Cycling with uncured LR

[Anonymous]

Wow, that's pretty damned high. A suggestion with the skimmer (if you think it'll work, I don't know what type/model you have): drill a hole in the side of the cup, glue an airline coupling into it, and run a length of airline to a larger vessel for overflow. This way, you'll let it be filling a bucket instead of having to babysit the damned thing.

Hee!! You shoot yours out the window? I used to "wash" the stairs with mine, and they'd always comment, "Wow.. why does it smell like the ocean?"

In any event, if at all possible, try to have water for one or two 100% w/c's, that may do the trick.

Btw, I see "sfsu" as part of your nick - San Francisco State University? If so, maybe you can get water from the Steinhart? I have a friend on the wetweb crew who's involved with the Monterey Bay aquarium, maybe he knows whether or not there are any programs similar to what Birch in S.D. does. Then you'd just need sufficient, sealable containers (and a vehicle) to get some quantities of seawater.

 

[Anonymous]

Well ok, the Ammonia is down to about 4.0 now *whew*, of course I'll check again in a few hours to see if it rises again.

 

[Anonymous]

Yah its for San Fran State U. Get the water from Steinhart though? Didn't know that would be possible. Hmmm I know the academy of sciences (same building steinhart is located) moved out for renovations, I assume steinhart is the same (for years too) so that may not be an option. It'd be great if it was, I haven't heard any of the people in the local reef clubs talk about it over at reefcentral though so *shrug*

Thanks for the great tip with the airhose, I tried sticking a big huge hunka hose down the gullet of the thing, and that didn't really help much since the bubbles just weren't getting into it very well (maybe thats the lid of the collection cup is for).

 

[SDMike]

Living in San Diego, I'm blessed with instant access to filtered natural seawater.

I'm curious how do you have filtered seawater? Straight from the ocean? I'd think anything within a hundred miles of LA would be polluted.

Scripps Aquarium has a filtration system at the end of their pier. Anyone with containers can come get as much filtered NSW as they want. Free.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Right.. and there ya go. My mistake about Steinhart, I think it's been easily a decade since I've been there.

With the collection cup of the skimmer, you want the hole to be on the side for the most part, and only in the collection cup, no other part of the skimmer should be touched. Then gravity'll do the rest.

Take a look at this schematic from CPR Aquatic to get an idea of where the waste line should go (it appears theirs is designed into the unit).

 

[Anonymous]

Mike: Grrr you lucky sob... at 17-20 cents a gallon for salt mix you could save a bundle.

seamaiden: Yah I drilled it in the side of the collection cup, no worries Only problem I'm seeing is that the bubbles are filling the collection cup and not popping, so they aren't allowing many more bubble froth in.

In breaking news though, Ammonia is now down to 1.5ppm! Woohoo!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Ugh... bad news this morning, after last night having it down to 1.5ppm, its now back up to around 8... *sigh* Will the stuff just stop dying already! Where's all this nitrifying bacteria I keep hearing about!

 

[Anonymous]

You have the nitrifying bacteria, just not in numbers to convert that ammonia to nitrite (bet you're having some pretty high peaks there, too!). When you get those high nitrite peaks it can actually kill off some of "the other nitrifyers" (sorry, species escapes me, only one cuppa joe into the morn here).

This is the mantra, repeat after me: Water changes. Water changes. Water changes. Water changes. :|

 

[Anonymous]

Yah I'll do the water changes, need to get some more salt though since I went though a 55gallon bag worth in 2 days!

Question is will the bacteria ever grow to sufficient numbers to deal with all the ammonia from the decay of dead stuff? Or do I need to just wait for everything to decay (or try and find it all and clean it off *impossible task*)

Before I put the live rock in (I had about 23lbs before with 120lbs of baserock & 200lbs of sand *dead stuff*) I had a nitrite peak of about 5.0, I assume it was hitting a cycle, after I put the new rocks in the nitrites went to 0.0, this morning when I measured they were about 0.5. I assume that's because the nitrifying bacteria is "eatting" the ammonia and "pooping" nitrites, just as you said though there aren't enough now to deal with everything.

But are you saying that with high nitrites it'll kill off the bacteria that actually eat the ammonia (which makes the nitrites in the first place)??

Also is there any way to speed up the process? Obviously more skimming probably will and that's the first thing on my agenda after I do a water change is to build a bigger skimmer. But what about things lighting? More/less? heating? circulation?

(wonder how white my rock will look when this is over).

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, as I recollect (been a while since I've kept any of my own tanks full of anything but air), and I'd have to look up the exact chemical formulae, but really you've essentially got the idea. It's all an oxidation process. Excess of one can kill the other, again, as I recollect. And see, here's the thing, even if you could rapidly culture sufficient nitrifyers, you'd lose these numbers over time unless you could sustain the "feed".

I almost forgot! Another fellow on the wetwebmedia crew swears by this stuff called "Bio-Spira"; says it's a refrigerated live mix of nitrifyers (nitrosomonas and nitrobacter, and maybe even the nitrospira I've heard tell of.. think it was MickAv8r who posted an article on those). You might want to try to find a bit of this stuff and dose the system with it, see if that helps any.

