Very High Nitrate Levels

[allstar27]

New to this, need help. I was given an established tank two weeks ago. My genorous friend has kept several sw and fw tanks for 15 years or so. Great setup (I think). Tank has been est. for several years...
55gal, 80lbs live rock, Emperor filter (big one w/ 2chambers and bio wheels- 1800??), Protien skim (cpr brand??) 3 pumps (2 powerjet 1200s and 1 powerhead 820, strategically placed for flow) test kits, chems, food, the whole set-up.
Oh, and 2 fish a Jag. puffer and a Niger Trigger, and a couple of hermit crabs.
I did add a Yellow Tang and a REALLY beautiful clownfish (maroon).
Anyway I tested the water and everything looked good BUT very high nitrate levels- NO3. All others looked good. The great guy at the LFS tested my water (and spent over an hour with me to answer my questions) and found the same.He thought the high NO3 and low salinity was due to old water.(maybe my buddy neglected the tank lately) He recommended a 25% water change. I changed ~12 gal. My salinity is better 1.0215, but my N03 is still out of control. I moved the LR around and vacuumed nearly the entire substrate (crushed shell). It's been about 72 hours since water chg, but tests are still the same. I'm still learning, but I need some help. Any solutions? Do I need to chg more water? My friend that gave me the tank uses almost no chemicals. His approach was to let nature take it's course. I use the same on my FW tanks. He even practices natural de-clorination (water in the sun instead of chemical de-chlor.)
Please help this newbie out.Your website has been a daily stop for me for months.Longwinded I know, but I'm trying to give as much info as I can...
Thanks

 

[wyw]

I am sure the big guns will be here soon but till then... Might I suggest the nitrate could be the last stage of a mini cycle from moving the tank? If the nitrates aren't too high you might want to just let everything be for a while. See if they come down on there own. Cleaning and moving those rocks and sand bed could be making the problem last longer. If the nitrates are dangerously high, do another large water change then wait and see.

The nitrates could also be coming from your water supply if you are using tap water. Most people use Revers Osmosis water for to off water and to mix with salt for changes. Many fish stores carry it. Eventually most of us end up buying a RO or RO/DI system for home.

Good Luck! and welcome to the board!

What are the amonia, nitrite and nitrate levels?

 

[allstar27]

Amonia and Nitrite are great, normal levels. I used RO/DI water in the water change. I thought that the move might have stirred up the substrate and helped the nitrates skyrocket. LFS guy said that's probably not the case that the nitrates are in my water table.( old water?)

Glad to finally be here.I've been waiting for months to get started, and lucked out by no s/u cost. I figure I recieved around a $2K set up. He and his wife are just too busy lately, and knew I was salivating to start. All of the tankmates get along great and all are healthy. The Jag puffer (brackish) is the fav of me and my wife. Little guy, but LOTS of personality!!

 

[wyw]

I would believe the move more than "old water" There are many reef keepers out there that haven't done a water change in years whose tanks have undetectable nitrates. I've never had that talent but I have read quite a few of them here on reefs.org.

After moving all the rocks around and cleaning up you may see another mini cycle (look for the rising ammonia etc.). If the levels don't come down on there own then you will have to do some detective work, look at over feeding, skimmer not working, too heavy bioload. There are lots of things but I think it's too early to worry about it. I expect given a little time things will settle down.

I am confused how the salinity level could have gotten low from neglect. When I neglect my tank the salinity goes up due to lack of top off water. The low salinity might have caused some of your creatures to die off causing the nitrate spike also.

Glad to hear you are using RO/DI water it makes it easier to rule that out of the equation.

 

[wyw]

I just reread your post and noticed the bioweel. This could also be where your nitrates are coming from. I don't have a heavy fish load but most reefers don't keep bioweels because they become nitrate factories. You also probably want to hold off adding anything else new till you get the nitrates under control.

