ReefBowl

[brandon4291]

Hello Joey,

Well, I too took this idea about my nano dsb to Dr. Shimek because mine was bubbling, little clear bubbles among patches of algae. It was deep in the bed, in portions I thought were hopefully reducing. he came up with a simple and opposite idea--the bed was aerobic due to patches of algae photosynthesizing on the glass walls next to the DSB (on the glass). This may not make the same difference in the larger DSB in your 20. Also, if your bubbles are coming from patches of brown detritus as opposed to green/red/brown algae spots there may be differences in gas quality.

It made me wonder: what if you painted the tank black around the sandbed portion and hide it--block out light from all sides to the bed. increase depth and decrease grain size; there just has to be a way of adjusting physical parameters to restrict oxygen permeability. What about using a sheet of plastic as a division in a bed, would oxygen readily pass that screen? What effect will this have on sandbed fauna?

I never take all the statements about nano DSB's as a turn-off, it just means it can't be done under the same scaling as conventional reefs (sand bed takes up 1/6 tank depth). Some mystery variable needs to be exaggerated or enhanced to make this possible in nano aquariums...still looking

id like to ask a chemist for the ways to test a dsb for nitrogen vs. O production ---would there be notable pH differences or maybe something an oxygen probe could detect? its important to be able to tell by analysis rather than by sight...before any experiment gets started.

Whats your take?

Brandon

 

[Joey French]

So what you're saying is that the algae in deep sand layers at the edge of the dsb, in contact with the aquarium walls, is photosynthesizing, and therefore bubbling? I believe that this could be the case, except for the fact that I do not have evidence of much algae, cyanobacterial patches, or stratification, as this bed is only eight months old. Most of the bubbling is appearing from all around as well, even against the back wall which receives no light (lifting up plastic vinyl backing to inspect). I also need to let you know the bed is about 3-3 1/2" deep, oolitic sand, with a couple of handfuls of live sand from very established places. I wish there were a way to test, as you mentioned, if anaerobic processes were taking place. In your tiny reefs, what do your nitrates typically look like, on average?
Joey

 

[brandon4291]

Thats a nice observation, about the back area production in the absence of light. Hopefully your bed is reducing, and 8 months is aged enough for it to start if all the other parameters line up. Thats fine grain sand youve mentioned, an important factor on your side. Its harder for oxygen to permeate fine-grained, detritus-laiden sand than it is a clean bed with average reef substrate (crushed items).


Nitrates in this reefbowl haven't been tested (nor any other measure for that matter) in 6 months. A certain dosing regimen, three times a week, keeps everything in check based on the stocking density of corals. Every once in a while Ill check pH in the morning and night just to keep tabs on carbonate alk consumption.
Back when I was compiling data on these physical trends it usually ran between 5-10 ppm Nitrate after water change, up to 15-20 ppm Nitrate before next water change in two-three weeks. Every two weeks is better, less scum builds up on the neck of the bowl.

BTW, I highly recommend anyone order this catalog, its free. This is one of the largest dealers in aquatic scientific supplies Ive seen.

www.aquaticeco.com

 

[Joey French]

Yeah, have received this catalog for some time now, ordered a chiller from it. Great company, lots of toys...did I hear someone mention a book a while back? By the way, got any good links to nano sites besides the usual ones?(RC, RDO, Nano-reef, etc.) Haven't seen enough pics lately...
Joey

 

[brandon4291]

have searched the net for various nano sites and links, and found few.

Actually thats where I got the idea to try running led's over sps corals, there was someone on the net who had built a larger array than the one I had and supposedly grew some montipora out 2" or so. I decided in retrospect he was probably lying, given the type setup he photographed as the growout tank. Very bare-bones ten gallon with no rock, just some sand and a frag. His array was large and nicely done though, about 200 lights. All were white/daylight he must have dropped $300 into that light array and had a schematic to back it up.



It is hard to gain an appreciation for the size of this aged system without a ruler, it is a little over 7" tall water column. In review, this is what the reefbowl has housed for the past 1.5 years:

1. Euphyllia hammer coral

2. " " frogspawn *recently added

3. Clavularia (clove polyps)

4. Green Star Polyps

5. Two leather varieties, sarcophyton. "Spaghetti and lettuce-cup"

6. Ricordea

7. Rhodactis

8. Xenia

9. Corallimorpharians: mushrooms blue and red

10. Blastomussa, not sure of specifics

11. Anthelia

12. Caulastrea

13. Montipora digitata

14. Acropora unknown var.

15. Palythoa button polyps

16. Assorted brown/metallic zooanthids (small colony)

17. Purple Sea Squirt colony ** 6 months old in this system

18. T.Derasa** recent addition

what else do I have to do to prove coral do not count as bioload in a balanced reef setup? The corals are added slowly over time, and this possibly acclimatizes each member to new sensory information among corals (why else do they not sting each other to death?) This bowl is completely unfiltered, unskimmed, unexported except for bi-weekly water changes--if there are irritant chemicals, nematocysts or metals accumulating in the system the polyps certainly don't show it....

