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supergiantrobot

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I am seeing some "problems" and I wonder if the sum of them points to some fundamental issue in my tank. Here goes...

90 G display, 10 G fuge, 15 sump. Tank has two blue-green chromises, a lawnmower blenny, and 110 lbs of live rock. I have green star polyps and your basic mushrooms. Water parameters have traditionally been:

pH 8.2-8.5; Salinity 1.025-1.026; Nitrates 5 or lower (5 up until recently, now more like 1); Ammonia and Nitrites and Phosphate 0. KH was 11.5, now down to 9.1.

1. I had been dosing kalk from a kalk reactor from Oct 21 to Nov 5. But due to a calcium reading of more than 500, I removed the kalk. (Calcium was always that high even without kalk!)

2. I added a bunch of new snails on Oct 26. Nassarius, trochus, ceriths, and astreas.

3. The fuge has a number of macroalgaes, which were just taking off! Great growth and color.

4. On 11/5, I added toadstool leather coral and purple montipora. The next day, the montipora turned red(?) and the toadstool began to close. A week later, both were dead.

5. I have also lost a number of snails, including all the turbos, my margarites, many ceriths. On the other hand, the nassarius are spawning, leaving white eggs everywhere on the glass. Some young nassarius have even made it. (Now, the snails did an amazing job. It could be they simply ate themselves to death, in the sense that after the binge of cleaning diatom from everywhere, there were too many for too few resources. There were 25 ceriths, 12 astreas, 5 trochus, 5 turbos, 2 margarites, and 25 red-legged hermits by the end of October.)

6. My macroalgaes are falling apart. Losing color, growth has stopped. The water in the fuge has a more smelly smell than before, too. Usually it smells like ocean, but this is more pungent.

7. Water changes have been 15-20% per week, matching salinity and temperature.

8. My star polyps remain closed and part of the mat no longer opens at all. There's just algae growing on part of the mat.

9. I recently upped my MH time from 5 hours to 8. I run two 250W 10K MHs, and two VHO blue actinics. Actinics are on about 10 hours The fuge has its own 65 W LOA flourescent flood light and a 15 W reptile "daylight" bulb. (The latter bulb helps the mangroves.)

I am stumped. I do not know if all of this is related or just part of the maturing process as nutrients move from one part of the system to another, say. The dying off of the macroalgae is weird. The star polyps were beautiful, but they do not open anymore (the mat was probably 6x4 at least.)

The fish seem great and the mushrooms seem OK, too. I have lots of amphipods growing in the fuge and have seen some in the display, too.

I don't get it. What's up with the macroalgae and the polyps?

Let me know if I can provide more information...
 

supergiantrobot

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I try to keep a (somewhat detailed) log of aquarium changes...

