TO SUMP OR NOT TO SUMP.

[Anonymous]

Im pretty new at this so bare with me:
Im in the process of setting up a natural reef tank. Im talking with various other hobists about the step by step do's and don'ts of how to do this.

I have a 75 gal tank. the question is this: Do I need a sump or not. If so why or why not. ie pros and cons

Also: if i do need one I have a 15 gal tank i can use.. how ever, I dont know the first thing about setting it up.. could you also tell me what is involved. ( remeber to use little words no more then 1 or 2 syllables and please use words in english). Baby steps if you will 8O

Thanks in advance for your help
:roll:

 

[Len]

You're probably unaware, but "The Sump" forum isn't really about sumps It's an "off topic" forum for our members to discuss non-reefkeeping material. I've moved you to our New Reefkeepers Forum which you'll find more responses to your reefkeeping questions. Welcome to our family!

 

[Jolieve]

I am fairly new at this myself. Welcome to reefs.org! You've come to the right place.

You want a sump. Here's why: More surface area = better gas exchange. More oxygen in the water, less carbon dioxide. That means you're going to have less problems with algae in the future as a lot of nuisance algaes need higher carbon dioxide levels to survive.

Further pluses for getting a sump (and I think 15 gallons might be a tad small, might want to look into something bigger). You can store your heater, skimmer, carbon bags and most any other tank gear.. in the sump! Thus having it not clutter up your tank with bulky equipment. Also, a sump will provide you with an easier means for cooling the tank during those hot summer months.

Best of all... you could put some live sand in your sump, and a macroalgae... and have a refugium! That's a great place for growing copepods and making free food for your fish! It would also give you someplace to remove a tank bully to, if you needed.

My .02 cents. Go sump.

J.

 

[Anonymous]

Unless your tank is drilled for a sump, one vote against it.

I have had a 90 gallon sumpless for about two years now. I have done something to make it operate better. I took a overflow box and put a hot magnum pumps intake in the box and the jet into the tank. It takes any crude off the top but I do not put any media in the filter and clean it monthly. A siphon over flow is a bad idea if you ask me, I have one on a 55 gallon reef and it is a pain in the butt.

I have had a healthier tank that is sumpless than any of my tanks with a sump. The pod population is unbelievable when you are not pureeing them through a sump.

My experience has been very good without a sump, once I figured out how to rid the floating junk that collects on the water.

Oh yea I run a huge protien skimmer.

Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Unless your tank is drilled for a sump, one vote against it.
I took a overflow box and put a hot magnum pumps intake in the box and the jet into the tank. It takes any crude off the top.....

EGADS! What are you putting in there, Dave??? 8O

<enter Beverly Hillbillies tune..> Texas tea, black gold... :lol:

<now sm enters XFiles mode..> Mulder..? Is that you...?

 

[mkirda]

I have a 75 gal tank. the question is this: Do I need a sump or not. If so why or why not. ie pros and cons

Also: if i do need one I have a 15 gal tank i can use.. how ever, I dont know the first thing about setting it up.. could you also tell me what is involved.

You can have a great tank either way. It is simpler to go sumpless, but your selection for skimmers is severely limited, and none of them are very powerful. Going with a sump allows you to add as powerful a skimmer as you want.

Skimmers are a newbie's best friend. You can really goof up and they will keep the tank stable... Sort of like swerving on an empty six-lane highway vs. a single lane mountain road...

Sumps add complexity, but have lots of benefits. However, no matter how you slice it, they will cost more to make, and more to run in electricity costs.

Personally, I am sold on sumps, and have a sump that is larger than my tank...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

i have a sump

I just tested my nitrates for the first time in 1.5 months.

Test came back 0

So, I like that

However, get all the pics of others you can, and make sure you can silence it somehow before you fill the system with water.

I will not point you to a post of my system as that is NOT the way to do it.

Bryan

 

[ChrisRD]

I like having a sump, for some of the reasons mentioned above, but you don't need one, as Mike pointed out.

Before you start buying equipment, I would recommend looking into what species you want to keep as this will play a large role in determining how you'll want to setup the tank.

