New to Saltwater

[RShort]

Hi All,
I am a newbie to SW. I have kept FW tank for over 20 years. I have decided to take the plunge into SW. I have a 75 gal tank I am going to switch over. Here are some questions I have:
1.) What would you do if you had the opportunity to start this tank up?
2.) Have checked into both sides of plenum DSB versus no plenum, what do you think and why?
3.)I want a reef tank with corals, inverts, and some fish. What lighting would you use, VHO, PC, MH, T-5's and why?
4.)Do refugium's make that much differance in tank quality, if so why?
5.)Have done some research. Am intersested in making my own aragocrete rocks. Has anyone done this, and if so, what were the results?(see GARF.org)
6.)Open top or closed top and why?

Am taking it slow and trying to get multiple opinions and would appreciate any and all input. Doing lots of research and reading. I want to get this right, especially with the monetary investment required.

Thanks for all responses.

 

[ChrisRD]

Hi RShort and :welcome:

Here's my opinions regarding your questions:

1) Although the specifics of the setup would depend on the goal, in general, I'd plan on spending most of the initial money on an RO/DI (if you don't already have one), a good skimmer, quality pumps (I prefer external when possible), good lighting, and lots of circulation.

2) Neither. Personally, I prefer running the tank bare bottomed, or a shallow sandbed of mixed gradation (aragonite sand, but not the powdery stuff being recommended for DSBs). With an adequate skimmer and plenty of live rock, I've never had a problem with nitrate issues with/without sandbeds.

3) I really like the shimmer effect of MH, but depending on what you plan to keep, they are not a requirement. Most people who stay in the hobby end-up with them, so if you really see yourself in this long-term it would be cheaper in the long run to just go with halides right-off.

4) The concept of a refugium (ie. place of refuge) is really to provide a place for critters to multiply without being eaten. I know what you're getting at though - these days, it's pretty much taken for granted that people will be using their "fuge" to grow macros, put extra live rock, live sand, etc to increase system volume, nutrient export and filtration. The short answer is - they're nice to have, but optional. Some of the best tanks I've ever seen don't have one.

5) Never tried that, but it looks like it could sure save you a few bucks. I'd probably still want to seed the system with a few pieces of real live rock.

6) I'd say open top, or at the very least, a well ventilated canopy. If you plan to have fish that are notorious jumpers, covered is better. Open top is more convenient when you have to work on the tank though, and it's easier to keep the tank cool with evaporative cooling (chillers are pricey and generally loud).

You're already ahead of the game by researching first - good job! :wink:

Don't forget to check out our library. Here's a guide you might find helpful: http://www.reefs.org/library/newbieguide.htm

HTH and welcome aboard...

 

[Anonymous]

Hello and welcome!

You got some great answers already, but I was a newbie once and know you want as many opinions as possible:

1. I would have skipped the canister and hang on wet/dry filtration and planned on having a skimmer even if that meant putting the tank in another location in my living room. Now it is too late, I cannot move the tank and have no room for a skimmer.
2. no experience, i wont comment
3. If you can afford it, go MH. I had pc's, bought the mh, and what a difference! Not only health of the tank I feel, but the way everything looks...the shimmer etc. So I spent $250 on pcs a while ago, and bought the mh just recently for $400. I could have saved 250.
4. I dont have a refug but I think it is a good idea. Again, I have no room, Im stuck with what I got for now, but next tank will definately have one. As far as water quality, I dont think it is a quality issue as much as a stability issue. More water volume equals a more stable system. A sump/fuge allows you to hide heaters and other equipment, allows an area for cooling if need, and is a great place to dose or change water out in.
5. No personal experience, but have seen some nice designs with this method! Read all you can, I remeber someone saying it throws calcium or something off unless it is curte or something for a couple of months....again, no personal experience so cant really help ya.
6. Open top allows for gas exchange, keeps the tank cooler if thats a problem, and i kinda like looking down into it too! I tried egg crate, and couldnt beleive how much light it cut out! So now i have a completely open top. Either way, make sure you keep the water at top moving.

Hope that helps. There are awesome knowledgeable people here, so ask anything anytime and someone will have some good responses. Good luck!

 

[fishfanatic2]

Everyone post before bob gets in here! :wink:

1)Start right from the beginning, as if you try to cheap on skimming or lighting, you'll probably end up upgrading and spending more money. It's much easier to do things right the first time (bet you've heard that one alot!)
2)Personally a 2-3" sandbed works for me, but whatever suits you. Both have pros and cons, so it's up to you.
3)Use MH if you can afford, they are better than fluoresscent since they are powerful and give light from a point-source, simulating the sun. They are rather expensive but the corals will benefit.
4)Refugiums are a nice thing to have and certainly can't hurt, but they are not the end-all cure-all, as some one person in particular on this board says. :wink: The algae in them help remove nutrients that could fuel nuisance algae in the display, and it provides a safe haven for pods and other critters to multiply and feed the tank.
5)Dont know.
6)I prefer open top, while it causes much more evaporation, you get maximum light output, salt doesn't build up, better gas exchange, and less of a hassle to get in the tank if you need. The risk is that some fish are more inclined to jump out, and top off can get annoying and is something you want to stay on top of, especially in the winter when the air is dry and the water evaporates faster.

