folks like yourself continually come to this forum to make accusations and perpetuate rumors. I know that all of my time here at DFS is spent on the acquisition of the best possible animals and on their husbandry, as well as on servicing our customers and acquiring new ones, rather than wasting my time here having to respond to unsubstantiated rumors.
Kevin Kohen
Drs. Foster and Smith/LiveAquaria
Hope all is well at SDC and I wanted to chime in here to address another rumor in the "As the World Turns on West 104th St." soap opera.
Like other rumors that seem to perpetuate every single year since I have been at Drs. Foster and Smith, especially during the slower summer months, our inventory is NOT linked in Real Time to Quality Marine's inventory, nor to any of our other livestock vendors. If it were, we surely not have to incur the expense of shipping so many backorders to our customers at OUR expense.
We are privy to the same view of inventory at any time of the day or night as every other customer of Quality Marine, by simply logging onto their web site. Kudos to Chris Buerner for having the foresight to invest a substantial amount of resources and capitol into a very sophisticated and accurate inventory control system. This benefits all of QM's customers as its far superior to any other livestock vendor in the nation, and I am very impressed that with all of the complexities involving live animals, that they can pull this off.
On a different topic, It is amazing to me that during a statistically slower time in the fish biz, that folks like yourself continually come to this forum to make accusations and perpetuate rumors. I know that all of my time here at DFS is spent on the acquisition of the best possible animals and on their husbandry, as well as on servicing our customers and acquiring new ones, rather than wasting my time here having to respond to unsubstantiated rumors.
Kevin Kohen
Drs. Foster and Smith/LiveAquaria
Kevin,
Your post made me re-read my previous post. I said Pet Solutions...not Fosters and Smith! Actually, Marine Depot and Pet Solutions both told me that this "Real Time" link to QM's inventory was a huge benefit for them to get the best fill rates possible. I did not intend for you to think it was directed at you because I did not mention your name.
You need to correct your Kudos to Chris as I know this sofisticated system they use was in place long ago by Phil Shane (Founder of QM). Phil had a vision way beyond his time. He just didn't see the value in working together with other operators, and maybe this was his downfall. I don't want to take away anything from Chris...he has shown us a new technical direction that we have embraced and now try to lead in.
I have always laughed at the attempt to show a "Real Time" inventory. We do just about as good a job as they do, if not better. I would argue that we update our list more often (daily), and we know when items are no longer in stock because we keep track of each item that is no longer in stock when crossed off an order being shipped. There is no such thing as a real time, because there could be items that are sick, not shippable, died in house, were taken by a local walk in before a ship-out order was packed etc.....too many scenarios to mention. It's not like there is a red light over each fish and every time an order is placed for a fish, a red light is turned on which would mean that fish is spoken for on that specific order...if you know what I mean. But I do know that we have trained our staff to communicate with our customers to make sure they know what animals are being shorted from their orders, so they have an opportunity to substitute other items if many things are not available during their order being packed and I challenge any other wholesaler to give that same type of service.
As far as me coming to this forum, I find it very useful as do so many others like yourself. I am not sure you meant what you just said because it's not like you to take that kind of tone. You are accusing me of starting such rumors and making accusations....I think you know me better than that, especially having been the one on the other end of the rumor mill on many occassions. This topic was not started by me, only trying to answer another one's question which I tried to do and I clearly showed the original quote in my post. I did not even consider you would have taken it personally directed to Fosters and Smith because again...I specifically named where I had heard that and that is why I mentioned Pet Solutions. I am not even sure this topic of connecting inventory is a big deal or a negative thing. That would be up to the retailers to decide. I have nothing but respect for you guys and actually have not heard many rumors lately....too freakin busy
Have a great holiday weekend Kev.
Your post made me re-read my previous post. I said Pet Solutions...not Fosters and Smith! Actually, Marine Depot and Pet Solutions both told me that this "Real Time" link to QM's inventory was a huge benefit for them to get the best fill rates possible. I did not intend for you to think it was directed at you because I did not mention your name.
You need to correct your Kudos to Chris as I know this sofisticated system they use was in place long ago by Phil Shane (Founder of QM). Phil had a vision way beyond his time. He just didn't see the value in working together with other operators, and maybe this was his downfall. I don't want to take away anything from Chris...he has shown us a new technical direction that we have embraced and now try to lead in.
