New Setup - Need some suggestions

[gpodio]

Hi all,

After many years of freshwater tanks I'm finally setting up my first reef. I have been doing much homework and would appreciate any comments and suggestions regarding the choices I have made:

Tank: Oceanic 40gal stretch hex
Sump: 10 gal
Plumbing: 1" Bulkhead/PVC for drain and 3/4" PVC return from sump (no bulkhead for returns)
Wavemaker: SCWD on sump return
Lighting: 250W 10000K MH + 2x55W CF Actinic 03
Canopy: DIY enclosed canopy, 6.5" tall with 2 fans blowing air into the canopy, rear of canopy is open.
Other items: Skimmer and CA reactor will also be used.

Questions:

- Considering the return pump will be driving the skimmer and SCWD, is the MAG 9.5 sufficient or should I get a 12? Will these create too much current in the sump to grow macro algae?

- Is my lighting an overkill? I don't really want to be limited to what I can keep, I plan to do this once so I prefer to do it right the first time. (I also have a 175W MH fixture if anyone feels this would be a better choice).

- Size for size, what would be the better nitrate consumer for a 10gal sump, DSB or Macro algae? Do many people use both in their sumps?

- I'm not sure on having a DSB in the tank itself, I keep getting mixed opinions on this :?:

I'd appreciate any suggestions anyone may have for me.

Thank you
Giancarlo Podio

 

[Len]

A Mag 9.5 should be adequete, but a Mag 12 isn't out of the question either. With either pump, you'll be fine growing macro in the sump (which if you do, it's really a refugium and not a sump ) FYI: a 10 gallon isn't going to be big enough for both a refugium and a sump, so you'll have to pick. If you use it as a refugium, you'll need another tank to serve as the sump for your skimmer and Ca reactor. Personally, I'd go with the sump first, then a refugium if you have the room. Or you may decide to go with a hang-on protein skimmer along with the refugium.

Your lighting is great and not overkill. You'll be able to keep most anything you want with the 250W.

If you're using the 10 gallon as a refugium, I recommend you put in both a DSB and macro into it. There's no reason why you can or shouldn't use both. A DSB in the refugium is a good compromise to keep it out of the display tank. Personally, I've never had a problem with DSB, but it's good to know you can disconnect it when you need/want.

Hope that helps a bit

 

[gpodio]

Len, thank you for the advice and the welcome.

I know what you mean about the sump/refugium issue, unfortunately the stand won't let me fit anything bigger than a 10gal. I'm not sure on the type of skimmer I will be using however I was kind of hoping to find one that would sit outside the sump rather than in it. Not sure what models are able to do this though. I want to avoid anything hanging on the tank itself if I can. Guess I'm looking to get two for one :roll: I'll see if I can fit another 10 gallon somewhere under the tank....

Regarding the DSB, although some people have adviced me against it, they didn't really give me any reasons why. What are the pros and cons of having a DSB in the tank?

Thanks again for the help

Giancarlo Podio

 

[Baianotang]

One good advise try and get a bigger sump maybe 40 - 60 gallons . The best solution for pollution is dilution.

 

[gpodio]

I wish I could have such a large sump, unfortunately the tank stand won't hold anything bigger than a 10 or 15 tall. This tank will be in a location where everything must be concealed in the stand itself so I'm very limited as far as sump size.

Now, just when I thought I had it all figured out, a friend of mine is suggesting I use the 10 gallon as a refugium with miracle mud and caulerpa. He said that for a small tank like mine, this should be enough without requiring a skimmer. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Anonymous]

40-60gal sump for a 40gal aquarium? sorry that doesnt sound right to me...IMHO (in my humble opinion) id go 50% tank volume for the sump or fuge..your looking at 20 gal if you have room of course...10 will probably do for just a sump...im in the process now of making a fuge for my 20...its a ten gallon AGA...HTH

 

[Anonymous]

BTW i perfer skimming, several people on here dont .... i think it will be a matter of opinion but maybe Len can steer you in a better direction than i can....