GL HTH!

 

[RShort]

Thanks for the imput everyone. Seems like there are all kinds of good ideas, just have to figure out what works for yourself I reckon. It might fry my brain figuring this all out, BUT it will be done! :lol:
Another question or 2 or 100 8O .

How much light for a 75? You hear to go by watts per gallon, then others say watts to surface area. Will 150's penetrate enough? Do I need 175's, 250's, 400's, 80,000,000's :wink: ? Do MH need to be supplemented with the blue actinics(which means more $ and area taken up on top of tank)? What kelvin rating on the MH? I know I would need 2 MH's, should both be the same kelvin?

Would I be better off having tank drilled for overflow and closed loop circulation? If so, how do you tell if tank glass is tempured or not? I know you can't drill tempured.

I am sure I will come up with more questions during this research phase and again I do appreciate all the imput !
Thanks.

 

[flanders]

So I wanted to chime in a bit as I just started a SW tank 6 months ago and I messed up a few things , hopefully my screw ups can help you


plan your fish. Put together a list of what you want and look into each species so that you know if they can exist together or if your tank could sustain them. Do the same for any invertebrates. This is a good way to help understand the requirements of your tank.


Quarantine any and all fish before you put them in your tank. My biggest issue had to do with an early fish purchase that introduced ICK into my tank and once it is in there it is nigh impossible to get it out without tearing your system down. I bought a 120 buck self contained 12 gallon that had everything but a heaterm i use this to quarentine and stick it in the closet when I am done.

2 heaters are better then one.. had a cold day drop my tank temp 5 degrees in 8 hours and lost many fish over it

Same for cooling. Make sure where ever you put it that you can keep it at a good temp or you can afford a chiller

Drill he tank if you can. A sump is a wonderful thing and although you can get hang on overflow containers.. they are not as good.

Keep the tank away from a window. You want complete control over lighting

Plan for the largest sump you can manage. Just the extra water capacity and the option for a large skimmer is reason enough.. and it lets you decide on a refrugium later

Get the halide lights. Unless you are sure you will never want an invert that requires strong lighting get them now.. to echo everyone else you will save money. when I finally get my halide lights my 260 50/50 setup will go on ebay or be stuck in the closet.

Same with the skimmer. Don’t skimp here you will pay twice.

Find a good LFS. This is a tough one as the store may be great but they may have a different philosophy then you. My first store was all about wet/dry systems so every time I asked a question or looked at a setup they had it was based on a style that differed for the more natural setup I eventually decided on. I finally found a store that had several glorious reef setups I could learn from.

RO/DI unit… unless your tap water is already excellent this is an invaluable tool for controlling what goes into your tank.

i have DSB and it is fine.. their is a huge debate over these and in the end i just decided i liked the look of sand. BUT they suck oxugen fast. 4-5 hours with poor circulation or a power outage and your fish will suffocate. (lost 3 fish this way)

dont get blue leg hermits. (this is debatable but i have never seen mine do anyting but kill my snails and each other)


Keep in mind I am still learning and there are lots of people here who have a lot more experience then me, but above are some of the things that tripped me up…..

 

[Anonymous]

I'll hit your second question. For a 75 dual 250 waht halides would give you the untimate flexability without dumping lots of heat into your tank. You could or could not supplament with actinic VHO, PC or T-5. That would be a perconal choise. Thier are some nice 14k bulbs out ther that do not require actinic to look nice. I would put both buls the same color. Personally I would not want to look at a tank that was different from side to side. If you can get the tank drilled or invest in a new drlled tank. In the grand scheam of things the tank is one of the cheaper components for a tank of this size.

 

[ChrisRD]

My $0.02...

How much light for a 75? You hear to go by watts per gallon, then others say watts to surface area.

IMO watts-per-gallon is a pretty useless guideline. If you have a coral sitting in a ten gallon tank under a 250 watt lamp or it's sitting in a 100 gallon tank under the same lamp, it will get the same amount of light provided it is the same distance from the lamp (of course we're not considering other variables like water clarity, reflectors, etc.). The "watts-per-gallon" of either setup would be drastically different though...

If you're going with halides, IMO 150 watt DEs or 175 watt Moguls are fine for a mixed tank. You just need to keep the more light demading stuff in the upper parts of the tank. If you're going to be interested in higher light species (ie. some SPS corals, Tridacna clams, most anemones, etc.) you'll be better-off going with 250 watters. I agree with Waz that 250s give you the most flexibility. Moguls or DE both work fine - I prefer DE myself (more compact pendents, usually more efficient reflectors too).

Do MH need to be supplemented with the blue actinics(which means more $ and area taken up on top of tank)?