The new T Clam is in the very front of the reefbowl, just above the substrate resting on a rock. The coralline was scraped to create a viewing area for the bright purple tissue of the opened clam.

 

[Joey French]

Man, I wouldn't have a clue as to how to clean the coralline off that glass...

 

[brandon4291]

It builds up thick on the bottom where I can't reach it without dislodging my montipora... corals come first!

The wierd thing about this picture is all the corals in view are still in the above shots too. Most have been relocated and are obscured by coralline. This picture is one of many aquascaping trials of the reefbowl...

When using Seachem blue Calcium and Seachem liquid carbonate, I had good coralline growth. With C-Balance, its twice as much.

 

[BallPy]

Just out of curiousity. What kind of additives do you use and how often. When you say Bi-weekly do you mean 2 times a week or every 2 weeks. Sorry I am kinda retarted today. :?

 

[wombat1]

Brandon, are you sure that's a T. derasa?

 

[brandon4291]

No Matt I really wasnt sure...LFS thought it was but after some pic review it looks like a blue maxxima? It has become my favorite specimen with its siphon action. They do grow quickly dont they... mine has another ring added since its addition. its a white ridge that has not become encrusted yet...I figure its good for 7 months in here before it needs to be traded or relocated.

I was trying lots of different additives for the first year, and have basically boiled it down to 10-12 mLs per week of each of the two-part solutions in C-Balance. It will consume a scaled-down dosing of any of the popular dosers, have also used Kent Pro Buffer DKH and turbo calcium with success. The trick is to dose it with about 3-4 mls each 3 times weekly. This spreads out the addition of new ions, replacing those bound in the system through chemical or biological processes. I was meaning every two weeks it gets a water change, sometimes it goes three. The only other maintenance past the dosings three times a week is the topoff--also once every three days.

Heres a measurement of the small tridacnid clam. Btw, I have seen him inhale HBJ frog pellet bits into the "intake manifold" I do believe this is yet another organism along with dogs, cats, salamanders, LPS Coral, frogs, lizards, turtles, newts, fish, crabs, copepods, anemones and birds that will readily eat this stuff. I nominate this pellet food as the single most versatile feed on the market, there has to be some kind of illegal attractant in it for it to elicit a feeding response this good...

 

[wombat1]

T. maxima should have scutes or ridges on the side of the shell, while T. derasa will be almost perfectly smooth. I've never seen or heard of a blue derasa. How much did they sell it for?

 

[brandon4291]

Excellent ID characters Matt/ this is definately scuted! Thanks for the tip--Ill edit that earlier posting to get the right ID. I paid $49 for it, may not be a good deal considering what they go for on the net but it was good for local Lubbock. It will have nice trade-in value when 6"...

 

[BallPy]

Another quick question. You said you were running a heater. What size is it, ie watts and length. The reason I am asking is I just lost my Beta and was going to use his old tank as my new nano. It is a 2g hex I believe. It was given to me so I am not 100% ont the size. Here is a pic for you to help. I was toying with the idea of taking the plastic colum and using aquarium sealant to attach it to the back of the tank and use the same kind of water circulation you are. The only thing is do you think I will need a skimmer. I do plan on sealing the top as much as possible.

 

[BallPy]

here is another pic.

 

[brandon4291]

Hello Ballpy, nice to see you here in our Nano forum! You have alot of potential in that system--pico reefs of this size (2g) are in my opinion the final cutoff point for the inclusion of fish, and at that very small ones.

I do believe you could keep a small fish (neon, cherry goby) without skimming depending on the design features. A skimmer would reduce water changes, but at this size water changes are very easy and the money is better spent on lighting IMO. If you pack the inside densely with quality LR and provide circulation in one way or another, that is enough surface area to safely nitrify the ammonia wastes from a small marine fish and its associated light feedings. The variable will be the rate of nitrate accumulation and required water change intervals to export it. I do not forsee a problem with nitrite or ammonia burns in this tank if circulation is good and if you stack it with LR, top to bottom. Refugiums and skimmers require plumbing unless you find or build internal models, an added design challenge for a 2g tank. That said, I think its best left unskimmed and unplumbed for less hassle.

You have many options with that tank, about 5 came to me just while I was thinking about the pictures. Pros and cons of keeping the UGF (gravel filter) pros and cons to sealing/circulation issues etc.

There are several aspects that need to be considered, chiefly the long term goals for the system, before a good design can be reached. Coral
only, or coral and fish? Even the sealing system (fully-sealed, partially sealed) can't be best stated without a thorough review of the plans. Lighting affects this greatly--will there be a custom canopy (causing added heat buildup) or a fully-vented PC light setup? The differences in evaporation between the two are shocking on a pico and greatly affect my choice in sealing for example.

