2nd opinions on fish, please?

[AK_Dude]

I have one more question I'd like to ask (well...for now, anyways )

My tank is still cycling, so it's a bit early to add fish, but I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations on the following list of fish I am considering once cycled (and yes, these will be added *slowly* over the next six to twelve months)

3 Banggai Cardinalfish
3-5 green or black axil chromis
1 royal gramma
1, maybe 2 clowns (either amphiprion ocellaris or amphiprion percula)
1 of either a Dusky Angel, Coral Beauty Angel or Flame Angel

I also rather like the Blotched Foxface Rabbitfish (yes, I know the spines are venomous), but think he might be too large for this tank when grown.

Inverts currently in the tank include mushrooms, porites, a trio of clams, several feather duster worms, a hermit crab (red legs, but I don't know hermits well enough to identify the exact species)--these were all hitchhikers on the l.r. I have also purchased a pair of wurdemanii shrimp and 5 snails, will probably add a cleaner shrimp or two and a red brittle star (much later).

Do these fish seem reasonable and appropriate in a tank that will probably contain a few of the hardier corals (like the shrooms), and will they coexist well? Does the stocking look reasonable for my tank and filtration (specs below) or is it a little heavy? Is there anything else I should consider adding? If I were to introduce the fish in the order listed above, would that work, or is there another order that would work better?

Here's my setup:

* 85 gallon tank that I'm just starting to put together, bought used
* Lifegard Reefkeeper canister setup (mechanical cartridge, chemical cartridge and heater cartridge)
* a pair of cheaper protein skimmers because they were the only thing I could find that would work in my tank (it's acrylic and has a top with two cutouts for maintenance, so HOT won't work without extensive mods, and it doesn't--yet--have a sump).

* 30lbs of living rock (more to come, as finances allow
* 100lbs of Carib-Sea aragonite
* 2lbs of premium live sand from the LFS.

TIA for the suggestions!

--Mike

 

[CC-Star]

After reading a kazillion articles on bangaii cardinals... it is not recommended to add an odd number ...

They should be kept singly, or in a pair. If not the males will attact each other and you will end up with a battered dead fishy. As they suggest do a search on Bangaii Cardinals and you will find info on them, recommending what I just said.

 

[AK_Dude]

Hmmm...I hadn't seen that, yet. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[ChrisRD]

IMO your choice of fish is fine. I agree with getting just a pair of cardinals. I doubt the stocking order will matter much (something like what you showed should be fine).

The Centropyge sp. angels you listed are generally considered hit-or-miss as far as being reef safe. FWIW, C. Argi (Cherub Angel) and some of its close relatives are generally considered less risky in that regard although they can be aggressive and it would best to add as the last fish.

I tend to agree about the size of rabbitfish. If you're looking for a herbivorous fish, there are some species of tangs that would do well in tank that size like a Kole's, Chevron, Yellow, etc.

HTH

 

[AK_Dude]

If you're looking for a herbivorous fish, there are some species of tangs that would do well in tank that size like a Kole's, Chevron, Yellow, etc.

I've read that some of the tangs can be rather territorial though. Would they coexist with more peaceful fish like the cardinalfish?

 

[ChrisRD]

By reputation the Kole's and the Chevron are pretty mild mannered. Yellows can be somewhat aggressive but if you put the tang in as one of the last fish, you'll probably be OK.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know crap about the Cardinals. Add the Angel last and get 2 Clowns of the same species. ....I would not mix them. They can be very agressive. THEY ARE DAMSELS.I just added a Maroon Clown to my 100 gallon Fish/Liverock/Creepy Crawly Tank. I have had a Percula in there for more than a year. The Percula is harassing the marooon but not fin nipping. If this does not stop soon I will move one of them. I have had a Royal Gramma in this tank too and he/she is doing great. However they need places to hide.

 

[blastermqn]

Call it just a personal preference, but I can barely tell the difference between cardinalfish and fresh water black tetras or rosy barbs. I never quite got the popularity of this species. Please look at flame gobies in your considerations for a schooling fish that's hardy, although they both just kind of sit there and wait to be fed.

Most chromis are in my opinion not good for much more than cycling a tank or giving triggers something to chase around, but, they are pretty. Good luck removing them though if you don't want them.

Now clowns and angels are more my kind of fish - then again I've got a tame marine betta in my 30 gal that's almost trained to take food out of my hand.

Clowns can be added early, although you'll need to be carefull about getting two. Better if they come matched from the fish store before hand.

Angels, even dwarfs, should not be added to a tank until it's mature and as the last fish - my advice is 5-6months from when it's done cycling. Also stick to specimens that are eating well at the fish store after transportation and have settled down. I've had all kinds, and the Cherub is an exellent starter and quite reef safe. I still like the coral beauty the best (seems less finicky and more consistent than flames or potters), and find it quite well behaved in most reefs. Won't take crap from other fish though.

 

[AK_Dude]

Angels, even dwarfs, should not be added to a tank until it's mature and as the last fish - my advice is 5-6months from when it's done cycling.

That was my plan I'm thinking a rate of 1 or 2 fish per month, to keep from overloading the bio filtration (maybe all or most of the chromis at once, since they are so small), and no angels until the tank is fully cycled and stable.

...the Cherub is an exellent starter and quite reef safe. I still like the coral beauty the best (seems less finicky and more consistent than flames or potters), and find it quite well behaved in most reefs.

I've considered the cherub, but I just really like the flame, dusky and coral beauty angels. Thanks for the advice on the coral beauty--that's the kind of info I was looking for. The cool thing is, at least at the LFS here, it's a lot less expensive than the flame angel.

 

[blastermqn]

Coral Beauties are a bit more hardy than Flames, although they can be more aggresive.

