Water changes

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hear what happened, Dawn.

I have the following comments:
1, Whose idea is it that the AC duct will be able to cool your tank? This just remind me of an old thread using outdoor cold air thru skimmer to cool tank. Won't work, if you have VHO or MH. But I guess you are going fish only, so it may work out.

2, "We blew bubbles in the tank..." OK... did you use your mouth to aerate the tank water? :8 You are going to put more CO2 than O2, and drop the pH by using exhailed air, stressing the fish this way.

3, Aquarium service is not cheap. Most of the thing is not that difficult if you willing to learn. However, just like the LFS, make sure you have good reference so that they won't disappoint you.

4, why did the serviceman dose iodine in your tank? Does he give you any rationale or reason for the tasks that he/she performs?

 

[Anonymous]

Now, I have someone come in once a week to check everything- puts in things like iodine, etc.

Why not learn how to care for your pets yourself?

 

[Anonymous]

Why I am paying someone to check my tank. We built a new house with the aquar. being the main point between the kitchen and dining room- a see through from both sides. The cabinets were custom built with the guy from the lfs being integrally involved. There was an AC duct built in the top, and we were told we shouln't need a chiller, but perhaps now I do.He has been involved in many large set ups. He sold us over $4000 worth of goods, and set it up. When it was ready to accept fish, in July,we purchased a regal tang, and two gobies. They went into my 20 gal. quar. tank which had been up and running with two damsels since Oct. The lfs also sold me this tank and told me what to put in it. Lava rock, live sand, and plants. The tang and gobies were in the tank for about two weeks when the tang looked like it had ich, but I wasn't sure. The lfs gave me some copper, and told me how to use it. The tang raced to the surface and gulped for air. We blew bubbles in the tank through a tube, and he stayed in the middle of the stream. We now have an air stone.The tang got worse, the next two days it laid on the bottom- my lfs would not come to help me now that they had their money, and told me not to worry, it just takes time. There were red streaks in his tail. I called my vet to see if there was a marine vet in the area, and was surprised to find that the vet we'd gone to for 20 years had some knowledge of this (he had raised cichlids) When we brought the tang in, we were told it was a long shot. He anesthetized him, did scrapings,biopsies,and a shot of antibiotics. The bill for the $45.00 fish was $65.00. Our vet told us to dump the sand, boil, or get rid of everything in the tank. I syphoned 20 gallons out of the reef tank for the quar. tank, ( I had no large container so it was done a bucket at a time)and got new filter sponges.
The next two days were extremely stressful, wondering if the tang would survive. He slowly started going vertical. Despite doing 20% water changes everyday, the tank developed ammonia (the filters were new) It was about this time that I hired someone to help before I went bezerk. We were going away for the next couple of days, and we were advised to put him in the reef tank. Toiday his body is repaired, and he's a happy camper. We trusted the lfs, who left us stranded. Now, I have someone come in once a week to check everything- puts in things like iodine, etc.

8O

 

[kparton]

Why I am paying someone to check my tank. We built a new house with the aquar. being the main point between the kitchen and dining room- a see through from both sides. The cabinets were custom built with the guy from the lfs being integrally involved. There was an AC duct built in the top, and we were told we shouln't need a chiller, but perhaps now I do.He has been involved in many large set ups. He sold us over $4000 worth of goods, and set it up. When it was ready to accept fish, in July,we purchased a regal tang, and two gobies. They went into my 20 gal. quar. tank which had been up and running with two damsels since Oct. The lfs also sold me this tank and told me what to put in it. Lava rock, live sand, and plants. The tang and gobies were in the tank for about two weeks when the tang looked like it had ich, but I wasn't sure. The lfs gave me some copper, and told me how to use it. The tang raced to the surface and gulped for air. We blew bubbles in the tank through a tube, and he stayed in the middle of the stream. We now have an air stone.The tang got worse, the next two days it laid on the bottom- my lfs would not come to help me now that they had their money, and told me not to worry, it just takes time. There were red streaks in his tail. I called my vet to see if there was a marine vet in the area, and was surprised to find that the vet we'd gone to for 20 years had some knowledge of this (he had raised cichlids) When we brought the tang in, we were told it was a long shot. He anesthetized him, did scrapings,biopsies,and a shot of antibiotics. The bill for the $45.00 fish was $65.00. Our vet told us to dump the sand, boil, or get rid of everything in the tank. I syphoned 20 gallons out of the reef tank for the quar. tank, ( I had no large container so it was done a bucket at a time)and got new filter sponges.
The next two days were extremely stressful, wondering if the tang would survive. He slowly started going vertical. Despite doing 20% water changes everyday, the tank developed ammonia (the filters were new) It was about this time that I hired someone to help before I went bezerk. We were going away for the next couple of days, and we were advised to put him in the reef tank. Toiday his body is repaired, and he's a happy camper. We trusted the lfs, who left us stranded. Now, I have someone come in once a week to check everything- puts in things like iodine, etc.