A tip - during this period, feel free to drop your salinity a bit (though not too much for those incidental sea stars and the like) to both save on the cost of salt and allow a slightly better ability for O2 saturation. That, along with scrubbing, skimming, and w/c's can help you through this process, but it is a tedious one. No doubt about it. I still hold that you'll be most happy with uncured rock vs. cured for several reasons. One of them is that every time the rock is shipped, there will be die-off. That means that by the time it gets to a local shop, it may have been "cured" two or three times. Get a sufficient amount of uncured rock and you'll get the most bang for your buck, and use base/cured rock for "filler" and that life (assuming you meet all other needs) will eventually colonize the rest of available territory.

 

[rwoolley]

This is the mantra, repeat after me: Water changes. Water changes. Water changes. Water changes. :|

I would add to that Patience, Patience, Patience. Now, and for the future. It's the law of the harvest. First you plant, then you cultivate, allow time for evrything to grow, and THEN you reap the harvest. Did I mention patience? :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I think you forgot to mention to have patience. Just in case, I'll mention that it takes lots and lots of patience.

 

[leftovers]

It appears that you have had this rock for all of 4 days now. It will take 7-14 days to completely cure and cycle the tank and rock. It rarely takes 4-6 weeks to cure live rock (like they used to recommend) and even less to cycle a tank when you start with uncurred rock.

Doing partial water changes will make you feel good but IME don't serve much real practical purpose. Sure they reduce ammonia levels and nitrite levels but in terms of reducing/saving life its usually a case of too little/too late. You will however be surprised at the amount of life micro and macro that will survive. Active skimming and good water flow will do better for your rock than just about anything else even running full to partial lights will do wonders for your rock.

I have found from setting up many many tanks that just doing one large 50%-75% water change at the end of two weeks does more than any partial change in between.

Run large ammounts of active carbon if you really cannot stand the smell - this will also help reduce organics and keep the water clear- change daily to really assist.

Test your ammonia every other day - test nitrites daily, test nitrates every 2 or three days... those are the least of your worries.

When you cure live rock in your display tank you will also cycle the tank. Using uncurred rock is the best, safest way to cycle a tank. You will build a huge population of bacteria in a very short time and your tank will quickly reach equilibrium. Sure it stinks but thats what fans are good for.

So relax enjoy and hold your nose.....

 

[Anonymous]

Well good news (atleast for me), I'm planning on doing another water change the other day but the RO unit I have is very slow (something like 18gpd *bleh*) so yesterday evening tested the water, 8.0 ammonia, 3.0 nitrites, this morning I tested the water again, 0.5 ammonia, 5.0 nitrites!

So looks like the bacteria have jumped to sufficient numbers to really smack a blow to that ammonia (also tested afternoon with similar results on ammonia, so it wasn't just a fluke! )

The smell is still there, but I just leave a window open near the tank, probably not the best for the cost of power to heat the tank, but its great to keep the smell down.

So is been about 5days now, and the ammonia is almost nothing, this is making me rather happy, as I'm still filling up some rubbermaids with the RO water to get ready for a good heafty waterchange when the rock is cycled as suggested, since I'm sure my nitrates will then spike like a mother too.

 

[Anonymous]

How's the nitrite/nitrate reading going?

 

[Anonymous]

Well nitrites like I said were 5.0 (of course thats as high as the the drops test kit)m nitrates were a lowly 10. Then I used my stick test (which I have the feeling isn't the most accurate of tests) it says nitrites were between 5-10.0, and Nitrates were 40-80.

 

[SDMike]

The smell is still there, but I just leave a window open near the tank, probably not the best for the cost of power to heat the tank, but its great to keep the smell down.

I had a sewage spill in my house till I pulled everything out of my tank and started doing 100% water changes in the rubbermaid bins I had my LR stored in. It took a week, but finally the smell went away.

My situation may be a little different 'cause I was cramming 66lbs of LR into a 29gal...

Would I do it again? Yup. Next time I'd stick the stuff out in the garage in buckets (+ heaters and PHs) until I was sure it wasn't going to stink up the house. IN FACT, I'm thinking about another batch of LR for my new 40L... I just can't bring myself to tear down the 29 I started with.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Well I'm offically in the home stretch now! Ammonia is 0, Nitrites are down to 0.5, and nitrates are about 20. Should be doing some aquascaping this weekend to move all the rock around, and hope I dont stir up any muck or anything. But it's looking good and could have the new residents moving in as soon as Sunday or Monday.

 

[Bobzarry]

I would hold off on new residents for your tank for at least another couple of weeks. It is not unheard of to have a second though usually smaller cycle. One thing you will have to learn in this hobby is patience. Only thing that usually happens fast in this hobby are bad things (such as death and tank crashes).

If you have zero out on ammonia and nitrite I would start with introducing light at this point. Take your time to enjoy your new rock. with lights on you may start to see life popping its head out. This may help in deciding how you will make your final positioning of rock (yeah right, final :roll: ). take your time to make sure you have ledges for coral's and caves for fish and the like to hide in.

 

[Anonymous]

Hehehe assuming anything beyond the coraline survived the curing process! I've already gone through some initial "plans" for rock setup though, plan on putting the largest piece right in the center (which wont be the highest point on the tank) side corner against the wall will be rock heavy, other side of the tank will have rock in the back corner hopefully with some open. Didn't really think about ledges and caves though since most of rock already is pretty cave like.. hmm maybe I will artificially make some, although gotta worry about rock slides or something then! I heard drilling and then using plastic rods (like from a coathanger) would be a good idea(?). Have a few cave like pieces (ie arches) but all the pretty coraline is on the 'underside' of the arch