Date: 10/09/04
Note: Added one Green Chromis, twelve Astrea snails, and six Scarlet hermit crabs
Date: 10/10/04
Note: Died: Three Scarlet hermit crabs
Date: 10/10/04
Note: Added 100 grams of Seachem spherical activated carbon to sump
Date: 10/10/04
Note: Livestock: Dead turbo snail; moved other turbos to 'fuge. No movement.
Date: 10/15/04
Note: Livestock: Added five Astrea snails; Mangrove leaves appearing
Date: 10/16/04
Note: Ordered... 25 Hermits : 20.00, 12 Nassarius : 10.00, 25 Cerniths : 20.00, 12 Astreas :
10.00 from Coral Dynamics
Date: 10/16/04
Note: Cleaned: Protein skimmer
Date: 10/17/04
Note: Livestock: Added seven Mexican Turbo snails, five trochus snails, and one cerith
Date: 10/17/04
Note: Livestock: Added: fourteen pounds of Marshall Island live rock to display
Date: 10/17/04
Note: Livestock: Added three forms of macroalgae to refugium
Date: 10/21/04
Note: pH up to 8.5 after a full day of dosing
Date: 10/21/04
Note: Equipment: Started dosing with kalkwasser reactor; before, pH seems to be holding at 8.2
Date: 10/21/04
Note: Ordered: "Scratch and dent" chiller, two magnetic feeding clips
Date: 10/21/04
Note: Equipment: Switched to new RO container; working out kinks
Date: 10/22/04
Note: Added: Seven red-legged hermits to display
Date: 10/22/04
Note: Added: Star-polyp and mushroom live rock
Date: 10/25/04
Note: Equipment: Upped MH time to two hours per day
Date: 10/25/04
Note: Changed: Switched mixer to 8.30 am only, for one minute of mixing
Date: 10/26/04
Note: Ordered: Eheim 1250 pump; a variety of flake and dried foods from Premium Aquatics
Date: 10/26/04
Note: Added: 25 red-legged hermit crabs; 12 nassarius snails; 25 cernith snails; and 12
astreas
Date: 10/26/04
Note: Equipment: Received chiller
Date: 10/27/04
Note: Hitchhiker: Saw a brown, fuzzy crab on mushroom rock at midnight
Date: 10/28/04
Note: Equipment: Put plankton juice in fridge; replace in six months
Date: 10/28/04
Note: Equipment: Upped MH to three hours per day
Date: 10/29/04
Note: Livestock: Hitchhiker: Saw a long bristle worm(?)
Date: 11/01/04
Note: Conditions: Phosphate: 0
Date: 11/01/04
Note: Equipment: Chiller working, set to 77
Date: 11/04/04
Note: Equipment: Cleaned skimmer and added a PVC silo to skimmer output
Date: 11/05/04
Note: Equipment: Removed kalk from reactor
Date: 11/05/04
Note: Livestock: Added green mushroom rock; purple montipora digitata fragment; pink
leather coral
Date: 11/07/04
Note: Checked turbos to see if they were alive. Alive, but dormant.
Date: 11/07/04
Note: Equipment: upped temperature of heater to 79; upped temperature of chiller to 81
Date: 11/08/04
Note: According to wade, the leather coral will recover in some number of days
Date: 11/10/04
Note: Equipment: Cleaned skimmer cup
Date: 11/10/04
Note: Livestock: Purple montipora shed all pigment and died.
Date: 11/10/04
Note: Equipment: Changed carbon in Bag A (on right)
Date: 11/10/04
Note: Equipment: Ordered a refractometer; some suspect salinity off badly
Date: 11/11/04
Note: Food: Received two new bottles of DT's Phytoplankton
Date: 11/11/04
Note: Equipment: Received refractometer. Salinity is 1.025
Date: 11/11/04
Note: Livestock: Saw three nassarius babies
Date: 11/14/04
Note: Livestock: Continue to lose turbos and ceriths, threw away four of the latter; losing trochus as well
Date: 11/15/04
Note: Equipment: Upped MH time to eight hours
Date: 11/17/04
Note: Livestock: Star polyps remain closed after two days. Unknown cause.
 
A

Anonymous

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Hey SGR, just some shots in the dark since all of the listed perams sound fine. Are you dosing Iodine? The macro algae and softies use quite a bit of it and it is depleated rather quickly. Could some copper have gotten in your tank? Ie new/old h2o lines, distilled h2o, bag h2o from lfs. Could the new corals have been dyed? I think you are right about some of the snails starving, turboes etc. eat only diatomes, their radula is composed of silica and iron oxides. They may move other algae around but are searching for diatomes. They are very sensitive to new water conditions and should be "dripped" in slowly. Good luck. Andy
 

Juck

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What kind of macros do you have in the fuge? & Which ones are failing?

What temp are you running? What kind of skimmer are you using?

What's the lighting cycle on the fuge?
 

supergiantrobot

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I do not dose iodine. I certainly could try that.

I don't think copper could have gotten in.

However, I did add some metal gardening hose equipment recently to attach the chiller. I also have some other metal plumbing components like a check valve and hose attachments before the water goes through the RO/DI. Is it possible that the plumbing fittings for the chiller are leaching into the water? Besides that metal fitting for the chiller (a hose barb and adapted), the rest of my plumbing is plastic. The chiller chamber is titanium.
 