Tell me a little more about what you want long term for the system, especially if you want heavy or light coral load, fish/no fish and how much your upper limit on cash would be.

brandon429

 

[BallPy]

brandon,
I was planning on only having corals. I also plan on having about a 3inch bed in it with LR. As for circulation, I was going to us the air colum shown in the pic. I dont plane on using UGF, except maybe for a kind of plenum, but I definitly wont be hooking up the tube to it. Lighting, well I am not going to build a canopy, I will probably just use a PC light. The top that comes with it should seal up good. Here is an older pic with the top on it. I will be using silicone to attach the tube to the side of the tank and use a big air pump and stone for the circulation.

P.S.- What kind of air stone do you recommend?

 

[brandon4291]

I would recommend any of the quality ceramic airstones. Would be concerned about typical gritstones breaking down over time, especially behind a thick layer of LR. I think that system will work just fine with the lights you've described. Lets talk more about a lighting system (you know Im going to recommend Azoo Galaxy lights ) because a couple 13w pc's with combo bulbs will allow you to keep some stony corals and many soft varieties. You can stack the LR base tall enough to hold them up near the lights. Heck, I suspect with good Ca+ and ALk maintenance you can keep SPS up near the top--I do.

This will turn out to be a neat nano, and due to its size I don't think you'll have alot of salinity shift (above to 2-3day avg for nanos) considering the low-heat light source we've mentioned. This will be a fun project.

Brandon

 

[brandon4291]

Oh, sorry about the delay on the heater reply...I use any of the GOOD 6" thermostat controlled heaters, pretty common nowadays. The magnetic contact versions are reliable and allow you to keep your nano in a cooler room (for upper temp clearance stability) yet it maintains 80 degrees through the night. THese nanos must either be kept in a well-air conditioned room or be kept under very minimal lighting. THe azoo galaxy series is a nice middle ground between the two...
Brandon

 

[BallPy]

THis will be located in my office which has the air turned off on the weekends. Do you think that there will be a heat problem with that? I was also trying to figure out the best way to seal the top.

 

[brandon4291]

I think there is a chance of overheating if the cooling system does shut down on the weekends, time to look into accessory fan cooling. These are vital observations for sure and will affect the final design of the reef. Ive been thinking for awhile about my guess for the best approach for that system, all things considered. heres my .02:

1. I like to use the finest possible sand for DSB purposes. I like the mosaic look of shells and larger chips interspersed, but 90% needs to be fine sand for these pico reefs IMO. Mainly to prevent large particle permeation in the bed and its resulting accumulation. On that note you may choose to go with a very shallow or no sand bed, where your LR will do all the bioload processing and detritus can be kept to >5% standard accumulation. This will result in the lowest possible nitrate readings for any pico system, but will also have less biodiversity so its your choice. I would not use a two-three inch layer of coarse crushed-coral sand--major nitrate factory (hard to keep clean) to bring up this old term again...

2. I think you could keep a tiny marine fish in this tank when fully built, Im sure there will be enough internal surface area to process a small neon or cherry-head goby and its associated feed.

3. Install a 6" thermometer (at least 50w no smaller) along the back and pile LR on top of it, all the way to the top. Likely you'll never have to mess with it again once its set. The bulk LR is your sole means of surface area, and the partner to your relative current that will deal with these fish wastes unskimmed and unexported. Mass LR is key in a densely stocked pico.

4. For now, until evaporation is measured, Id try to reinforce your lid to that tank as best as possible--try to seal up the areas around the seams as best as possible. These are the areas that will lightly collect saltcreep and require weekly cleaning. Then I would install a small ceramic airstone, to be used only to keep the air fresh above the water--a small pressure vent will develop under the partially-sealed lid and this will also affect the rate of evaporation. A small minijet 14 powerhead will do the current work, maybe even two when you get into stonies. Add lights as you've said, with 13w pcs as the best approach. If you will buy combo bulbs for the set, even better.

5. Dose the system with any current two-part additive. water change intervals are not going to replenish Ca+ and Alk to any useful degree--if you want growing corals add Ca+ and Alk supplements. Also add Dt's, I feel this enhances the quality of the LR growth in time.

6. Have a backup fan ready and the right timers to control everything. Also, I think a Kent LiquiDoser Drip line would work well for topoff here. These gravity-fed, pinch-roller units have a decreasing flow rate as they reach half-way mark. For a steady drip-rate (and stable specific gravity) don't let it get more than half-way drained. You will just be adding three cups of distilled water to the container every two-three days, while it drips at ~1 drop per five seconds. Less if your sealing is effective...

You may find in cooler situations that you dont have to topoff more than every 2or 3 days with a flux of about .024-.027 in between topoffs. Not a big deal, this is what all my 18 varieties have adapted too for well over a year now. I know your system will run well, but first lets fill it up and get it circulating with lights on to get a feel for the evap. rate.

That is a nano in the works! it will be a fun project and look great in your office...