Why cant i keep clowns alive?

[jmrugo]

I have one clown left out of 4, started out with two and have added as they have died. Now the last one is showing same signs of problems. Starts out with the fish swimming furioulsy in the most turbulent water in the tank, followed quickly, over 24 hours, by appearance of filmy eyes, clamped top fin. Death folows quickly.

Any one with any thoughts on what is afflicting them and what to do about it?

75 gal FOWLR. 3 months old. Water tests out just fine. foxface, sailfin tang, lawnmower bleney and 6 green chromis.

 

[jmrugo]

And has anyone had any experience with the anti-fungal remedy PimaFix?

 

[Chucky]

Only Melafix anti bacterial in freshwater, and it works quite well. Not perfectly, but good.
Company pamphlet sez:

Melafix: antibacterail 'power' of "Melalauca" tea tree.
Pimafix: antifungal 'power' of Pimenta racemosa (West Indian Bay Tree) in fresh and salt:
rapidly treats fungal infections
inhibits development of resistant strains (patent BS; every drug INHIBITS them...they evolve in relation to the inhibiting factor!!)

 

[spsmike]

Wonder if they are being attacked by your healthy clownfish....

 

[Anonymous]

I have one clown left out of 4, started out with two and have added as they have died. Now the last one is showing same signs of problems. Starts out with the fish swimming furioulsy in the most turbulent water in the tank, followed quickly, over 24 hours, by appearance of filmy eyes, clamped top fin. Death folows quickly.

Any one with any thoughts on what is afflicting them and what to do about it?

75 gal FOWLR. 3 months old. Water tests out just fine. foxface, sailfin tang, lawnmower bleney and 6 green chromis.

If I may ask, what is "fine" in terms of your water values? 90 days isn't very long for a tank to be set up and stable and if fish keep dying water quality would be the first place I would look for trouble.

How long were they in the tank before these symptoms started, and did you quarentine the new fish beforehand? Did you buy them from the same source, and are any of the other inhabitants showing any signs of stress?

Edited: here's a link to an earlier similar thread....
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t ... amped+fins

 

[Anonymous]

I would not add anymore fish to the tank for a while. For 3 month old tank you are already pushing it. I just reread you list of fish I think you are over stocked for a 75. Are you running a skimmer? What is your water circulation?

 

[jmrugo]

Thanks for the responses.

Really? You think I am overstocked? What would be ideal stocking level for 75 gal FOWLR, although I hope to move to easy corals eventually. As of today: one sick clown, one foxface, 6 small (about 1 inch long) green chromis, one sail fin tang, not quite two inches long, one lawn mower blenney, and one cleaner shrimp.

I have learned, here, that 3 months is just not that old for a tank and patience is required.

Today the one remaining clown is exhibiting same behaviour of swimming aggressivley into strong current. Tail is a bit ragged with some white spots (but larger than salt grains). Tried a dose of Pimafix. Made skimmer act strange, it didnt want to skim, for a few hours, then recovered. Will continue to does Pimafix tonight unless fish looks doomed.

I use an Aqua C Remora skimmer. Circulation is from two Maxi Jet 900's 24 hours,. supplemented by day with three of those rotating head power heads focusing on circulation in the rear of the tank, for more vigor in the circulation during the day. Also run Penguin Emperor with no bio wheels, typically running Polyfilter and carbon, sometime a filter pad with carbon.

I have no quarantine tank. The clowns were tank raised and quarantined at the LFS. Every time I have gone to the trouble to set up a temporary tank for sick fish, they have died right away, so I am not anxious to have a quarantine tank taking up room and resources.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the responses.

Really? You think I am overstocked? What would be ideal stocking level for 75 gal FOWLR, although I hope to move to easy corals eventually. As of today: one sick clown, one foxface, 6 small (about 1 inch long) green chromis, one sail fin tang, not quite two inches long, one lawn mower blenney, and one cleaner shrimp.

I have learned, here, that 3 months is just not that old for a tank and patience is required.

I think you answered your own question, your bioload may be a bit much for such a new tank.

Today the one remaining clown is exhibiting same behaviour of swimming aggressivley into strong current. Tail is a bit ragged with some white spots (but larger than salt grains). Tried a dose of Pimafix. Made skimmer act strange, it didnt want to skim, for a few hours, then recovered. Will continue to does Pimafix tonight unless fish looks doomed.

Sorry to hear that, but I am still leaning towards water quality as the culprit.

I have no quarantine tank. The clowns were tank raised and quarantined at the LFS. Every time I have gone to the trouble to set up a temporary tank for sick fish, they have died right away, so I am not anxious to have a quarantine tank taking up room and resources.

A Q-tank, or hospital tank doesn't need to cost an arm and a leg, do a search here. I've used rubbermaid containers, one old HOB filter and a heater-instant extra tank .

Quarantining fish before you put them into the display is still cheaper in a lot of ways than the possibility of infecting your whole tank with a new arrival. Even though your LFS quarantines, it's still not a good idea to put new fish in your display tank, IMO.

 

[Juck]

I wouldn't let my own Mother quarrantine a fish for me,,,, it's one of those things you have to do yourself,,, then you can't blame anyone else when things go tits-up.

Like lawdawg said, a QT tank for small fish doesn't have to be expensive,,,, a 5g bucket and an airstone and a cheap heater is just fine as long as you perform regular water changes.

As for your problems,, I think Brooklynella or Marine Velvet is the likely culprit.