I have always laughed at the attempt to show a "Real Time" inventory. We do just about as good a job as they do, if not better. I would argue that we update our list more often (daily), and we know when items are no longer in stock because we keep track of each item that is no longer in stock when crossed off an order being shipped. There is no such thing as a real time, because there could be items that are sick, not shippable, died in house, were taken by a local walk in before a ship-out order was packed etc.....too many scenarios to mention. It's not like there is a red light over each fish and every time an order is placed for a fish, a red light is turned on which would mean that fish is spoken for on that specific order...if you know what I mean. But I do know that we have trained our staff to communicate with our customers to make sure they know what animals are being shorted from their orders, so they have an opportunity to substitute other items if many things are not available during their order being packed and I challenge any other wholesaler to give that same type of service.
As far as me coming to this forum, I find it very useful as do so many others like yourself. I am not sure you meant what you just said because it's not like you to take that kind of tone. You are accusing me of starting such rumors and making accusations....I think you know me better than that, especially having been the one on the other end of the rumor mill on many occassions. This topic was not started by me, only trying to answer another one's question which I tried to do and I clearly showed the original quote in my post. I did not even consider you would have taken it personally directed to Fosters and Smith because again...I specifically named where I had heard that and that is why I mentioned Pet Solutions. I am not even sure this topic of connecting inventory is a big deal or a negative thing. That would be up to the retailers to decide. I have nothing but respect for you guys and actually have not heard many rumors lately....too freakin busy
Have a great holiday weekend Kev.
I had already answered the "real time" inventory question in a previous post. It does not exist for LiveAquaria at QM, we are not linked to QM's inventory nor do we know it beyond what every retailer is privy to. We do however have real time inventory in our Wisconsin facility ( Diver's Den ) but most items are one of a kind and real time is easy.
With all due respect to every wholesaler, most of which I support, Chris Buerner and QM have come up with the best Wholesale concept. They do not ignore etail as the internet will not go away but they make the levelist playing field possible with all their accounts. As an example, Chris knows that Liveaquaria could yearly purchase about 1.5 million dollars worth of additional livestock from QM but to protect his retail supply, he refuses to sell it to us ( Eric that is why LiveAquaria.com purchased $3,000 worth of livestock from SDC this week!). As I previously mentioned , we only get an allocation of the rare items AFTER Chris Buerner satisfies his retail accounts. What he dropships for us and others are mostly the common stock and he provides no discounts or pricing over what every retail customer pays,----- in fact he charges us an additional markup plus we pay all our own shipping fees, packaging costs and California sales tax for items dropshipped from California to locations in California.
The bottom line is that QM has found an equitable way to serve the hobby in these changing times. Chris Buerner has done this by placing retailers first , as they should be since they are his largest market share. Additionally he recognizes the growth of the internet and has found a way to prevent me and others from becoming wholesalers by selling to us but on his terms and at the same time protecting the traditional retailer. Guys, I make my living in the pharmaceutical business and this is the model oftentimes used by the drug companies, including dropshipping as is done by VetCentric for the veterinary profession. It works and is the most fair, Vetcentric and QM both know it.. Retailers and etailers should support QM and their model, it is the most fair. Contrast this to the PAF model of a wholesaler selling direct via a smoke screen company such as Blue Zoo Aquatics and the former, ReeferMadness( some of the same ownership as PAF) all at the direct expense of their retail customers. That is the right of Pacific Aqua Farms and their linked by ownership company, BlueZooAquatics ,----- but IMO no retailer or etailer should support that concept.
Lastly, I want to make it clear that neither I, Kevin nor any of my partners or business associates have any ownership stake in QM or any other California company, or livestock wholesaler. We currently support QM, SDC and most other wholesalers.
Race
With all due respect to every wholesaler, most of which I support, Chris Buerner and QM have come up with the best Wholesale concept. They do not ignore etail as the internet will not go away but they make the levelist playing field possible with all their accounts. As an example, Chris knows that Liveaquaria could yearly purchase about 1.5 million dollars worth of additional livestock from QM but to protect his retail supply, he refuses to sell it to us ( Eric that is why LiveAquaria.com purchased $3,000 worth of livestock from SDC this week!). As I previously mentioned , we only get an allocation of the rare items AFTER Chris Buerner satisfies his retail accounts. What he dropships for us and others are mostly the common stock and he provides no discounts or pricing over what every retail customer pays,----- in fact he charges us an additional markup plus we pay all our own shipping fees, packaging costs and California sales tax for items dropshipped from California to locations in California.