 

[MartinE]

I would say get rid of just the wheel part on the filter and run the carbon or some other media and do frequent small water changes until the nitrates get under control. I also would not add any livestock, or feed a large amount to the fish you have.

 

[ChrisRD]

Hi Allstar and :welcome:

The good news is that nitrates are not very toxic to your fish. IMO, however, it's an indication that the system has some issues and could be running better. It's tough to say exactly what the problem is, but there are a few key things to consider first (some already mentioned).

IMO the main issue is probably the crushed coral substrate. The CC beds are notorious for collecting detritus and as the gunk decomposes it causes a nitrate problem. IME that type of bed needs to be vacuumed regularly to keep water quality up. If the previous owner wasn't vacuuming the bed on a regular basis, nitrate levels would have built-up excessively, and even though you've cleaned-the bed now and it may have made a large dent in reversing the problem, it will take some time and some large water changes to get things back on track.

Heavy feeding will make things worse too, but then, you have some hearty (and messy) eaters and heavy waste producers in there (puffers, triggers and tangs are among the worse for this), so I'm not sure there's much you can do there. One way to counteract that situation is to increase export (ie. better skimmer, clean powerfilter frequently, syphon bed frequently, etc.). If your skimmer doesn't produce a noticeable amount of skimmate every day it's not doing its job and you might need to look at something better (or at least get your current skimmer working better). Keeping the skimmer well cleaned/tuned will help get the most out of it.

For now, to lower your nitrates initially, the easiest thing to do is several large water changes. Use RO/DI water and take care to match temp, pH and SG very closely with system water so as not to shock the fish.

In the longer term, to keep from having to fight the problem you need strong export given the type of fish you have in there. Periodically blasting the rockwork with a powerhead, vacuuming the CC bed, frequently cleaning your powerfilter, running good quality activated carbon, having good, strong circulation and possibly getting a better skimmer down-the-road will all help. The key is to get the wastes out and not to let detritus accumulate and decompose in the system.

Removing the biowheel from your powerfilter might not be a bad idea either, as it's redundant (the live rock will provide more than enough biological filtration) and it maybe adding to the problem. In fact, if you've got a good enough skimmer, it's really not necessary to run the powerfilter at all, although they do come in handy for periodically running carbon or filtering any floating debris (like filtering out suspended detritus after a good rock "storming" for example) from the water column. In your case, if the skimmer is marginal, you're probably better-off running the powerfilter as well - just make sure to keep it clean or it will start working against you (detritus will accumulate and decompose in the filter making nitrate levels rise).

Anyway, sorry for rambling... ...welcome aboard and HTH. :wink:

 

[wyw]

Why frequent small water changes vs. fewer large? There have been so many discussions on the board saying frequent small changes remove less waste than infrequent large ones. You know it starts with the basic water change question then quickly disintegrates into a mathematical discussion with equations sprinkled about . I thought the discussion usually ended suggesting mathematically frequent small water changes actually remove little waste.

Have I gotten this wrong?

Thanks

 

[ChrisRD]

No, you are correct. Mathematically speaking, frequent, small water changes are relatively ineffective at diluting pollutants.

Small frequent water changes are fine for replacing trace elements or replacing sypon water (ie. syphoning detritus - which can be very helpful to water quality) and are great when people are more concerned with stabillity.

Large water changes are much more effective for dilution. In this case where you're looking to dilute the nitrates (at least initially), I recommend a few large, back-to-back water changes.

 

[wyw]

Thanks, it's nice to know I'm not going senile.

 

[Anonymous]

I would believe the move more than "old water" There are many reef keepers out there that haven't done a water change in years whose tanks have undetectable nitrates. I've never had that talent but I have read quite a few of them here on reefs.org.

I have never had a Nitrate problem in 3 years now. I never do water changes but do keep an eye on salinity levels. If needed I will just add a bit of disolved salt in my till the salinity is back up to normal. I have not even had to do that.