Angels can be among the most hardiest of all tank inhabitants, but always be sure to buy one that's eating well at the fish store, and has been there for a week or two at least. They are very, VERY senstive to rough transportation. Immature salt tanks are not a good combination with angels.

What I like about angels is unlike clowns and many others, is they are constantly active.

 

[Jolieve]

More reading on the dwarf angels will reward you with the info that the majority of centropyge angels are only reef safe on a semi-regular basis. If you really want a dwarf angel, look into the genicanthus dwarves. I'd really recommend lamarck's. Inexpensive, beautiful fish, that will not bother your corals down the road because these fish are planktivores. They're also relatively hardy compared to other genicanthus species and are much easier to come by than the bellus, swallowtails or watanabe.

As far as the comments on tangs... go with the gold. Bright gold in color (pale yellow tangs are not healthy, so skip them), yellow tangs are by far and away the most striking fish I've seen besides large angels. Chevron tangs are prohibitively expensive (last time I checked, 200+ dollars a fish), and the kole is not as hardy. If you decide to add a tang, definitely add the yellow last. But, you'll be glad you did. That will be the fish that everyone stops to look at when they see your tank.

Good luck,
J.

 

[Anonymous]

Since you are going with fish much larger than i am acustomed to, i will leave the comments to the members with these larger fish....however maybe ditching your canister filter and investing in a good protein skimmer..Chromis seem to be peaceful fish vs other damsels...I agree with Bangbang on clowns..add them together and of the same species...I tried to put a percula/ocellaris in with my pair of clarks and they had a field day with the perk/ocellaris. To the point the Perk/ocellaris jumped out of the tank (he know lives with my mantis shrimp)...and as for Centropyge species, I want one but the simple fact that they're hit or miss coral consumers deters me from keeping one..

 

[Jolieve]

I'd have to say, that as far as reefkeepers go, I am the epitome of lazy next to ToeCutter. I don't want to have to do major clean up chores that involve the tank, except on a monthly basis.

Maintaining a cannister filter can be more problems than it's worth because you need to take it off and clean it once a week to make sure it runs well. If you don't want that kind of work, and the work of making those cheap skimmers run at optimum levels for your system... I'd recommend selling off that equipment and replacing it with a sump.

It's something to think about. Over the long term, the amount of money and time you are going to invest in your animals is going to outweigh the investment you've put into your equipment, even if you buy top of the line gear. The question for you is weather you want that equipment to do the job for you, or just be enough to get you by. Will you really trust the lives of your animals to the things that just get you by?

Decision is yours, just offering my input.
J.

 

[AK_Dude]

Maintaining a cannister filter can be more problems than it's worth because you need to take it off and clean it once a week to make sure it runs well. If you don't want that kind of work, and the work of making those cheap skimmers run at optimum levels for your system... I'd recommend selling off that equipment and replacing it with a sump...

It's in the works. I'm engineering the upgrades, trying to figure out how to plumb the sump so that a power failure won't leave me with an empty fish tank and a flooded living room, etc. On the other hand, I have a wife who needs to see a return on the tank (that is, something besides a large, empty box in the middle of the living room with nothing in it), or funds to stock and maintain the aquarium goes away :lol: so I decided to get the tank started, and upgrade along the way, as money allows. So to that end, I have left the canister filter in place (cleaning it isn't that bad, at least so far), and installed the only protein skimmers I could find that would work with the existing set-up.

Out of curiosity, how large does the sump need to be to service an 85g tank? I'm actually considering making it more of a refugium type, with algae to scrub the water. Suggestions on how to build this, and with what to stock it?

Thanks once again!

--Mike

 

[Jolieve]

It doesn't need to be all that large. 15-20 gallons should serve you well. I thought about having a sump/fuge setup on my system as well, couldn't figure out how to make it work in a rubbermaid tub so I abandoned the idea.

J.

 

[HClH2OFish]

On angels --- Centropyge vroliki Not as $$ as other angels and IMHO just as beautiful. Gorgeous electric blue edging on fins and really cool orange ring around eye (yellow? dunno..i'm colorblind)

Mine was a trade at my LFS and he was already eating really well. Comes right up to the glass to watch you. He's doing really great in my tank..doesn't bug my cinnamon clown and likes getting cleaned by my coral banded. Feeding time and he eats right outta my hand

Funny thing with my guy is that he sleeps in a little cave, lying down on his side! Freaked me out first time I saw that... 8O

 

[AK_Dude]

Well, I've started putting fish in the tank now: started with four green chromis. One wasn't eating, and was avoiding the other three, so I put him back in the Q/T. He's starting to eat now, and I'm hoping can go back in the display tank shortly.

I put two Banggai Cardinals in the Q/T before I had to put the fourth chromis in, but they spiked ammonia and nitrite (kinda surprised; I had been cycling the tank with food for several weeks before I added any fish, and I had put a small live rock in the tank at the same time as the food). Anyways, nitrite killed one of the Banngai's after a little over a week in quarantine so I quickly put the survivor in the display tank. Because of the NH3/NO2 levels, I was changing 1/4 to 1/2 the water in the Q/T on a daily basis with water from my display tank, and still couldn't keep the levels down. I wanted to have a pair, so I purchased a third Banggai from the LFS that they had had in their tanks for a while and added him straight to the display tank (I know, bad practice, but I didn't want the one survivor to be bullied by the chromis); he was dead the next morning, and I haven't seen the other Banggai lately, either. LFS and I suspect it was the chromis--that has me worried about adding anyone else.

I'm hoping that as I add more fish with approximately the same level of aggression as the chromis (clowns, royal gramma, etc.) the number of fish in the tank will prevent any one bully or any one victim from emerging? Or am I just fooling myself?

Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions--I'd prefer not to kill any more fish.

Thanks!

--Mike