The bottom line is that QM has found an equitable way to serve the hobby in these changing times. Chris Buerner has done this by placing retailers first , as they should be since they are his largest market share. Additionally he recognizes the growth of the internet and has found a way to prevent me and others from becoming wholesalers by selling to us but on his terms and at the same time protecting the traditional retailer. Guys, I make my living in the pharmaceutical business and this is the model oftentimes used by the drug companies, including dropshipping as is done by VetCentric for the veterinary profession. It works and is the most fair, Vetcentric and QM both know it.. Retailers and etailers should support QM and their model, it is the most fair. Contrast this to the PAF model of a wholesaler selling direct via a smoke screen company such as Blue Zoo Aquatics and the former, ReeferMadness( some of the same ownership as PAF) all at the direct expense of their retail customers. That is the right of Pacific Aqua Farms and their linked by ownership company, BlueZooAquatics ,----- but IMO no retailer or etailer should support that concept.
Lastly, I want to make it clear that neither I, Kevin nor any of my partners or business associates have any ownership stake in QM or any other California company, or livestock wholesaler. We currently support QM, SDC and most other wholesalers.
Race
Eric,
Thank you for your response, and I do in fact mean what I said as I am sick and tired of this dog and pony show. It amazes me that when I am in LA everyone on 104th speaks so highly of one another. Things are rosy and everyone’s all buddy buddy, but then in an underlying way rumors that have no facts or basis to back them up are spread around like wildfire in order to sabotage each others businesses by making false statements, perpetuating rumors and doing whatever they can to discredit the others is commonplace.
Focusing on buying the best possible livestock from ethical suppliers and putting in the hours to properly care for the animals is where the focus should be IMO, and the business will come.
A company like Quality Marine, a wholesaler selling or shipping livestock for companies such as Drs. Foster and Smith and Pet Solutions, two of the largest, most well-respected and established pet/aquarium product and livestock suppliers is smart business. We have a solid retail storefront business here in Rhinelander, and Pet Solutions owns and operates numerous retail brick and mortar stores in the Midwest and Florida (I grew up going into Jack's stores in Ohio). Neither Pet Solution or Drs. Foster and Smith diminish the value of the livestock, and are not undercutting other retailers, selling cheap, low quality fish to consumers.
The biggest issue that we all need to be cognoscente of right now in the marine aquarium trade is the practice of wholesalers selling livestock to anyone enough cash or a credit card, as this my friend is killing the trade. Between the countless basement operators who can set up an account at wholesalers across the country, to trnsshippers who never touch a thing and shuffle paperwork, along with unqualified operators that have zero business handling coral reef animals, our industry needs change fast.
There are far too many importers that are now routinely hammer suppliers on price, which only creates more collection, improper and poor post-harvest handling and holding, and more mortality. The practice is becoming much more common and done so in order to ram cheap fish through their facilities while at the same time stiffing the suppliers on the other end of the chain, which only diminishes the animal’s value to the point of them being expendable commodities.
We all are faced with similar challenges to keep our business moving forward in a positive direction. I would hope that everyone will see the light of day soon before we are regulated into extinction. The good players in our industry need to band together with some sense of unity to represent our trade. The marine aquarium trade is an important revenue generator for most island communities that rely on coral reefs for sustenance and income. This trade helps support and feeds hundreds of thousands of people around the world, including both you and me.
Kevin
Thank you for your response, and I do in fact mean what I said as I am sick and tired of this dog and pony show. It amazes me that when I am in LA everyone on 104th speaks so highly of one another. Things are rosy and everyone’s all buddy buddy, but then in an underlying way rumors that have no facts or basis to back them up are spread around like wildfire in order to sabotage each others businesses by making false statements, perpetuating rumors and doing whatever they can to discredit the others is commonplace.
Focusing on buying the best possible livestock from ethical suppliers and putting in the hours to properly care for the animals is where the focus should be IMO, and the business will come.