Kudos for doing a ton to take care of your animals. I think you're doing everything you can to keep the tank healthy so as long as your algae stays down and your fish are happy, I think you shouldn't worry about what people like me do with water changes

I will say this, if you have a skimmer and your guy never (as in never, ever) does a water change, I would check my salinity just to make sure it hasn't creeped down too low. But I in no way am insinuating that you're being negligent by not changing water often.

Good luck, I hope you never have to deal with that kind of problem again, sounds way too stressful. My tank is too small for a tang, so I've never undertaken that task.

 

[Rlumenator]

David: AC duct idea-lfs. We use VHO compacts, and it is a reef tank. Yes, we used our mouths out of desperation, besides whisking the tank with a wire whisk (suggested by the lfs, who told us the copper had taken all of the oxygen out of the tank). The fish was gasping, and we didn't know what else to do. This, incidentally, did not make the fish sick, we later learned it was a bacterial infection. Our maint. man has maintained the tank for around five weeks. Iodine- yes, he gives us reasons; iodine is a macronutrient for macroalgae, zooanthelae, and many soft corals. It is used up rapidly and must be replaced for good growth. Delbeek & Sprung rec. weekly dosing of 1 drop per 20 gallons.

Kparton: Thank you. salinity is 1.026; I check all my parameters at least twice a week, and call maint man for advice if something looks wrong in between visits. Also, my hydrometer is now calibrated, it was off by .003, so when I was reading 1.022, it was really 1.019 - I was clueless as to accuracy. My other hyrdometer was off .005- which I returned.

 

[Anonymous]

Dawn, sounds like a nice tank, that is exactly what I want to do between my dining room and future Den.

On water changes, I top off 1 gallon a day of fresh water on my 55. I might do a 4 gal water change every couple of weeks, if there is a lot of gunk to vacuum out of the sump. If you want my advice, make a plan, write it down, and stick to it. If a problem arises you can look at your plan, consult som peeps and adjust accordingly.

Good luck with it, and post some pics!

Bryan

 

[nick morgan]

Water changes - I grew up with a family business,a fish store. We had quite a lot of salt water tanks. Once a tank was established we never did any water changes, only top offs. I currently have 4 saltwater tanks and I don't change the water in any of them. Two years with no water change. What I did was this: Once a tank is established and a top off is needed I remove one gal of water from the tank and top off with fresh water from a barrel,(keep a 25 gal plastic barrel filled with water and an air stone on the side). The 1 gal of water I removed I put in a second barrel with an air stone. Once the barrel is full,(Saltwater), keep an airstone in it. If you ever have to transport your aquarium stock you will need it. Also if your tank springs a leak you have a backup to put your stock in. Crude but it works. This way I can add water to any tank. When a tank needs a top off you can do it with fresh or salt depending on what you need - ie salt density too high - top off with fresh, too low top off with salt. I just moved to a new apt and used the stored water to resetup two of my tanks. I put the live rock and fish back in immeadiatly and all are doing fine. The tanks have been up and running for a month now with no problems.

 

[Anonymous]

fwiw...

there are other things (both organic, and inorganic) that will build up in any closed system, over time,besides nitrates :wink:

most of them have no commercially available cheap kits for which to test

phenols, terpenes, albumens come to mind, as some of the organics i've heard/read about 8O

a w/c is probably the easiest/cheapest/best way to remove them, even if skimming is already employed(i've yet to hear of any assertion that a skimmer removes everything 'polluting')


plus, wc's have the added benefit of replacing those various 'elements' used up on a continual basis by any 'closed' system

even with a good, high quality, alk/Ca additive like b-ionic, i perform, and highly recommend a small, regular and frequent, partial wc, at the very least, as part of good sensible aquarium husbandry-for any type of tank, sw, or fw

just my $0.02

 

[Anonymous]

That comment about dawn taking care of her own animals was totally uncalled for. Clearly dawn has the cash to drop on paying to have her aquarium set up and buying $50 fish as her first fishy pets. Therefore, why should she not drop some cash on having them taken care of by a "professional." I wish I could pay someone to do everything for me so I could just sit on my ass all day long and enjoy the fruits of other people's labor.

Dawn, I believe that water changes should be done on any tank, if only a 5% every two weeks. Even if nitrate is 0, as it always is in my tank, and even if you dose additives, as I do, your tank will benefit from some occasional water changes because there are trace elements in the salt that are not present in your top off water and are not dosed along with your additives.

I would always question the advice of an LFS, pro aquarium caretaker, and even a vet. All three have something to gain from you...$$$.

In my experience (not that I have much), the only advice you can be sure has no strings attached is the advice you get from forums like this one. These people gain nothing by giving you good or bad advice; they are simply sharing experience...so if it comes down to trusting the conflicting info you get here or the solid advice your LFS gives you, sort through the crap here and tell the LFS to take a hike!

And IMO, putting a sick fish into a reef tank because you are failing to cure it in a QT is very bad karma. Whatever that fish had is now in the main tank and can possibly appear months down the road when you have $500 worth of fish in there.

