My familly are getting a reef tank soon and my dad asked me (he is really bad at computers) to ask this question can a reverse flow filter (just the plastic slits no filter media) stop anaerobic conditions causing hydrogen sulphide erupting and poisoning our future tank.
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can a reverse flow can stop hydrogen sulphide
- Thread starter silent1
- Start date
Hi Silent, and :welcome:
It sounds like you're referring to an undergravel filter. Although reverse-flow was a bit better technique than the traditional downward flow setup, undergravel filters are not used by most modern reefkeepers.
These days the most common and generally preferred method is using some quality live rock and/or live sand along with a good protein skimmer. That should provide all the filtration you need. Some folks also like to run a quality activated carbon as well (periodically or continously).
It sounds like you're referring to an undergravel filter. Although reverse-flow was a bit better technique than the traditional downward flow setup, undergravel filters are not used by most modern reefkeepers.
These days the most common and generally preferred method is using some quality live rock and/or live sand along with a good protein skimmer. That should provide all the filtration you need. Some folks also like to run a quality activated carbon as well (periodically or continously).
BTW, check out our library for some recommended books to get you started on the right track.
Also, check out our beginner's guide
HTH
Also, check out our beginner's guide
HTH
what i was talking about is the entire cleaning setup. trickle filter skimmer etc but when the water is pumped back up to the tank forced through a reverse flow undergravel filter so there is no stagnant pockets of water and to stop anaerobic conditions
damn punctuation must love me
damn punctuation must love me
Trickle filters and undergravel filters are not used by the majority of modern reefkeepers, and with good reason. IMO/IME you'll have the easiest time maintaining the good water quality required by sensitive reef invertebrates/corals by using the live rock + protein skimming method for you filtration that is predominantly used today.
Check out the links in my previous post and get yourself a good starter book like "Natural Reef Aquariums" by John Tullock (that's one that appears in our recommended reading list).
HTH
Check out the links in my previous post and get yourself a good starter book like "Natural Reef Aquariums" by John Tullock (that's one that appears in our recommended reading list).
HTH
The only time there MIGHT be any stagnant or anerobic conditions, is in a Deep Sand Bed, and if that is what you are using, you WANT those anerobic areas to help reduce nitrates into nitrogen gas...If you go with a bare bottom tank, there will be no anerobic area, and if you are going to keep a reef tank, you won't want to use a trickle filter, as the bioballs, while being very effective in tha waste/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate part of the nitrification cycle, stop at creating nitrates, and do NOTHING to break down the nitrates, which are very bad for most corals. The majority of hobbyists use some form of sand bed, and lots of live rock as their primary filter system, and use a very efficient protein skimmer to help remove some of the pollution in the tank...
I'd strongly suggest some serious reading before you spend any $$$ setting a tank up, to avoid getting things that won't work for you.
Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Bob Fenner, new Marine Aquarium by Paletta, and many more good books are available to help you do things right...
I'd strongly suggest some serious reading before you spend any $$$ setting a tank up, to avoid getting things that won't work for you.
Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Bob Fenner, new Marine Aquarium by Paletta, and many more good books are available to help you do things right...
Damn i need to rethink lots of planning now.
Trickle filters not important? according to my book trickle filters are some of the best things possible to have. but surely with the trickle filter, skimmer and a deep sandbed and live rock would make a great system would it? anyway my dad is planning to buy a reef tank on e-bay lazy oaf.
Trickle filters not important? according to my book trickle filters are some of the best things possible to have. but surely with the trickle filter, skimmer and a deep sandbed and live rock would make a great system would it? anyway my dad is planning to buy a reef tank on e-bay lazy oaf.
Trickle filters were the rage about 10 years ago. They aren't now because they really end up being a place for detritus to collect and rot. Fine for a fish only system, but no good for a reef.
If your dad buys one, just remove the media from the trickle chamber.
What book do you have?
If your dad buys one, just remove the media from the trickle chamber.
What book do you have?
the book is called the interpet questions & answers manuel of The marine aquarium by nick dakin. the book only tells us of 4 types of filtration undergravel, trickle, canister and denitrification (spel). it does have a pagee on live rock but it says nothing of it being a good filtration method it just says its an easy way of getting critters naturally into a tank.
my dad just asked what sort of system is best and to add concrete info.
im also trying to convince him to get more books
my dad just asked what sort of system is best and to add concrete info.
im also trying to convince him to get more books
Do keep in mind that Interpet is an aquarium supply company, and their main goal is to sell you their products. The main goal of the people on the forums is to help you succeed, regardless of whose products you buy, although we will try to steer you away from the stuff we know is not worth spending your hard earned money on.
silent1":201ztnz7 said:My familly are getting a reef tank soon and my dad asked me (he is really bad at computers) to ask this question can a reverse flow filter (just the plastic slits no filter media) stop anaerobic conditions causing hydrogen sulphide erupting and poisoning our future tank.
reverse flow or forward flow both prevent sulfides by switching the substrait from an anaerobic to an aerobic operation.
With or without a UGF, the best method of preventing any anaerobic action is to establish plant life to consume the nitrAtes. In that way anaerobic bacteria is not allowed to form and completely unnecessary.
You also might want to consider an external filter such as a fluidized bed type filter. In that way the media is still oxygenated and can also be changed out without tearing down the entire system.
All that said, I ran a UGF forward flow for 6 years in a simple 10g. Didn't have any problems. And also did not have to ever tear it down. My current 55g with play sand and thriving plant life, is doing excellent also. So I guess both work. But in both I recommend a thriving plant growth.