A company like Quality Marine, a wholesaler selling or shipping livestock for companies such as Drs. Foster and Smith and Pet Solutions, two of the largest, most well-respected and established pet/aquarium product and livestock suppliers is smart business. We have a solid retail storefront business here in Rhinelander, and Pet Solutions owns and operates numerous retail brick and mortar stores in the Midwest and Florida (I grew up going into Jack's stores in Ohio). Neither Pet Solution or Drs. Foster and Smith diminish the value of the livestock, and are not undercutting other retailers, selling cheap, low quality fish to consumers.
The biggest issue that we all need to be cognoscente of right now in the marine aquarium trade is the practice of wholesalers selling livestock to anyone enough cash or a credit card, as this my friend is killing the trade. Between the countless basement operators who can set up an account at wholesalers across the country, to trnsshippers who never touch a thing and shuffle paperwork, along with unqualified operators that have zero business handling coral reef animals, our industry needs change fast.
There are far too many importers that are now routinely hammer suppliers on price, which only creates more collection, improper and poor post-harvest handling and holding, and more mortality. The practice is becoming much more common and done so in order to ram cheap fish through their facilities while at the same time stiffing the suppliers on the other end of the chain, which only diminishes the animal’s value to the point of them being expendable commodities.
We all are faced with similar challenges to keep our business moving forward in a positive direction. I would hope that everyone will see the light of day soon before we are regulated into extinction. The good players in our industry need to band together with some sense of unity to represent our trade. The marine aquarium trade is an important revenue generator for most island communities that rely on coral reefs for sustenance and income. This trade helps support and feeds hundreds of thousands of people around the world, including both you and me.
Kevin
Kind of odd,------- while LiveAquaria and Kevin Kohen fight for the future of the aquarium trade in Washington DC , others worry about how QM keeps their inventory.
Kevin is right, time to get with the program before it is too late. Stop the nonsense and rumors on 104th and join together for a common cause. Quality Marine cannot save the reputation for all of you.
Race
Kevin is right, time to get with the program before it is too late. Stop the nonsense and rumors on 104th and join together for a common cause. Quality Marine cannot save the reputation for all of you.
Race
I agree with you 100% Race.....we do need to start coming together for the common good of the industry, and that is exactly what I have been trying to do for years with groups like Reefcheck. I have not launched the program yet, but soon we all need to be working together to market what I am calling SMART fish and corals.....like the Dolhpin Safe Tuna label, SMART will need the support of everyone and show that our industry CAN be sustainable.
This is way off topic, but as soon as the Best Practice Manual is Published, the SMART label will be discussed with all industry operators at every level.
More to come on this SMART topic......but it will be the future of our industry and scientifically prove that our industry is not only sustainable, but for the good of the environment. Get SMART everyone!
Eric
PS SMART = Sustainably Managed Aquarium Resource Trade
This is way off topic, but as soon as the Best Practice Manual is Published, the SMART label will be discussed with all industry operators at every level.
More to come on this SMART topic......but it will be the future of our industry and scientifically prove that our industry is not only sustainable, but for the good of the environment. Get SMART everyone!
Eric
PS SMART = Sustainably Managed Aquarium Resource Trade
Please read Kevin's 4th and 5th paragraphs closely, he is not talking labels here and I think you can sense his frustrations. He is letting you know what he is learning the people on the Department of Natural Resource board and in Washington DC are concerned with. Kevin attends these meetings on a regular basis and is one of the main professional voices for our industry.
Transshipping corpses and wholesaling fish that arrive on Monday and are forced through the system by the weekend bleaching time is not responsible. Contrast this to Quality Marine's multiple and separate system setup which allows acclimation, discourages disease and parasite spread and provides a consistent daily and weekly supply and inventory for the customers, both retail and etail.
QM will be the model the government and future inspectors may allow and the one retailers and etailers should support. In my personal experience QM's shipping death rates are the lowest in the industry for eight years in a row. That is all the Feds will be concerned about,----- what is actually happening, not the label------ and they are right now figuring it out with Kevin's input. Kevin will tell you it is not easy and those with the power are not all pro-aquarium trade.
This is serious and not street talk, when you have a chance please visit with Kevin Kohen at one of the conferences.
