When is right time to add host for clowns?

[coffeeisforclosers]

OK... my 5th post!

Finally cylced my 12g nanocube. I added 3 red leg hermits, 2 bumblebee snails, and 1 turbo snail a couple of weeks back. Everyone was happy and water tests were fine... so I added my mated pair of ocelaris clowns yesterday.

Question is: when can I add a host for the clowns? What indicators should I look for? How long should I wait/test water quality? What are ideal water conditions?

NOTE: Everyone appears happy and likes their new home. In fact, the male clown is starting to do the "shimmy shimmy shake" next to the female that I have heard is common while spawning.

Any advice on a host type or timing to add a host?

thx,
Dennis

 

[Juck]

Are the clowns actively spawning? Have they spawned together before? How big are they?

How much light do you have in your cube? Made any mods?

Your only real choice of anemone for a Nanocube is a BTA,, which is not a natural host for oscellaris,, but they often take to them.

Resist the temptation to buy a sebae, Conylactis, LTA, carpet or ritteri anemone; they will likely die in a nanocube.

 

[coffeeisforclosers]

Hi Juck,

No, the clowns are not actively spawning... but it looks like they could. They are about 2-2.5 inches each and have never spawned... but they were in a large 120g tank for the last 4 years with tangs, triggers, etc... now on their own.

My tank is a 12g Nanocube DX with no mods. Just live rock and live sand, a few hermint crabs and snails. http://www.jbjlighting.com/sys_12gdx_nanocube.html

There are two 24W compact 50/50 bulbs... I though this woulld be enough light for such a small tank. I have been told that it should support an anemone and my LFS has one that has been operating for over a year with a healthy anemone. What do you think?

Why not a ritteri? I know they are supposedly difficult... why is this? If not a ritteri, what else?

Regards,
Dennis

 

[Jolieve]

You do not have to add a natural host, and in a nanocube, I wouldn't. Anemones get pretty big and without a larger tank to move the anemone to, it's not very fair to the anemone.

Clownfish will host in anything. I do mean, anything. They have been known to host in several types of lps coral. Someone on this board has a pair of clownfish hosting in xenia. My clownfish host in a colt coral and have hosted in hair algae. Yes, I kid you not, my clownfish hosted in hair algae and I have pics to prove it.

Go find yourself a soft coral that is fairly hardy, or an lps coral that you are willing to frag frequently (bubble coral and frogspawn are a couple of good examples) to keep the size small and use that as an alternative host for your clowns instead.

J.

 

[Juck]

A BTA will probably do just fine in a Nanocube under 48w of PC with excellent water conditions,,, it will probably wander around a bit at first, mine certainly did,, but will eventually find someplace it likes.

I have to say that when I kept a couple of young Maroon clowns in my Nanocube they were absolutely miserable ,, and they were both only about 1.5" long,,,,, a 2.5" fish might not be happy in there after living in a 120g.

>>Why not a ritteri? I know they are supposedly difficult... why is this?


They get big,,,, very big,,, 2.5 feet across or more,,,,it needs halides and perfect water quality. I don't think Ritteri's are *that* difficult to keep, it's just that they don't belong in a Nanocube.


>>If not a ritteri, what else?

There are several soft corals that an oscellaris might take as a surrogate, but if it was me I'd try a BTA. They're cheap, and tank-bred/raised clones are readily available. Ritteri anemones are all wild-caught so you're indirectly taking a clownfish habitat out of the ocean on the off-chance you can keep it alive for a few months,,, in the wild, a Ritteri can live for many dozens of years. If you kill a Tank-raised BTA then,,, not to sound heartless but,,,, who cares?

 

[coffeeisforclosers]

Thanks Guys. A BTA = bubble tip anemone, right? What is an LPS coral? Sorry, I am new to the lingo.