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Anonymous

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The chiller should be fine I would think, as should, the lines before your ro/di unit. Garden hose fittings might be galv.? Prob. not a problem but I do not think I would use it. I would start with a good Iodine sup. The macro and soft corals need it. Water changes add some but it does not last long. What about the pink coral and the other changing color - some disrept. sellers dye them, most die some just fade back to orig. color. Andy
 

supergiantrobot

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Juck":3nezf8f5 said:
What kind of macros do you have in the fuge? & Which ones are failing?

What temp are you running? What kind of skimmer are you using?

What's the lighting cycle on the fuge?

I have three kinds. Caulerpa prolifera, Chaetomorpha, and Red Grape Caulerpa. The prolifera was growing great, but now its leaves are beginning to deteriorate. The Chaetomorpha was also growing fast and very tightly, but then I began to notice more and more loose strands and less of a green color. The Red Grape Caulerpa "leaves" are becoming transparent.

Temperature ranges between 77 in the morning to 80 by the end of the day. Normal operating temperature is 78 most of the day.

The flood light on the fuge is on for 12 hours. The smaller 15W daylight bulb is on all of the time.

I have a Pro Clear Aquatic Systems 250 skimmer.
 
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Anonymous

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Sounds very much like the macros went sexual. What kind of macros and what is the lighting cycle of the 'fuge?

How well is the skimmer skimming?

How did you acclimate the new corals?


It doesn't sound like an iodine problem. I wouldn't add iodine unless you test for it - if you over dose it, you've got problems.

The 3 hour jump in MH may have something to do with the GSP issues.
 

Juck

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My money is on the macros. First off I'd grab the Caulerpas and get them out of there,,, when they start to disintegrate they can turn to mush and be difficult to remove. Whether they have gone sexual or are failing for another reason, they are probably dumping cack into the water.

Chaeto is practically indestructable,, I'd leave it,, it should recover. Unless you're in-love with the idea of caulerpa I wouldn't put any more in there,,,,,not worth the risk IMO,,,, chaeto is all you need for algae-scrubbing and it's a great pod condo.

Keep up with the water changes and maybe extend the LOA lighting to 24h for a while,,, get that chaeto working.

Are your Halides DE bulbs? If so, are they shielded?
 

supergiantrobot

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Righty":d41cyrz8 said:
Sounds very much like the macros went sexual. What kind of macros and what is the lighting cycle of the 'fuge?

How well is the skimmer skimming?

How did you acclimate the new corals?


It doesn't sound like an iodine problem. I wouldn't add iodine unless you test for it - if you over dose it, you've got problems.

The 3 hour jump in MH may have something to do with the GSP issues.

See my new posting for the information on the macros.

The skimmer has been doing a lot of skimming recently. I do not know what the change was, but the skim volume increased.

The new corals were acclimated by adding water slowly to them, perhaps over an hour. I did not drop acclimate them however.
 

supergiantrobot

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Juck":prayolmf said:
Double-ended (i.e. not the type with a screw thread at one end of the bulb)

No, the MHs are the screw-in type, like a regular lightbulb. The hood is a PFO Professional hood. 48" with the MHs and VHOs all contained in the hood.
 

Juck

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Well if your skimmer is working harder then I'd say it was very likely that the macros are the problem.

Don't worry about the Star polyps unless you see a physical deterioration of the mat,,,, they'll come out eventually.

I've never kept a leather and there are many reasons why the digi could have died. I'd get the caulerpas out, increase the lighting on the fuge to 24h and keep up with your regular water changes. Everything should be back in balance within a week.

I had a bunch of Caulerpa and halimeda go sexual on me once,,, never again,, I'll stick to chaeto thanks!
 
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Anonymous

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Juck":ghizuhvq said:
My money is on the macros. First off I'd grab the Caulerpas and get them out of there,,, when they start to disintegrate they can turn to mush and be difficult to remove. Whether they have gone sexual or are failing for another reason, they are probably dumping cack into the water.