I urge all retailers, etailers and wholesalers to support the Quality Marine model of livestock and customer care. If you do not support the QM concept then you are part of the problem. That is the future of our industry, not the screech and bleach--- cash and credit card Wholesalers or the transshippers of mori bound specimens.
Race
Transshipping corpses and wholesaling fish that arrive on Monday and are forced through the system by the weekend bleaching time is not responsible. Contrast this to Quality Marine's multiple and separate system setup which allows acclimation, discourages disease and parasite spread and provides a consistent daily and weekly supply and inventory for the customers, both retail and etail.
QM will be the model the government and future inspectors may allow and the one retailers and etailers should support. In my personal experience QM's shipping death rates are the lowest in the industry for eight years in a row. That is all the Feds will be concerned about,----- what is actually happening, not the label------ and they are right now figuring it out with Kevin's input. Kevin will tell you it is not easy and those with the power are not all pro-aquarium trade.
This is serious and not street talk, when you have a chance please visit with Kevin Kohen at one of the conferences.
I urge all retailers, etailers and wholesalers to support the Quality Marine model of livestock and customer care. If you do not support the QM concept then you are part of the problem. That is the future of our industry, not the screech and bleach--- cash and credit card Wholesalers or the transshippers of mori bound specimens.
Race
I applaud the posting by Kevin Kohen and I agree with Race Foster. Federal regulations (like HR 669) and fish health regulations (like those for KHV and EUS in the European Unon) are a serious threat to the trades in freshwater and marine fish. We need to ensure that better handling, shipping, and holding practices are put in place and that these practices are enforced. If the trade does not self regulate to reduce the mortality, then government agencies will do it, or more likely take steps to shut down the trade.
Peter Rubec
Peter Rubec
I had not gone into depth on the SMART label concept, but since this has been treated lightly, let me explain.
SMART label will be carried on livestock that are the result of a Fisheries Management Plan from the region the fish or corals are collected in. This is no street talk, and needs to be supported by the entire industry.
I had mentioned Reefcheck....which by the way we have been supporting for 9 years and recently have been urging retailers and others to become members....and Sea Dwelling Creatures has been refunding customers membership fees by crediting them back on their fish orders. That's backing up what we are saying with hard green cash value!
Reefcheck will be scientifically be monitoring collection areas in each country where SMART animals are imported from, and there will be quotas set up according to the monitoring data using MAQTRAC system. There will be no more non-reguluated collection quantities on fish and inverts. This will make sure that we are all collecting in a sustainable manner. Each year the areas will be re-monitored and new quotas will be set up.
We are already doing this in Mexico and our first monitoring after a year of collecting is being done this month. I am diving on the sites to personally over see the monitoring process next week...if the weather permits.
This is going to be the model of the future. It will be clearly based on science and will have the support of the US Government agencies that we hope to get funding from to set up the monitoring process's and put everything into place. We already have Mexico, and my plan is to immediately start monitoring and setting up management plans in other regions we are collecting fish from like the Marshal Islands, Belize, Hawaii, Florida, etc etc....and the SMART label will be born.
The SMART label will follow the fish that were collected in a monitored and quota based manner. Hence the name Sustainably Managed Aquarium Resouce Trade!
I read Kevin's comments and I did not comment because some of what he said I do not agree with. I do agree that Transhipping fish is bad for the industry, and result with higher doa's giving our industry a bad name. I mentioned a Best Practice Manual which will address these issues. Although my business is personally effected by the transhipping game, I am not going to push for a ban on transhipping, but working to develop better practices which would make their business practices more sustainable. I think THIS is the right thing to do and a much more diplomatic approach regardless of how it may negatively effect my business.
We can just disagree about the business model of Quality Marine which I personally think has been bad for the retailers of this country. Fortunately, I believe that the trend of etailing has passed us and changed into a much more specialized market. We have seen more and more hobbyists turn to support their retailers for common items, and have used etailers for more specialized items such as popular coral frags, or high end items that the retailers have a hard time inventoring. We can all see that the trends of etailing now are in the coral fragging sector, and many growers are popping up and becoming successful. I love it! The trade shows and hobby shows showing strong support for this sector is so exciting to me. It's great for the industry and an exciting time for the hobby.
