mixing clownfish, who knows if it can work?

[ebosshard]

I have a 220g tank, 5 damsels, 2 nemo-clowns, 200lbs live rock, 75 lbs live sand.

Put in two false perc clowns (nemo) monday. little guys, tank raised.

Can I also put in two black+white percs as well if I did it this friday/saturday?

I have read in some places that I can get away with different breeds of clowns if they are tank raised and introduced at the same time and are all close to the same size.

Some have said mixing breeds of clowns doesn't work.

Anyone with experience pulling off what I want to pull off? (a set of fale percs and a set of black+white percs)?

Thanks!!

 

[Len]

Tank raised clowns are a lot more docile since they were reared in crammed conditions, but once they mature (and especially when they're sexually mature), clowns of different species won't mix well. I've tried long ago with no luck. I would stick with two clowns of the same species, getting them both when they're juveniles so as they mature, one will morph into a female.

A 220 gallon is quite large though. Maybe you can get away with it if you have two hosting anemones that each set of clown takes residence to. I've never tried in a tank this size, but it doesn't work for a 120 gallon, I can say from experience

 

[ebosshard]

I would love to try it in a tank my size. But I also don't want to have my children watch marlin and nemo grow up only to be eaten by the black and whites I really want as well.

I am still a month or so away from being comfortable enough with my tank conditions to put in anemenoe's (tanks is 6 weeks old now).

Anyone with a 220g tank or having watched someone with a tank this size see someone get away with what I would like to do (a pair of false percs and a pair of black and white clowns).

Thanks!!

 

[Len]

If it's your kids you're concerned with, I'd play it safe. False percs are very docile compared to other clowns and will likely be the one being bullied.

 

[Bill2]

You'll be fine. I have a pair of negripes and a single cap clown. I did get an anemone for both sets and they pretty much stick to their anemone at different ends of the tank.

 

[ebosshard]

Bill2

I am not ready to get an anemonoe quite yet due to my water conditions (i am guessing I need to have this tank up longer than 6 weeks to have it stable enough). 220g, 200lbs live rock, 75lbs live sand. I am making quick biological progress but sense I should wait a bit longer for an anemone.

Now my question. Can I have a pair of false perc clowns and a pair of black and white clowns in this big tank (you seem to say yes) and can I get away with it for 2-4 weeks before I add an anemone.

Thanks for your thots on this!!

 

[Bill2]

Yeah I would think so. You might try putting in a fake host like a koosh ball or something that simulates an anemone.

 

[ebosshard]

are you serious about the koosh? is that really a better alternative than nothing? what do i need my levels/etc to be like in order to accomodate an anemenoe?

 

[Bill2]

I've seen pictures of clowns in a koosh ball. Never tried it myself. You need same parameters as normal corals but usually higher lighting. I would recommend a bubble tip anemone for your first anemone.

 

[Aff]

Well not talking from experience on mixing percs. But have read in couple books that if you add multiple percs usually 2 will pair up and the eventually fight the others. Also I can vouch that percs aren't entirely docile. Had 2 of 'em pounce on a maroon I put in a 75 once. Everytime they'd see it they'd attack. Ever since then I've never been a big fan of mixing different clowns even tho I'd love to do it.

On the subject of anemones tho. For a new tank I'd go with a frogspawn or similar coral. There's no promises that a clown will host in it but there's no promises with an anenome either but sometimes clowns will take up with these. Not to mention they're a little more bulletproof and ya don't have to worry about them moving. Then go for an anemone a few months down the road if you decide to go that route.

 

[surfdawake]

thought i'd chim in, my lfs has a 220, and he has a lta, with a mated pair of tomatos, and its right in the middle, on the left side is a bta with a pair of skunks, and on the right side is a pair of occelaris with some kind of frogspawn or similar coral, they all get along fine, i have been in there hours just staring and have never seen them fight, so i think that you would prob. be ok. just my 2cents austin

 

[JennM]

Holy conflicting information, Batman!

There is no evidence that I have seen, in 17 years in the hobby, and 3 years in the business, that farm raised clowns behave any differently than wild clowns. Instinct and Mother Nature are far more powerful than any human arrogance.

There will always be exceptions to rules when individual animals are concerned.

I generally do not recommend mixing species of clown in the same tank, but people do it because they want to (and who am I anyway, to tell them what they should or shouldn't do?!), sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.

Anemones have little or nothing to do with it. I've seen a tank-raised tomato clown, who never had an amenone, turn ugly once brought "home" and kill the partner she had been living with in my store for 4 months, then she killed a cardinalfish. The clown was returned and she has been a model citizen since. Recently she took up residence in a Heliofungia she is housed with.

On the other hand, I've seen people keep Maroon, Tomato and Perc all in the same 30-gallon tank. IMO that's begging for trouble, but they got away with it. You just never know until you try.

One thing that nobody is advising you about here, is that the natural host anemones for A. percula and A. ocellaris (your "nemo-clown" :roll: ) are carpet anemones. Hard to ship, hard to keep, they get absolutely massive (even for a larger tank) and they will indiscriminately eat other fish. Still think that is a good idea? I don't. Sometimes A. percula and A. ocellaris will take to a Bubble Tip Anemone, but it's hit-and-miss. Sometimes they will choose a coral host, after nearly 2 years my A. ocellaris have adopted some zoanthids to live in. There is no guarantee that the host you provide will be accepted by the clowns, and IMO it's not a good idea to add any anemone to a new tank. Give the system time to mature, and *maybe* it might be a good idea down the road. Then again maybe not.