-Dennis

 

[Jolieve]

large polyp stony coral. Sorry I didn't specify before, should have kept in mind that I was posting in new person's area! *chuckle*

 

[Jolieve]

Also.. I have to disagree with Juck on ritteri anemones not being that difficult to keep. I haven't heard any success stories with them that go much past two years, and I'm all about keeping them alive for as long as I possibly can. Two years isn't long enough IMO, not when they can live for decades in the wild. Until these anemones have a good track record of being able to survive for a decade or more (given good care) in our tanks, I think they are best left in the ocean.

J.

 

[Anonymous]

RBTA are easy to propogate and readily available. I agree with the above posters that other hosts like Hairy Mushrooms, Frogspawn, etc. are easier but if for some compulsion you must have an Anemone then the RBTA is the best bet IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm going to disagree all the away around on the bta. I truely don't think it will thrive under 48w's. And just because something is captive bred or cloned, doesn't make it right to care less if it dies.

If Dennis has to have a host, then he should look to some hairy shrooms UNTIL he gets some experience. Then he can upgrade his lighting and go for a bta. By the way, they also get freaking big, mine hit 12" before it split.

 

[Juck]

In a Nanocube with LR, the BTA will likely be 6" or so from the lights,, with good husbandry it should be just fine. And really, a 12" BTA is the exception, not the rule. Keeping a BTA is about as difficult as putting on a hat.

>>And just because something is captive bred or
>>cloned, doesn't make it right to care less if it dies.

Yeh, it does. A tank raised BTA is no different from a single Zoanthid,,,, no brains or feelings,,, we're not talking about a golden retriever here. I scraped a couple of hundred Zoo's off a rock a few weeks ago to make room in my tank,,,, threw them straight in the trash; I don't think I or anyone else would lose sleep over that,,, how is a tank-raised BTA any different?

 

[Jolieve]

I think the point that knowse is trying to make is that just because an animal is captive raised and lower on the food chain than we are, is no excuse for poor husbandry.

If the bta is just going to die in Dennis's tank, there is no point in advising him to put one in. Isn't our goal in this hobby to be successful reefkeepers, and isn't our goal for this forum to show other people how to be successful?

This is not the way. There's no guarantee that the anemone will live in Dennis's tank.

J.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the point that knowse is trying to make is that just because an animal is captive raised and lower on the food chain than we are, is no excuse for poor husbandry.

If the bta is just going to die in Dennis's tank, there is no point in advising him to put one in. Isn't our goal in this hobby to be successful reefkeepers, and isn't our goal for this forum to show other people how to be successful?

This is not the way. There's no guarantee that the anemone will live in Dennis's tank.

Thanks Jolieve, that is what I meant.

In a Nanocube with LR, the BTA will likely be 6" or so from the lights,, with good husbandry it should be just fine. And really, a 12" BTA is the exception, not the rule. Keeping a BTA is about as difficult as putting on a hat.

>>And just because something is captive bred or
>>cloned, doesn't make it right to care less if it dies.

Yeh, it does. A tank raised BTA is no different from a single Zoanthid,,,, no brains or feelings,,, we're not talking about a golden retriever here. I scraped a couple of hundred Zoo's off a rock a few weeks ago to make room in my tank,,,, threw them straight in the trash; I don't think I or anyone else would lose sleep over that,,, how is a tank-raised BTA any different?

Juck, how can you say his bta will be 6" from the light source? There's no telling where it will decide to take up house. Crap, I've had one take a walk and end up going down the overflow into the sump before finding a place in the tank that it did like. I know I've read hundreds of threads about bta's roaming, not staying where placed and dying from lack of proper lighting and/or feeding. Why encourage someone who is new to go out and get something that is going to probably die?

And I just gotta say this, most lfs, don't carry tr clones, they carry wild caught

Maybe to you bta's are easy, but for the beginner they are very difficult and demanding. I still think David needs to get some experience under his belt before trying one, at least let his tank mature for about 6 months or so.

 

[smartin]

From one Newbie to another, I agree that trying a BTA at this early of a stag would be a bad idea. It may work it may not. If it works great! If it doesn't, well the cons out weight the pros IMO. Especially considering I have a pair of clowns that move back and forth between my Xenia and my long polyped sacrophyton and the small price I paid for these corals vs the price of a BTA that may or may not live just seems like comon sence to me. Also from what I understand(may be wrong on this and please correct me if I am) with a tank that small once you add an anemone you would not be able to add other corals because of the aggressiveness of the BTA.