My comments are not hearsay. I know that the big etailing numbers are down on the common items. Marine Depot is done. Pet Solutions business is down since switching from us over to QM. Vivid Aquarium, Blue Zoo and a few others are not doing big numbers in common fish and corals and have clearly shown the trend is on the high end side or coral fragging. Kevin has told me as well that business is not what is was. Part of this is due to the economy, but I have faith in the every day hobbyist that has realized the need to support their local retailer. Anyway, soon the retailers will have the same opportunities as etailers to become pseduo etailers as technology develops where they can just turn to a computer screen to see expanded inventories and their customers can just click and shop if they don't see the product in stock...but that's another exciting topic for another time.
Race.... SDC has three different fish systems..not just one. I have never heard the term "screech and bleach", but it surprised me you said that. We have developed our handling methods with the help of Vet Dr. Bob Hildreth, Dr Tim Miller Morgan of Oregon State and the years of testing we did with them when others denied to participate. I believe that our results are far superior than anyone elses but honestly don't know for sure and would have to see QM's doa reports to compare to ours to know for sure. I am speaking both in-house doa's and ship-outs.
We only bleach one system every month and the fish that are in those freshly bleached systems are showing us the best results. We see the results every day with our lower mortality rates. We don't rush anything! Not sure if you were insinuating we do although I do know many wholesalers do not take the same time and effort that we do. We have more quarantine gallons that anyone in the industry (that I know of) and years ago have built two seperate fish systems to medicate fish through the acclimation process. Fish are not rushed off the acclimation table (which have $10,000 monitoring systems), and we only sell what is eating and ready to go. We are leading by example and we have seen the industry "step-up" over the years and raise their quality levels in order to compete. Similar to Fosters and Smith with the live arrival guarantee...it has raised the bar and it's a very good thing for the industry.
I think the retailers have clearly chosen which business model they want to support, and it's not the one that drop-ships to John and Jane Doe. We have gone a different direction and just want to provide the best product at a competitive price, without sacrificing anything to the retailer and industry professional. Our new web site and business focus has enabled our company to recently grow and become more successful than ever before.
I look forward to speaking more with Kevin on how we can work closer together to help make the industry become more sustainble. These combined efforts will help us all reach our goals.
All the best,
Eric
PS...maybe this thread needs to split and start another topic? How about, "Leading us to a Sustainable Industry"?
SMART label will be carried on livestock that are the result of a Fisheries Management Plan from the region the fish or corals are collected in. This is no street talk, and needs to be supported by the entire industry.
I had mentioned Reefcheck....which by the way we have been supporting for 9 years and recently have been urging retailers and others to become members....and Sea Dwelling Creatures has been refunding customers membership fees by crediting them back on their fish orders. That's backing up what we are saying with hard green cash value!
Reefcheck will be scientifically be monitoring collection areas in each country where SMART animals are imported from, and there will be quotas set up according to the monitoring data using MAQTRAC system. There will be no more non-reguluated collection quantities on fish and inverts. This will make sure that we are all collecting in a sustainable manner. Each year the areas will be re-monitored and new quotas will be set up.
We are already doing this in Mexico and our first monitoring after a year of collecting is being done this month. I am diving on the sites to personally over see the monitoring process next week...if the weather permits.
This is going to be the model of the future. It will be clearly based on science and will have the support of the US Government agencies that we hope to get funding from to set up the monitoring process's and put everything into place. We already have Mexico, and my plan is to immediately start monitoring and setting up management plans in other regions we are collecting fish from like the Marshal Islands, Belize, Hawaii, Florida, etc etc....and the SMART label will be born.
The SMART label will follow the fish that were collected in a monitored and quota based manner. Hence the name Sustainably Managed Aquarium Resouce Trade!
I read Kevin's comments and I did not comment because some of what he said I do not agree with. I do agree that Transhipping fish is bad for the industry, and result with higher doa's giving our industry a bad name. I mentioned a Best Practice Manual which will address these issues. Although my business is personally effected by the transhipping game, I am not going to push for a ban on transhipping, but working to develop better practices which would make their business practices more sustainable. I think THIS is the right thing to do and a much more diplomatic approach regardless of how it may negatively effect my business.