Make sure your caretaker has good references. Don't be afraid to ask him for the phone numbers of some of his customers. If he is good, he should have nothing to hide. I would try and talk to some of his longtime customers and find out what he has done for them and how their tanks are. If everything checks out, then leave this forum, stop researching, sit back, and enjoy the pleasure of having a tank without having to do all the crap work.

Good Luck

 

[ricky1414]

whoah manny, that was kinda harsh.... 8O
but i do have one question. the ac vent may keep the tank cool during the summer, but what about the winter. i know that you are in florida, i lived there too for some time. and it can get pretty chilly. now a heater is used mainly to maintain a tank's temp, not to act as a furnace. won't the vent being on top of the tank area pretty much, but not literally, boil your fish into some kinda reef gumbo? will you run a chiller in that instance? i thought that the tank's placement was to be located in an area that is isolated for any kind of temperature variances?

 

[Anonymous]

What was harsh?

I was merely addressing Hwarang's comment about taking care of your own pets. Dawn is no different than a person who pays a dog grommer to cut their dog's hair or a yard service to cut their lawn. It's true that the satisfaction of looking at that wonderful landscaping and knowing YOU did it is gone, but that doesn't make the landscape any less beautiful.

I felt she was being attacked slightly for paying to have her tank serviced. And I see nothing wrong with it at all.

My last comment was more of a joke than anything else. Of course she should still be interested in what is going on in her tank and she should continue to surf forums and read books, but at least she doesn't have to get funky smelling green skimmer gunk on her once a week! :wink:

 

[clamup]

did anyone notice that the vet said boil the sand etc etc ..probably the tank was never set up right in the first place ? ...fish can adapt to any conditions over time ..put a new one in an it gets sick or seems like poisoned very quickly ..
the hobby has seen many changes since i began 22 years ago but you know its always the simply way that works ..all the equipment in the world wont maintain a tank forever the fish simply adapt slowly ...put it this way if you didnt wash the dog etc an ignored him in the backyard that would be cruel yes?? ..why spend 100s dollars on an aquarium ..1000s?? ..if your not gonna take the time to maintain it properly ?? ..why not just throw the money fish etc in the bin now ..saves time ? ..

 

[danmhippo]

To nick morgan, You mentioned you never do any water changes in your fish store.

I believe that most LFS don't do water changes because the water change equivelant is already performed when you bag fish. Those stores that still has to rely on regular water change must be not selling much of their fish and should not be too proud either.

 

[Anonymous]

I benefit from having about one LFS per square mile in this town and I visit many. My favorite is run by a guy who has been running LFSs for 18 years. He may not perform water changes on his livestock tanks, but he surely does on his display tanks.

His 72 bowfront (identical to my tank) is loaded with fish and corals and even with a DSB he does a few water changes. Not large, and he gets a slight algae bloom when he does, but he seems to think that at least some water changes are good for his tank...and man, that tank looks sooooooo good it makes me sick. :evil:

 

[danmhippo]

did anyone notice that the vet said boil the sand etc etc ..probably the tank was never set up right in the first place ? ...fish can adapt to any conditions over time ..put a new one in an it gets sick or seems like poisoned very quickly ..
the hobby has seen many changes since i began 22 years ago but you know its always the simply way that works ..all the equipment in the world wont maintain a tank forever the fish simply adapt slowly ...put it this way if you didnt wash the dog etc an ignored him in the backyard that would be cruel yes?? ..why spend 100s dollars on an aquarium ..1000s?? ..if your not gonna take the time to maintain it properly ?? ..why not just throw the money fish etc in the bin now ..saves time ? ..

Ugh, how people choose to maintain their tank is not for anyone else to judge. I too find attacks to Dawn hiring professional service a bit ridiculous. It's like some people take their car to drive thru carwash, and some prefer to wax it everyday by themselves.

Also, since you mentioned you began 22 years ago, I would assume you understands boiling the rock and sand is not entirely wrong. Yes, the vet probably aren't aware there are other methods such as hyposalinity that is effective against ich, but I think his intention is to eliminate all stages of ich development once and for all. Nice intention, but wrong method for the saltwater tank.

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Dawn, I would suggest you perform water change for your tank, approximately 10 to 20% per month. You should also have various quality test kits to monitor your water quality and to familiarize yourself what is the "normal" range for each elements being tested.

Water change not only replenish depleted elements, Water change also removed accumulated elements in the solution, and many of these elements us hobbyst simply do not have the means of measuring their concentration.

Also a word of advice, If you or anyone is going to put additives into your tank, make sure it's something you have test kit to measure if how much you add is over or under dosing. If you can't test for it, don't add it. Many among us on these saltwater fish or reef boards maintain excellent tank adds nothing into their tank other than calcium and alkalinity buffers, and strong light, skimmer, and regular water changes.

 

[Anonymous]

what danm said

 

[bookfish]

I noticed that you mentioned copper had been used in the tank (display or qt?) if it was the display tank you should mention this to your current maintenance guy since it's very difficult to remove copper from a reef tank and he may suggest you limit your coral purchasing.
Good luck.-Jim