Bob
beaslbob":3u2dwlul said:With or without a UGF, the best method of preventing any anaerobic action is to establish plant life to consume the nitrAtes. In that way anaerobic bacteria is not allowed to form and completely unnecessary.
Anaerobic conditions and bacteria is naturally found in live rock and live sand. Despite your persistent false assertions, it's not necessary to employ algae filters to have a reef tank with undetectable levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
beaslbob":3u2dwlul said:You also might want to consider an external filter such as a fluidized bed type filter. In that way the media is still oxygenated and can also be changed out without tearing down the entire system.
A fluidized bed filter is a poor choice for a reef tank and is completely unecessary.
beaslbob":3u2dwlul said:All that said, I ran a UGF forward flow for 6 years in a simple 10g. Didn't have any problems.
And this tank was not a reef tank, correct Bob?
As a NRF moderator, it is my responsibility to point out the following:
In theory. In reality, UGF have a tendency to 'channel' meaning the water only flows through areas of least resistance, so it is probable for only a small percentage of your substrate to actually have flow through it while the rest is has no flow and is 'anaerobic'
This is bob's personal idea and shows a misgeneralization about anaerobic bacteria and anaerobic zones. I don't think anyone else on this board agrees with him on this. If you have a planted sand bed you will still have anaerobic conditions in the substrate.
Again, bob is pretty much the only person on the board to recommend this. Pretty much everyone else recommends against a fluidized bed filter on a reef for very good reasons.
What bob fails to mention in these posts is that it was a fish only system and that he has only been keeping a reef for a year. After several of these threads with bob we only have one picture of his reef tank, and it does not look 'excellent', and it seems from previous discussions that he only has one coral in his tank. Requests for current photos have gone unanswered.
I believe that Chris and I both agree that bobs 'methods' are interesting, but have no place in the new reefers forum because they are confusing, because he is the only one using them, because he shows misunderstandings of biological processes, and because we only have his word that his reef is doing well.
I feel terrible writing all of this because I think he is a good guy trying to help, but his 'methods' have been shown by the vast majority of reefers to be unhelpful, or downright hurtful for new reefers and I would be remiss as a moderator for not pointing this out.
----
silent1,
Hydrogen sulphide erupting and poisoning a tank is an incredibly rare occurrence. I strongly recommend you throw the book you have away and get a more respected one. Debleek and Sprung's 'The Reef Aquarium Volume One' is my fav. Instead of buying a book, you can also ask local reefers if you can borrow their books.
beaslbob":1wtuipeo said:reverse flow or forward flow both prevent sulfides by switching the substrait from an anaerobic to an aerobic operation.
In theory. In reality, UGF have a tendency to 'channel' meaning the water only flows through areas of least resistance, so it is probable for only a small percentage of your substrate to actually have flow through it while the rest is has no flow and is 'anaerobic'
With or without a UGF, the best method of preventing any anaerobic action is to establish plant life to consume the nitrAtes. In that way anaerobic bacteria is not allowed to form and completely unnecessary.
This is bob's personal idea and shows a misgeneralization about anaerobic bacteria and anaerobic zones. I don't think anyone else on this board agrees with him on this. If you have a planted sand bed you will still have anaerobic conditions in the substrate.
You also might want to consider an external filter such as a fluidized bed type filter. In that way the media is still oxygenated and can also be changed out without tearing down the entire system.
Again, bob is pretty much the only person on the board to recommend this. Pretty much everyone else recommends against a fluidized bed filter on a reef for very good reasons.
All that said, I ran a UGF forward flow for 6 years in a simple 10g. Didn't have any problems. And also did not have to ever tear it down. My current 55g with play sand and thriving plant life, is doing excellent also. So I guess both work. But in both I recommend a thriving plant growth.
What bob fails to mention in these posts is that it was a fish only system and that he has only been keeping a reef for a year. After several of these threads with bob we only have one picture of his reef tank, and it does not look 'excellent', and it seems from previous discussions that he only has one coral in his tank. Requests for current photos have gone unanswered.
I believe that Chris and I both agree that bobs 'methods' are interesting, but have no place in the new reefers forum because they are confusing, because he is the only one using them, because he shows misunderstandings of biological processes, and because we only have his word that his reef is doing well.
I feel terrible writing all of this because I think he is a good guy trying to help, but his 'methods' have been shown by the vast majority of reefers to be unhelpful, or downright hurtful for new reefers and I would be remiss as a moderator for not pointing this out.
----
silent1,
Hydrogen sulphide erupting and poisoning a tank is an incredibly rare occurrence. I strongly recommend you throw the book you have away and get a more respected one. Debleek and Sprung's 'The Reef Aquarium Volume One' is my fav. Instead of buying a book, you can also ask local reefers if you can borrow their books.
thanks all of ya.
I have shown my dad this topic and he is rethinking the tank now hopefully he would get some new books bringing us ever closer to our 1st marine tank (dad has 20+ yrs on tropical).
We may post some more plans and dumb questions in the future so look out for us. mkay
Thanks
I have shown my dad this topic and he is rethinking the tank now hopefully he would get some new books bringing us ever closer to our 1st marine tank (dad has 20+ yrs on tropical).
We may post some more plans and dumb questions in the future so look out for us. mkay
Thanks
silent1":h4vhbkmm said:thanks all of ya.
I have shown my dad this topic and he is rethinking the tank now hopefully he would get some new books bringing us ever closer to our 1st marine tank (dad has 20+ yrs on tropical).
We may post some more plans and dumb questions in the future so look out for us. mkay
Thanks
Fantastic! Its really not all that hard to do, just a little confusing at first. Please do let us know how we can help.
RR
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