We can just disagree about the business model of Quality Marine which I personally think has been bad for the retailers of this country. Fortunately, I believe that the trend of etailing has passed us and changed into a much more specialized market. We have seen more and more hobbyists turn to support their retailers for common items, and have used etailers for more specialized items such as popular coral frags, or high end items that the retailers have a hard time inventoring. We can all see that the trends of etailing now are in the coral fragging sector, and many growers are popping up and becoming successful. I love it! The trade shows and hobby shows showing strong support for this sector is so exciting to me. It's great for the industry and an exciting time for the hobby.
My comments are not hearsay. I know that the big etailing numbers are down on the common items. Marine Depot is done. Pet Solutions business is down since switching from us over to QM. Vivid Aquarium, Blue Zoo and a few others are not doing big numbers in common fish and corals and have clearly shown the trend is on the high end side or coral fragging. Kevin has told me as well that business is not what is was. Part of this is due to the economy, but I have faith in the every day hobbyist that has realized the need to support their local retailer. Anyway, soon the retailers will have the same opportunities as etailers to become pseduo etailers as technology develops where they can just turn to a computer screen to see expanded inventories and their customers can just click and shop if they don't see the product in stock...but that's another exciting topic for another time.
Race.... SDC has three different fish systems..not just one. I have never heard the term "screech and bleach", but it surprised me you said that. We have developed our handling methods with the help of Vet Dr. Bob Hildreth, Dr Tim Miller Morgan of Oregon State and the years of testing we did with them when others denied to participate. I believe that our results are far superior than anyone elses but honestly don't know for sure and would have to see QM's doa reports to compare to ours to know for sure. I am speaking both in-house doa's and ship-outs.
We only bleach one system every month and the fish that are in those freshly bleached systems are showing us the best results. We see the results every day with our lower mortality rates. We don't rush anything! Not sure if you were insinuating we do although I do know many wholesalers do not take the same time and effort that we do. We have more quarantine gallons that anyone in the industry (that I know of) and years ago have built two seperate fish systems to medicate fish through the acclimation process. Fish are not rushed off the acclimation table (which have $10,000 monitoring systems), and we only sell what is eating and ready to go. We are leading by example and we have seen the industry "step-up" over the years and raise their quality levels in order to compete. Similar to Fosters and Smith with the live arrival guarantee...it has raised the bar and it's a very good thing for the industry.
I think the retailers have clearly chosen which business model they want to support, and it's not the one that drop-ships to John and Jane Doe. We have gone a different direction and just want to provide the best product at a competitive price, without sacrificing anything to the retailer and industry professional. Our new web site and business focus has enabled our company to recently grow and become more successful than ever before.
I look forward to speaking more with Kevin on how we can work closer together to help make the industry become more sustainble. These combined efforts will help us all reach our goals.
All the best,
Eric
PS...maybe this thread needs to split and start another topic? How about, "Leading us to a Sustainable Industry"?
Just to clarify, I never mentioned who was screech and bleach or who had the QM model. My suggestion was to support those who have the QM model be it Quality Marine, or anyone else.
As far as etailing taking over retail, I think I was the first to argue that would never happen, it is somewhere on a post from a few years ago. I do think however etailing will continue to be a viable concept especially in areas where good local fish stores are hard to come by. It will however remain a limited and niche market. I have said multiple times that none of my personal income is from livestock sales and for me it is more of a hobby to support the hobby. I would like more competition to help develop the etailing market.
I do not like however PAF's model of upstream diversion of product to their own etail site. IMO that concept potentially robs paying customers such as me and other retailers from opportunity for their choice specimens. I will not support them.
I have nothing but good to say for Pet Solutions and most of my other competitors.
As far as etailing taking over retail, I think I was the first to argue that would never happen, it is somewhere on a post from a few years ago. I do think however etailing will continue to be a viable concept especially in areas where good local fish stores are hard to come by. It will however remain a limited and niche market. I have said multiple times that none of my personal income is from livestock sales and for me it is more of a hobby to support the hobby. I would like more competition to help develop the etailing market.
I do not like however PAF's model of upstream diversion of product to their own etail site. IMO that concept potentially robs paying customers such as me and other retailers from opportunity for their choice specimens. I will not support them.
I have nothing but good to say for Pet Solutions and most of my other competitors.
I appreciate the dialogue firstly and foremost.