Chances are that all the "percs" will get along, as they are similar. Eventually you will end up with either a "family group" (sexually mature female & male and 2 subordinate males), or 2 pairs, in the latter case, they will probably keep to opposite ends of the tank.

Is it a good idea? Up to you -- none of us here can predict what will happen either way. I just hope that I've cleared up a few myths/misnomers.

HTH

Jenn

 

[hillbilly]

I would not mix clowns. Clown deaths will likely
occur. Anemones are not needed for clown fish.
For a young tank, it would likely have a short life.
In fact, I think anemones should be left in the sea.
JMO. Frogspawn would be a better choice.

 

[ebosshard]

Well since I asked for all of your input, and at least one person said what I wanted to hear, I went ahead yesterday and introduced a different species of clown to the tank.

I started with two false percs/nemo's on monday evening. Friday (yesterday) mid-day I added one black/white clown.

I figured since mixing clowns was a bad idea I might counteract that by having three of them in there (something I also have read is a no-no). I also didn't feel like forking out $75 for a black/white clown and having it get devoured by the nemo's (unlikely sight I am sure).

18 hours later we have good news here in Akron. The black/white is nearly identical size to the slightly larger nemo (they are all real little). We had a bit of sniffing around at first, and 30 minutes later the larger nemo took some shots at the black/white. After that it has been shear bliss. They are all buddies, they "slept" in the same current last night and are palling around. (famous last words? I hope not).

I did construct a fake anemone as I am gonna wait a while (weeks/months) before I take the plunge on an anemone. Cut up some 1/4" latex tubing and wrapped the ends around a small piece of 1" pipe. Looks pretty good (but no one taking to it yet).

Will keep you posted on how I do. Not to say that if I get lucky here that this means it would work for all. Remember, I have a 220g tank.

220g (filled with RO/DI H20)
200lbs live rock
75lbs live sand

2 false perc (nemo)
1 black/white perc
5 damsels
1 naso tang
1 bicolor blennie
1 cleaner shrimp
1 small star polyp
6 week old tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Well since I asked for all of your input, and at least one person said what I wanted to hear, I went ahead yesterday and introduced a different species of clown to the tank.

I'm really trying not to flame here, but I think this is a big problem in our hobby. One person, knowledgable or not, says yea, and it's off to the races. Oh by the way, you can have great success keeping a small shark in your tank too. Go for it! (read with sarcasm...I'm not being serious). What it sounds like is that you'd already made up your mind to try the thing with multiple clowns (seriously...congrats on that. Glad to hear they're doing okay!), and you picked through numerous posts advising against it just to find one "yes-man" to give you a warm fuzzy about trying it.

2 false perc (nemo)
1 black/white perc
5 damsels
1 naso tang
1 bicolor blennie
1 cleaner shrimp
1 small star polyp
6 week old tank.

8O 8O 8O 8O Good gravy that's a heavy bioload to go into such a young tank. If your live rock wasn't completely and totally cured, I'd look for problems, especially with the tang, within the next couple weeks. Also, depending on the type of damsels, you'll most likely run into aggression problems between them and the clowns. Most damsel species are extremely territorial and aggressive.
:|

Good luck with your system.

 

[JennM]

Hmmm guess he was going to do it anyway... so we're all wasting our time, but what do we know anyway?

FYI, ebosshard, the problems will not arise now, but rather when one turns female and gets mean. If more than one turns female, you are sure to have a death-match.

I hope for the fishes' sake, they are all right.

You might want to lose the damsels though... but that's another post.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I would get a hospital tank set up. I think you'll be needing it soon.

Louey

 

[Aff]

Just gonna make another suggestion or two here.

First spend 20 bucks and pick up Joyce D. Wilkersons book 'Clownfish'. It may answer some of the questions on keeping the fish and anemones.

Second, try some other corals before purchasing an anemone. Clowns don't need one and will host in other corals (even if they don't have a host they're still happy without one). I'm not saying to never buy one but a reef tanks maturity is measured in years not weeks. There's also been no mention of lighting (which is very important for anemones). A couple of good substitutes that I can personally vouch for are frogspawns (just about any LPS type will do) and ricordea mushrooms. My pair of maroons actually spend as much time at the ricordeas as their bta and the mushrooms are pretty well bulletproof compared to other things.

 

[Anonymous]

Agreed. I wouldn't even think about an anemone in a tank less than a year old under the care of a hobbiest with at least 5 years experience.

 

[ebosshard]

Thanks for the feedback here. As a newcomer to this hobby I am looking for all the help I can get (even when it is conflicting).

Hear you on the anemenoe and will hold off on that for quite some time (sounds like 6mos minimum). I understand the problems that come from having an anemone die.

Do have a small piece of star polyp in there now, will see how that does.

Is a heavy bioload for week seven. Put in 5 damsels in week two and let them go for 4 weeks. 2 clowns for 4-5 days, then the 3 new guys (dotty, tang, black/white perc). I am nervous I got carried away with the wife and kids at the LFS yesterday and am gonna watch levels real closely daily here for the next week with water prepped for changes standing close by.

I know I am pushing it with the clowns. This was not a spur of the moment decision. I have heard strong opinions against this move and will watch them closely. In a 220g I think it is worth a try.

MY QUESTION TODAY IS THIS-IS RETURNING SOME/ALL OF THE DAMSELS AT THIS POINT SOMETHING THAT MUST BE DONE? I am fine with that if that is what is best for the clowns/tang/dottyback to get along from here. I read at least 2 people tell me to return the damsels, can someone confirm that again for me?

Thanks for the words of experience

Eric