Chaeto is practically indestructable,, I'd leave it,, it should recover. Unless you're in-love with the idea of caulerpa I wouldn't put any more in there,,,,,not worth the risk IMO,,,, chaeto is all you need for algae-scrubbing and it's a great pod condo.

I agree!

I had caulerpa go sexual on me once and I won't have it in my tank again - what you are going through sounds exactly like what I went through. The caulerpa going weird is prolly what is making your skimmer go nuts and is prolly hurting your corals. I would pull all the macros but the chaeto, do a bigger water change, like 50% (the answer to pollution is dilution), and see what happens.
 

ChrisRD

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I agree with what's been said above - I think it's the macros as well. The nutrient release from the macros deteriorating could definitely show up as extra skimmate. Caulerpa sp. macros are known to be potentially toxic to corals and other marine life.

Also, by the looks of it, there's been some changes going-on that would create variations in temp and pH. That could be adding to the situation. IMO stablility is more important than hitting the perfect numbers when it comes to water parameters.

If it were me, I'd isolate the fuge from the system or at least try to remove all the Caulerpa. I'd also do the large water change as recommended above. Then I'd let things sit for a week or two (no major changes) and stabilize.
 

supergiantrobot

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ChrisRD":2jqf740e said:
Also, by the looks of it, there's been some changes going-on that would create variations in temp and pH. That could be adding to the situation. IMO stablility is more important than hitting the perfect numbers when it comes to water parameters.

Just to be clear, the temperature varies during the day with the MHs on, but more because my office gets really warm as the day goes on. That affects the ambient temperature. I need to get an HVAC person to come and help with the cooling in my office.

The pH starts at 8.2 and rises slowly at times during the day. I think I've read this is normal.

If you think these things are not acceptable, then I can try to adjust the chiller/heater control to keep it firmly at 78. I am not sure that I can control the pH all that much. It's predictable, but it does fluctuate.
 
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Anonymous

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I'm gonna through this out there also. Part of the problem could be the "lizard light". Those things through out a lot of heat, to tell the truth they aren't that great for growing plants. The mangroves would be better off with a grow light as would have been the caulerpa.

When I was having problems with my pH swinging, it turned out to be a co2 build up and I lost tons of snails. Had to up airflow into the skimmer to take care of that problem.
 

supergiantrobot

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knowse":2oeni71c said:
I'm gonna through this out there also. Part of the problem could be the "lizard light". Those things through out a lot of heat, to tell the truth they aren't that great for growing plants. The mangroves would be better off with a grow light as would have been the caulerpa.

When I was having problems with my pH swinging, it turned out to be a co2 build up and I lost tons of snails. Had to up airflow into the skimmer to take care of that problem.

The lizard light is on 24/7, but there is a 65W fluorescent flood light, too. The flood has been working well for the fuge, with nice algae growth and active margaritas and lots of "brillo" growth in the chaem.

I don't know if CO2 is my problem. How did you determine that was your problem? A test?
 

ChrisRD

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supergiantrobot":3gjr4gcq said:
ChrisRD":3gjr4gcq said:
Also, by the looks of it, there's been some changes going-on that would create variations in temp and pH. That could be adding to the situation. IMO stablility is more important than hitting the perfect numbers when it comes to water parameters.

Just to be clear, the temperature varies during the day with the MHs on, but more because my office gets really warm as the day goes on. That affects the ambient temperature. I need to get an HVAC person to come and help with the cooling in my office.

The pH starts at 8.2 and rises slowly at times during the day. I think I've read this is normal.

If you think these things are not acceptable, then I can try to adjust the chiller/heater control to keep it firmly at 78. I am not sure that I can control the pH all that much. It's predictable, but it does fluctuate.

Your numbers look fine - I was referring to the fact that there have been some changes to the system, ie. kalk dosing --> then no kalk dosing, adding more live rock, adding a chiller, adjusting system temps, etc. Sometimes when you make a change to the system livestock will react - takes them some time to adapt. Too many changes too fast can be stressful. IMO the caulerpa is probably the heart of the problem - just saying that some of the system changes could have added to the stress.
 

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