I wonder what you think of the SMART program after I described how it will work. Of course I will be hoping that you, along with everyone else will support the label once it is finalized. Another part of the SMART program I did not mention is that there will be care sheets for every animal for the retailers to hand out with each animal purchase.
Maybe your company can consider making a contribution to the Reefcheck foundation and help the monitoring process along. That would be awesome, but at least consider to join as a member which is only $25.00 and we will gladly credit you back on your next purchase Reefcheck could really use the support of a company like yours Race. Maybe we could discuss some advertising programs within your website and mail order catalogues.
For weekly updates, go to our website www.seadwelling.com and sign up for our weekly newsletter which discusses issues like this.
Eric
I wonder what you think of the SMART program after I described how it will work. Of course I will be hoping that you, along with everyone else will support the label once it is finalized. Another part of the SMART program I did not mention is that there will be care sheets for every animal for the retailers to hand out with each animal purchase.
Maybe your company can consider making a contribution to the Reefcheck foundation and help the monitoring process along. That would be awesome, but at least consider to join as a member which is only $25.00 and we will gladly credit you back on your next purchase
Reefcheck could really use the support of a company like yours Race. Maybe we could discuss some advertising programs within your website and mail order catalogues. For weekly updates, go to our website www.seadwelling.com and sign up for our weekly newsletter which discusses issues like this.
Eric
Wow Race, PAF must really be a thorn in your side, how many times have you mentioned that you do not like them in this thread? I do not mind that you do not like our model but when you start posting untruths and assumptions then I need to post so that others can see your bias for what it is.
There is no "upstream diversion of product" at PAF other than our sales peoples ability to hold much of the best coral that comes in for ship out to their customers. You state that PAF diverts product to "their own etail site" well we have no etail site at PAF, I have only a static web site. The etail site that you allude to is Blue Zoo Aquatics which is not owned by PAF, is not located at PAF, gets no special diversion of product at PAF. I personally own some shares of Blue Zoo Aquatics, PAF does not. I also own a chunk of Ford stock, that certainly does not mean that Ford is also part of PAF.
I think that you should get a better handle on the truth before you start posting your fiction as fact. Blue Zoo does not pick from our stock until long after all of my sales people have gone through the shipments and pulled out what they want to save for their customers. Blue Zoo does not even have a sales person assigned to them, they show up around 10:00 in the morning to pull their product, even most of the walk ins are done pulling by then. Now that I am not sending the bulk of our cherry corals to Live Aquaria the walk ins are happy, they have a better selection to choose from. Vivid aquarium has been getting a lot of the cherry corals that used to go to Live Aquaria. Blue Zoo definitly gets less of the cherrys than Vivid and the PAF salespeople. I just looked on the Blue Zoo collectors choice section to see what came from PAF, it looks to me like less than 20% of their collectors choice animals came from PAF, certainly less than 25% are from PAF. They source most of their collectors choice animals from other sources. PAF does sell them a lot of bread and butter animals, they shop between 10:30 and 1:00 most days, a time when most of the walk ins have already made their selections and we are not as busy. Blue Zoo has no requirement to buy from PAF, they are free to source their animals from wherever they find the best quality. I know that sounds strange to the way you and Quality Marine do business but that is the way that I do business, if Blue Zoo wants to buy nothing from me and source everything from elsewhere that is fine with me. I have no agreement or requirement that they buy from PAF unless it suits them to do so. I simply own some shares, they run the company the way they see fit without interference from me.
There is no "robbing of choice specimens from paying customers or retailers" that you stated. The best corals that arrive at PAF are held by my sales people for shipout customers and a smaller portion is held by Lupe for walk in customers. Many customers with purchases smaller than Blue Zoo are treated with much more cherry picking latitude than Blue Zoo and that is fact.
I have been in the brick and mortar side of the trade, I had three brick and mortar stores in the Phoenix area. In my opinion your model of getting a wholesaler to drop ship directly to the retail customer is the biggest threat to brick and mortar stores. I do not agree with that model and I have never and hopefully will never do that at PAF. I do not drop ship as in my opinion that is not a level playing field for my retail customers. Unless I offered to drop ship for everyone of my customers and not just a select few who have the resources to organize and market it then it is not a level playing field and I think that retail shop owners should look at that model and refuse to support those businesses who do support drop shipping to the retail customer.
Dave
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