It's not necessary, but many people like the look (flouresces stuff nicely). Also, the actinics provide some additional useable light for the photosynthetic critters.

What kelvin rating on the MH? I know I would need 2 MH's, should both be the same kelvin?

Most people today prefer something in the 10K to 20K range. If you prefer a bright white look 10Ks will do. If you want a blue tint, 10K + actinics or 14K lamps with/without actinics is nice. If you like a bluish look, the 20K lamps (no actinics needed) are very popular.

Would I be better off having tank drilled for overflow and closed loop circulation? If so, how do you tell if tank glass is tempured or not? I know you can't drill tempured.

I recommend drilling the tank for a drain and avoiding the use of a hang-on overflow. Closed loops are nice, but optional IMO as there are many ways to get the circulation you need. If you're not sure what you want to do, you can always get the bulkheads drilled/installed now - then you have the option of using them (or not) in the future.

HTH

 

[Mihai]

I am a newbie to SW. I have kept FW tank for over 20 years. I have decided to take the plunge into SW. I have a 75 gal tank I am going to switch over. Here are some questions I have:
1.) What would you do if you had the opportunity to start this tank up?

I would not buy anything before I would read at least two good books about setting up saltwater tanks - say Conscientious Aquarist by Fenner and the book of coral propagation by A. Calfo.

2.) Have checked into both sides of plenum DSB versus no plenum, what do you think and why?

I have a DSB but I wish for a 1-2" (for looks and health of the tank). I can do my denitrification in the sump and many other places - it takes too much space in my display and is less than very nice to look at.

3.)I want a reef tank with corals, inverts, and some fish. What lighting would you use, VHO, PC, MH, T-5's and why?

MH for efficiency - you can get the same light out of T5, but at more Watts and more money per bulb/year.

4.)Do refugium's make that much differance in tank quality, if so why?

There are so many ways to setup a refugium that the answer is: "It depends". Read Calfo's book, he has a pretty good breakdown on this issue. (short answer - it may make a difference in water quality, but also in other things, say pod population).

5.)Have done some research. Am intersested in making my own aragocrete rocks. Has anyone done this, and if so, what were the results?(see GARF.org)
6.)Open top or closed top and why?

Not enough experience to answer this.

Am taking it slow and trying to get multiple opinions and would appreciate any and all input. Doing lots of research and reading. I want to get this right, especially with the monetary investment required.

Excellent! I got my tank before knowing enough and I paid about $600 for a setup that I threw almost all away (except for the stand and tank). Luckly it stopped here.

My advice is to use this board to get info and reefcentral (RC) to buy used equipment - you'll be able to make quality purchases at 1/2 the price of retail, and from rdo get quality answers.

You're on the right track, it's refreshing to see a post like yours (see the other guy with the flowerpot coral just next to this post).

All the best,
Mihai

 

[RShort]

Thanks again for all the input!

What type of stocking suggestions do you nice people have? I am interested in establishing a mixed reef system with 2 250 watt MH with unkown wattage as of yet. Like color and movement. Want lovers, not fighters :lol: LOL. Make your most wanted list for a 75 gal. tank.
Thanks again.

 

[Mihai]

2 x clownfish (pair) + a compatible annemone are a sight to behold
2 x mandarinfish (pair) are also great
I don't know about the rest.
M.

 

[packman9111]

2.) Have checked into both sides of plenum DSB versus no plenum, what do you think and why?

My LFS always says, "unless you want a nitrate factory, use more than 3" or less than 1"" My new tank has been set up for about 4 months and I can second try not to skimp on skimmer and pumps.

I went vho route (I have a 30" deep) and will probably upgrade to MH at some point. I already have run across some things I want (anenome) and have to worry about light.

I went with a sump in the basement and love it. I don't have to worry about where my kalk dripper is and what it looks like. Don't have to worry bout how loud the pump is.

Tank is drilled (diy) with 2 homemade overflows. I have two over the top closed loops and might have rather them drilled (the pipes are ugly) but they're fine for functionality.

good luck - Rick

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again for all the input!

What type of stocking suggestions do you nice people have? I am interested in establishing a mixed reef system with 2 250 watt MH with unkown wattage as of yet. Like color and movement. Want lovers, not fighters :lol: LOL. Make your most wanted list for a 75 gal. tank.
Thanks again.

The best way to handle a livestock question is to make a list of "must haves" both fish and coral. If you plan your tank around say a mandarin fish as a must have, find out what does the fish need to thrive-not just survive! If you want a clowfish pair and anemone combo, find out what lighting, etc is best for them.

Best place to look at many different pictures of fish and types of coral? Online retailers....hit the RDO sponsor page and start drooling:

http://www.reefs.org/sponsor.html But, a word of caution online sellers sometimes have (ahem) questionable data about fish compatability, needs etc but it's a good place to start. Once you narrow your choices down, you can use the search feature on this board to see what others have posted.

I also second or third the book recommendations, Fenner and Calfo IMO are great resources.