Also, if you don't already have one, I'd suggest getting a good book to start off with such as John Tullock's (second from the top):

http://www.reefs.org/library/reading/beginner/beginner.html

HTH

 

[Anonymous]

I think for the sake of people new to the hobby it would help in situations where they are asking for a direct comparison of two things such as a sump or not a sump, it would be helpful if people qualified thier statements with the fact that they have first hand experience in both situations or equipment.

It is true that a sump adds versitility to what you can do, you must wiegh that agianst the fact that a tank that is not drilled for a sump has inherent limitations. If you are drilled for a sump or can have it drilled for a sump then I think the choice of having a sump is the best one. Also all protien skimmers that I know of that can be used in a sump, can be used in a main tank. It just becomes a matter of how to deal with the fact that visually it is there. Not a very difficult problem to overcome with putting your rock work together and incorporating the skimmer into it.

EGADS! What are you putting in there, Dave??? 8O

<enter Beverly Hillbillies tune..> Texas tea, black gold... :lol:

<now sm enters XFiles mode..> Mulder..? Is that you...?

Just curious SM, do you have any experience in keeping a large sumpless tank? Every person I know that has done it has had to face the fact that organic material collects on the water surface and can be a problem in two ways, it can disrupt surface water tension which leads to a poorer gas exchange, and nitrate build up and it can lead to an odor.

If someone is seeking advice it may help to make sure that they get advice that can help them in making a solid decision.

 

[ChrisRD]

I agree that I would go sumpless before I used a hang-on overflow. No sump, or a drilled tank (with sump) is the way to go IMO.

I also agree that the surface "slick" can become an issue in a sumpless tank with a hang-on skimmer - especially with the smaller/less efficient models (most of the stuff that collects on the surface is the type of stuff the skimmer should be removing!).

The surface skimmer boxes available for some of the hang-on models can really help with the surface slick. One thing I don't like about that type of setup, however, is that your water level becomes more critical (too high you don't get much surface skimming, too low the pump runs dry).

IMO if that's a concern, a tank that is drilled for an overflow is the easiest solution as it eliminates that situation.

 

[DOGMAI]

EGADS! What are you putting in there, Dave??? 8O

<enter Beverly Hillbillies tune..> Texas tea, black gold... :lol:

<now sm enters XFiles mode..> Mulder..? Is that you...?

Easy there fishaholic I think that the above comments were a joke. Maybe it was because you said crude. Pertaining to the thought of oil. Also just because somebody does not have experience with something does not mean they dont know what they are talking about. I guess you do have experience with a large sumpless tank otherwise you would not have asked SM. So now that you are the authority on large sumples tanks I shall dub the "knower of all that is sumpless"

 

[Anonymous]

EGADS! What are you putting in there, Dave??? 8O

<enter Beverly Hillbillies tune..> Texas tea, black gold... :lol:

<now sm enters XFiles mode..> Mulder..? Is that you...?

Easy there fishaholic I think that the above comments were a joke. Maybe it was because you said crude. Pertaining to the thought of oil. Also just because somebody does not have experience with something does not mean they dont know what they are talking about. I guess you do have experience with a large sumpless tank otherwise you would not have asked SM. So now that you are the authority on large sumples tanks I shall dub the "knower of all that is sumpless"

Sorry but I think there is a difference between helping someone and joking. I joke with SM and others in the sump all the time. If someone comes here asking for help then offer it and by all means tell them your experience and how you qualify it. I do not mind joking around but if you want to make a joke then by all means please contribute something of value to what is being asked.

And yes it does help if you have experience in dealing with a situation much better than someone who has read some posts or a few books. With experience comes different choices in dealing with problems. I would not say I have the best solutions to problems faced with tanks with out sumps, I have however overcome some limitations.

Just curious, what do you have to add?

 

[Jolieve]

I'll just um.. qualify my statements by saying that I have been running my tank sumpless... and I have issues with the height of my tank and more water volume creating poor gas exchange and well.. a slick on the surface of my water.

In my unqualified opinion, there are down sides to choosing any particular filtration method over another. Cannister filters are nitrate factories, with sumps you have risk of flooding, going sumpless means you deal with the film on the surface of the water and possible issues with having to find creative ways to get rid of it. Biowheels are nitrate factories too.

By the way.. I'm a newbie! I admit it!