 

[brandonberry]

I just bought a used Berlin hang on and added the turbo upgrade kit (pump & fittings) for my 20 gallon sump. It should work fine with a ten gallon also. I'd reccomend doing this rather than using the same pump for the skimmer and return. I haven't quite figured out how you plan to do that. Are you adding some kind of "T" to the line coming from the pump? If you try to run it through the skimmer and up to your tank, you will get a flood unless the skimmer is set above the water level of your main tank. Personally, I prefer to have my water going down the overflow and hitting the skimmer before anything else, then passing through the media, refugium, etc. This way you collect the proteins before the bacteria have a chance to convert them to nitrates. I'm sure this, like everything else in this hobby would be different depending on who you ask.

 

[gpodio]

Yes, my original idea had a T on the return line with individual flow valves to adjust flow rate through the skimmer and up to the tank. The skimmer would then flow back into the sump.

Regarding "skimming" before "sumping" (that's newbie talk ), I know very little about skimmers and their efficiency, but I would imagine their efficiency is far below 100%, if so then it really shouldn't matter who does what first, right? I mean, if the skimmer is removing say 10% of proteins every time the same water flows through it, the other 90% are still going through the sump prior to being re-circulated through the skimmer again. Nitrifying bacteria as far as I know also has very low efficieny rates. Now that I think about it though, is a skimmer really in direct competition with nitrifying bacteria? I mean, will bacteria compete with the skimmer for proteins or wait until those proteins are broken down? I figured (or should I say guessed) that the skimmer is there to remove proteins before they break down and therefore become available to nitrifying bacteria.

Anyway, if I can fit a hangon skimmer to the 10 gallon sump then I shouldn't have any problems using the mud and the skimmer together. I was excluding hang on skimmers but didn't think about hanging them off the sump :roll:

So back to the mud (MM), I read the threads in the archives, coming from a backgrownd of FW plants, I can certainly see how the MM could assist in growing macro algae and plants. There is much talk about the claims of it's origin and why it's priced so high, I guess after investing so much in this setup, I don't mind spending another $100 on the mud, even though I have plenty of laterite and flourite lying around the house. I'm too chicken to risk it at this stage :?

Has anyone tried MM alone without growing any macro algae? Did it help any or did people conclude that it's sole purpose is aiding the growth of macro algae?

The idea of using macro algae as the only source of nutrient export interests me a great deal as this is something I can relate to very easily from my FW experiences.

Sorry for rambling on... I appreciate all the suggestions, keep 'em coming!

 

[Dinoflorist]

Well, I think with a ten gallon sump, you would HAVE to have a hang on skimmer. I say this because I have been unable to find ANY skimmers that are able to fit inside a ten gallon tank. Even my 20 gallon with a deep sand bed doesn't have space for my protien skimmer.

 

[J.Howard]

Red Sea makes a small (3-4" diameter) "Berlin style" in sump skimmer, but it's air powered. Not a bad thing, just gotta have the pump and change air diffuser blocks regularly. I saw it at Petco ( I know, I know, I was shopping for dog food...honest) for around $40. I think CPR Aquatic makes an all in one fuge/sump/skimmer, but not sure on sizes avail. Hope this helps.

 

[Dinoflorist]

I saw that too, but it looked like it was also too tall. I actually got a Visi-JET PS from there for only 12 dollars on clearance. It is venturi style so its powered, but the collection cup just sits on there...what if you knocked it off? Gross. Anyway, I haven't been able to use it because its too tall.

 

[gpodio]

Dinoflorist, would it fit on a 10 gallon sump by any chance?

I have to go look at some of these small units and find one that will fit such a small tank. Seeing I'm at the setup stage, I might place some foam sheets under the sump to raise it a little, might give me more room for a hang-on skimmer.

Regarding the miracle mud and macro, when should I be adding it to the refugium, right away or after cycling?

Thanks again for all the help
Giancarlo

 

[ricky1414]

With either pump, you'll be fine growing macro in the sump (which if you do, it's really a refugium and not a sump )

Len, not to be a jerk, but wouldn't that actually be an "algae scrubber," and not a refugium? :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Isnt that kinda the same thing..Algae Scrubber/refugium? are they not Synonamous names?

 

[J.Howard]

I like the name given by qwiksilver in this forum. He called it a FUMP...maybe you guys have heard this one before, but I thought it was kinda cool. I may be wrong on this one, but doesn't an algae scrubber use a mat type algae like Ulva macroalgae as the main filter and others as supplment? I may be way off on this one, but I'm sure I read about it somewhere. Not that I disagree w/anybody, whatever algae you use I guess it's technically a scrubber too.