Need Advise I think I have Bio overload

[BOSS252]

I have a real problem. I have a 55 gallon tank, it has been set up for 8 years. Fish only with 70 lbs of live rock(Figi & Marshall). A few months ago a freind of mine had a major crack in his 130 gallon tank he called me at 12:30 at night and said if I wanted anything from his tank to come over and get now or he was going to throw it all away. Needless to say I took it all. Now I have a phosphate problem I can't seem to shake. Here is what I have in the tank:

2 percula clowns 2" & 3"
1 Purple Tang 4"
1 Pacific Blue Tang 6"
1 Sailfin tang 5"
1 Bi-Color Angle 3"
2 Cabbage Leathers 4" round or so
Asst Mushrooms

I have a CPR CY192 wet/dry built in skimmer.
2- 96 watt pc's and 4 55 watt pc's.

The substrate is cruched coral. I have a undergravel filter. Looking up from under the stand under the undergravel, It looks like mud. No matter how much I vac the substrate the mud is still there. My question is what is the best way to take out the undergravel filter with out harming the fish and corals. I feel I have way to much load on this tank. The Hair Alage is driving me crazy. I do 2 water changes a week of 10 - 15 gallon. I do use ro/di water, but the phosphate levels just won't come down.

Someone please steer me in the right direction.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Anonymous]

Have you tried Phosphate Sponge? I used it in my overstocked 29 gallon and it worked great.

 

[BOSS252]

Yes I use Phosgaurd and change it out every 4-5 days. Have also tried Phosban. Thanks for the reply

 

[Anonymous]

With respect, 3 tangs of those size in a 55 gallon is 3 tangs too many, imho. Your bioload is too heavy...it will very hard to get tank parameters back in line with those fish in your tank. Have you considered sending those fish to your LFS for store credit? I know it may not amount to much, but I don't suspect those fish are very happy in your tank...there's just not enough swimming room.

I'm not sure how you take out the underground filter...but I still think it's a good idea. Perhaps you can you take the fish out temporarily...but be prepared to do a large water change after it is out. I wish you good luck, BOSS252.

 

[BOSS252]

My LFS didn't want them. My tank is bigger than any tank they have in the store anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

A quick temporary fix....

You can suck out the guck from under the filter plate by disconnecting the lift tube and siphoning out water from under the plate directly, or use a piece of tubing with a smaller diameter that fits right into the lift tube. That will help some. A better skimmer would also help.

Removing the UG filter is IMO helpful, but would not stop the problem of too many fish in too few gallons. :wink: You could always start another much bigger tank but I'd get rid of the tangs altogether. Also understand you will most certainly have a mini-cycle at least and have to watch the water values carefully.

An option would be to leave the UG plate, disconnect and cap off the lift tubes and use it as a plenum-style filter if you're so inclined. You could remove the CC substrate and put sand over top of it.

You can also remove the UG filter and go with a sandbed, but it will take time and lots of planning. You need:

enough saltwater mixed for at least a 100% change in case something goes wrong and you can't save enough tankwater,

unmixed R/O water,

containers to put the fish in while you are working and a separate one for the leather coral,

containers for the water you drain out of your tank, I'd try and save as much as possible,

container to "swish" off your existing rock,

containers for the sand, which you will have to thoroughly wash beforehand to get the silt out. You can't just dump unwashed substrate into a tank (been there, done that) it gets ugly.

Air pumps with airstones and spare heaters for the containers would be nice.

Beer. Oh yeah, having a buddy or two to help would be great also.

Get all your stuff together, drain water into the fish/coral holding containers and set those aside. Pull out the corals first and then the liverock-you can get away with wet paper and garbage bags for holding your live rock for a while. Net out fish as you can, also put a something over the buckets or whatever they are in to avoid carpet surfing fish if they get spooked. Save as much tankwater as you can. Also have a container of fairly clean water to rinse off your live rock, you'll be amazed at the guck.

Drain off rest of tank, remove old substrate and UG. Add new substrate, and reverse the break down process. Drink beer only after fish are in new clean tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Where are you located?

Isn't there anyone around that can buy or trade for some of those fish?

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah that was my thinking, he could post them on the "for sale/trade" forum on RDO, or check with local clubs.

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=51

 

[BOSS252]

Thanks for the reply Lawdawg. That's what I was afraid of. I don't have any lift tubes on the undergravel filter. I would really like to get a larger tank and start over. I would have to take the old tank down first because it is in the only spot I have to put a new one in. Would the new tank have to cycle first before I put anything in it?

I live in Quincy,IL. about 2-1/2 hours from St.Louis and 4-1/2 from Chicago.

I'm getting very frustrated it's been an up hill battle.

Thanks again

 

[Anonymous]

Okay I'm confused...you have no lift tubes on the UG??? You just have the plate with no water flow in and out? Then it's not working as an 'undergravel filter', it's acting more like a plenum. Do you have caps over the lift tube holes, or did you just let substrate fill in the space? Regardless I'd pull it out after having been set up so long.

To answer your other question yes you'd have to cycle a new bigger tank if you started one, but if you use the existing live rock it should not be so bad. But, unless your talking a huge 150+ gallon tank it's still IMO you have too many fish. Those tangs need a lot of space.

 

[BOSS252]

Yes there is substrate in the holes. No it's not working. should it be? It all happen so fast I didn't have time to do it right. now I'm paying for it. I do have a 30 gallon I just setup to move a couple of fish to. it is not done cycling yet.

I am just glad that a freind took my 2 yellow tangs and 1 Blue tang off my hands. they were all in there also for about 2 months.

I have a Red Seas Berlin skimmer that is still in the box. would I be any better off hooking it up?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes there is substrate in the holes. No it's not working. should it be? It all happen so fast I didn't have time to do it right. now I'm paying for it. I do have a 30 gallon I just setup to move a couple of fish to. it is not done cycling yet.

A UG without a lot of water movement, and too shallow a substrate is a simply a nitrate factory! Properly running its a bit more useful, but again not much use with that load of fish. How far along is the 30 gallon?

I am just glad that a freind took my 2 yellow tangs and 1 Blue tang off my hands. they were all in there also for about 2 months.

8O
...dawg waits for the Tang police to show up

I have a Red Seas Berlin skimmer that is still in the box. would I be any better off hooking it up?

Probably so. Anything to help export those nutrients.

 

[BOSS252]

the 30 has been set up for about 2 weeks. It's got about a 3" sand bed and 30lbs of cured live rock in it.

 

[Anonymous]

What's the water testing at?

 

[BOSS252]

...dawg waits for the Tang police to show up

I know the freind I got these fish from had a tang fetish

 

[BOSS252]

I just did a water change last night and have not had a chance to test the water yet. I will do it when I go home for lunch.

 

[ChrisRD]

If you want to setup a bigger tank anyway, I'd use some heavy duty plastic trashcans or something similar to temporarily relocate/store the rock, fish and water (+ some new saltwater) while I tore down the old tank and setup the new one. Setup the new tank with a really good skimmer and forget the UGF.

 

[BOSS252]

This is going to be a job. anyone want to come help

How long can the coral and fish live in trash cans? or can I just put them right in and take a chance?

 

[BOSS252]

Would a fuge be any help. if so how large of one? I know I need to part with some fish.

 

[ChrisRD]

I'd prefer to do the whole thing in a day or two in which case everything should be fine. If it was going to be more than 24 hours, I would get some light over the corals. If you're going to need them in the temporary holding setup for longer than say a few days, I'd use something wider and shallower than a trashcan so you can light the corals well and the fish have some room to swim.