J.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll just um.. qualify my statements by saying that I have been running my tank sumpless... and I have issues with the height of my tank and more water volume creating poor gas exchange and well.. a slick on the surface of my water.

I can help with these problems with easy solutions. The slick is a problem I have seen with my set ups and have seen with a few friends. I do not at all think it is a by product of under quality protien skimming as all that I have known that have sumpless tanks of any significant size encounter it. It is easy to deal with. Also I too like the gas exchange that I get with my sumped tank, I just like the way my sumpless is very worry free.

The gas exchange I direct my jet to break the surface area as is seen in the photo. I also use the overflow box to rid the tank of the slick, I went to my local LFS to buy one and it cost 10 dollars.

The pic other than the overflow box set up is the tank itself and the results I get.

 

[MitchMc]

To sump or not to sump that tis the question,
Whether tis nobler in the mind
to suffer the slings and arrows of mechanical filtration,
Or to take up arms against a sea of devices
And by not using them to filter. Au natural

Seriously

I have had salt water fish for years (off and on since the 70’s)
Read lots ( currently on my desk are “Clownfishes” – J Wilkerson,
“Aquarium Corals”- Borneman, ‘Invertebrates a quick reference”- J Sprun, “Corals forth reef aquarium” – Puterbaugh & Bornman)
No expert and I still screw up ( just moved houses and killed off all my last couple of fish *sigh*)

My 2 cents

Big sump lots of sand and rocks, get as much green stuff (carp et al) growing as you can

The more bio mass in terms of waste processing the more stable/ forgiving your tank will be

Don’t forget to plug in your heater when you move and leave your tank in the garage


Cheers
MitchMc

 

[Len]

Hey Mitch, glad to see you back posting again You were on a hiatus for a bit if I'm not mistaken.

 

[DOGMAI]

I myself have no sump, and I dont claim to know a lot about them. All I know is that i want one. I want to put the skimmer and heater in there. I also want a refugium. My mistake is I did not start out planning to do a reef. I bought a stand that will not allow for a good size sump and fuge. I know that my next tank will be reef ready. I also know that no matter what people tell you your going to find out the hard way. I tell people that keeping a reef tank is easy. Not alot of maintenance. But then again I love to do the maintenance. To another person it might seem like an insane amount of maintenance. Either way there is only one way that person is really going to find out and that is to actually do it. Until then they will never know. I say that they should go for the sump. Start out with it and if you dont like it take it off. Easy as that. At the end of the day they are still going to do what they want to do no matter waht other people say.

 

[MitchMc]

Hey Mitch, glad to see you back posting again You were on a hiatus for a bit if I'm not mistaken.

Yes thanks for noticing
lots of work, moved homes, ect

of interest my school http://www.abes2000.com just signed a deal with the Calgary Zoo all of their zookeeprs are trained through our Zoo and Aquarium Tecnology program ( The zoo hires them and sends them to us for training....cool)

Now to get Rob toonen and a few others to start on the Aquarium end of things, sell the program to the Americian association (met the head of AZA last month at a conference) then take over the world LOL
Cheers
MitchMc

 

[Anonymous]

I am going sumpless in one of the tanks that I am setting up. Luckily, there is a corner overflow and so the amount of slick is almost insignificant.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, after Fish has chewed us all out I think I might add something more



My 55 gal was run sumpless for 1.5 years as a fish only. I hated the fact that the skimmer, while a good one, stuck up behind the tank and was very noisy. I also hated the fact that I had to do so much maintenance.

I had to clean the skimmer, filter, vacuum the gravel and do a water change every single week. If I skipped a week the nitrates would go through the roof.

I did have the tank overstocked of course, what newbie doesn't?

Now I have a 20 gal sump, and a DSB and tons of Live Rock. I had the tank drilled for the overflows as I was afraid of hang on the back ones. (too many horror stories, even though I have no experience with them)

In truth the only two things I would change are my plumbing job which is the noisiest thing on God's green earth, and the size of my sump. If I was going to do it over again I would put it in the basement and about 100 gallons.

So, to answer the question, I would go sump with a drilled tank, every time

Bryan


Ps, Dave weren't you a little harsh on SM?

maybe its just me