I don't think you're overstocked for a 75g FOWLR; but I agree that the fish may have been put in there a little quickly.

Good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Hahaha, an lfs here has been q'ing a powder blue tang for a month in their display system. It's still a fuzzy fish and so are all the other fish in that system.

 

[Anonymous]

As for your problems,, I think Brooklynella or Marine Velvet is the likely culprit.

I don't think you're overstocked for a 75g FOWLR; but I agree that the fish may have been put in there a little quickly.

Good luck

Wouldn't the other fish in the tank come down with signs, not just the clowns Juck?

 

[Juck]

That's not been my experience with either disease (albeit very limited experience) but I think every situation is unique,,, it just boils down to luck.

I had a huge female Premnas that had velvet about six months ago,,,, I could not get her out of the tank in the 2 days it took her to die,,, her little male friend never left her side and didn't get it,, and neither did the 4 PJ cardinals and Cherub angel that were in the same tank. I QT't the fish for 5 weeks,, I have no idea how this one happened.

Brooklynella (I think) took out 4 oscellaris a long time ago, before I started QT'ing fish,,, none of the other fish in my 75 were affected,, though I can't remember what they were exactly. I know brooklynella can affect other species outside the damsel family but I don't think it's quite as prone to do so as Velvet.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Juck! I was wondering about that...

 

[Jolieve]

Also.. clownfish are NOT meant to be kept in groups of four. I have heard that you can keep larger groups of tank-raised fish, but that is still ill-advised IMO.

Clownfish can be kepted in mated pairs (this means at most... two clownfish per tank). Making sure your two clownfish will pair up is a little tricky, but not so bad that a newbie can't do it. Just read a lot about it before you try it. Otherwise... one clownfish to a tank.

I also agree with these guys, your tank is overstocked. But I don't think it is severely overstocked. Still.. they are right, no more fish for you. The major problem here, is the sailfin and the foxface. Pick one of these two fish. Both get large and produce a lot of waste. I would consider returning the sailfin to the LFS, or finding someone with a much larger tank who is in the market for one. Sailfins get too large to keep happy in a 75 long term IMO. I love sailfins too, but I opted for a yellow tang in my 75 since they don't get quite as big.

I also would not have put in 6 green chromis (just a note for you to remember in the future, schooling fish should generally be stocked in odd numbers, 3 or 5, not 4 or 6). 3 is enough to do the job in a 75. Chromis get big enough that three of them make for a nice school in this size of tank.

I hope this helps you out some and I hope that I didn't sound to preachy. The fact that you asked for help here shows me that you care about your critters, and you have come to the right place. The people here care about your critters too.

Good luck to you, and welcome to the hobby!
J.

 

[Jolieve]

kepted... LOL! *giggles at her typo* kept.

Sorry for the confusion.

J.

 

[Juck]

Also.. clownfish are NOT meant to be kept in groups of four.

That's a pretty sweeping statement and one that does not hold true in the wild or in a tank,,, I've seen picures of large ritteri's hosting a dozen or more clowns.

If you provide a suitable environment then you can keep groups of clowns,, no problem,, as long as you start with one female and a bunch of Juveniles,, or a female, male and juveniles,,or just a bunch of juveniles. I wouldn't try it with Premnas or Tomato clowns but it's worked just fine for me with pink skunks, Oscellaris and Perculas,,, all wild-caught. There's a clear pecking order for sure but I've never seen a single ripped fin, ever.

Just a personal observation, but IME a group of at least four speeds up the first spawn of the 2 dominant fish as well. They're much more interesting as a group,,,I can watch my skunks for hours,, the female is gravid at the moment and all 4 fish help with the nest preparation.

 

[Jolieve]

To be honest with you Juck, your experiences don't jive with my research about keeping clownfish. And it's also not something I would encourage a newbie to try.

J.

 

[Juck]

I wouldn't encourage a newbie to do it either,, I was talking to you,, and we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[jmrugo]

Thank you for that advice. Someday I am going to post a "Confessions of a New Saltwater Aquarium Hobbyist" with everything I have learned after the fact for the benefit of newbies.

This is where I have a problem with LFS', their advice on stocking is simply wrong most of the time I am finding, which makes no sense to me. It seems their attitude is sell all you can right now because in 12 months he wont be in the hobby anymore. Maybe thats right from a business sense based on experience, but better advice might make it easier for people to stay in the hobby longer.

Since the Foxface and Sailfin spend a great deal of time facing each other down, I am going to look into getting rid of the Sailfin. I will also reduce the school of chromis.

Question: will a yellow tang get along decently with a yellow foxface or will they constantly threaten each other as is happening now with the sailfin?

 

[jmrugo]

Thank you for that advice. Someday I am going to post a "Confessions of a New Saltwater Aquarium Hobbyist" with everything I have learned after the fact for the benefit of newbies.

This is where I have a problem with LFS', their advice on stocking is simply wrong most of the time I am finding, which makes no sense to me. It seems their attitude is sell all you can right now because in 12 months he wont be in the hobby anymore. Maybe thats right from a business sense based on experience, but better advice might make it easier for people to stay in the hobby longer.

Since the Foxface and Sailfin spend a great deal of time facing each other down, I am going to look into getting rid of the Sailfin. I will also reduce the school of chromis.

Question: will a yellow tang get along decently with a yellow foxface or will they constantly threaten each other as is happening now with the sailfin?