 

[Juck]

Well,,, obviously I can't say for sure that the BTA will be 6" from the lights, but if the tank has a 1.5" sandbed then the absolute maximum it can be from the lights is 10" ,,, and if there's LR in there too,,, the odds are high it will wander around the LR until it finds someplace it likes,,,most likely in the upper part of the tank,, sooooooooo,,, like I said,,, odds are that it will 6" or so from the light. But like you,,, I've had BTA's wander around for weeks.

I still don't see where anyone gets-off thinking a Tank raised BTA clone is any more important or less disposable than a zoanthid, or a single GSP,,, or a xenia polyp,,,,they're all practically the same thing. Not sure what universe you all live in, but most online retailers and many of the LFS's I visit on my travels, sell BTA's for about the same price as a comparable size soft coral or a nice zoanthid rock.

If you think he needs more experience that's ok,,,, I qualified my statement that good husbandry should be practised and excellent water conditions exist,,,, and if you think a BTA won't live happily under 48w of PC lights then we'll just agree to disagree.

>>And I just gotta say this, most lfs, don't
>>carry tr clones, they carry wild caught

Who said anything about him getting a tank-raised BTA from an LFS? I'm just as opposed to ripping anemones out of the ocean as the next person. I wouldn't buy a BTA unless I was fairly sure it was a tank-raised clone.

 

[Anonymous]

Juck it's more like "we in our own little universes" just hate to see anything die. Wether it's a zoa, snail, worm, bta or fish makes no difference. I hate to see anything I bought or was given die in my care, that's all.

I had a rbta in a 2.5 with 4x9w pc with 250gph for circulation for a year. The bta was always just under the glass in the return flow. It was healthy looking, it ate great and I "thought" it was truely happy. But for some reason, I decided to place into the 29 with 250w mh lighting. Man, talk about a difference! That thing is freaking huge, it's colors, which were great in the 2.5, are even brighter than they were and it's a whole lot bigger than it was. It was even bigger the day I moved it.

Regardless of wether we agree or disagree, I still love ya, baby.

 

[Anonymous]

Personally I would nopt add an anemone to such a small tank unless it was the only thing in there with a single clown.

 

[Juck]

>>"we in our own little universes" just hate to see anything die

Well,, I don't exactly kick penguins for a hobby either but I didn't mind killing those zoos,, they were brown and not terribly attractive,, I couldn't have given them away. I'm just saying why bother with a leather coral etc. when a BTA is available for about the same price.

BTA's are weird,,,, over a year ago I bought a white one with purple tips for $5 ,,, figured I might be able to bring it back,,,,,, it stayed white under 20k halides,,,, stayed white under 6500k halides,,,, apart from the color it looks perfectly healthy,,, grew a couple of inches and was all nice and bubbly. About 6 months ago it split,,, so I had two white bubble tips that seem perfectly healthy. Two months ago the clone split again,,, so now I have three,, though the latest one is only a couple of inches across but it seems happy under 48w of PC in my cube.

Is it a weird color morph? I don't see how a BTA that has expelled all it's zooxanthelae (that must be spelled wrong) can stay healthy looking and split,, especially considering I hardly ever remember to feed them.

Here is a pic of the baby,,,, my mates used to tell me: 'it's doomed,,, dooooooomed!' ,,,, now it's all 'wellllll,,, I'll take one off your hands if you don't want it':

 

[RobertoVespucci]

Beautiful.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah I think they call those purple tipped bta's or something like that. I got one just like that but it only lived a month or so before it fell apart. (Clarkii loved it to death) It was one I tried under the old lighting.

I had a rbta under 4x9w pc in a 2.5. Kept is color very well, just didn't bubble. I moved it to the 29 and in one day it tripled in size. They are very weird indeed.