New Reef Tank Plan - What Do You Think?

[Arokh]

Ok, I'm new to saltwater, but I think I'm ready to take the plunge.

Using my own research, tips from my sister (if Dr. Doolittle had a wife, she'd be it), and keeping budget and future daughter in mind, here's what I have.

Phase 1:
46 Gallon Top Fin (PetSmart) bowfront aquarium, canopy, light strip, and stand.
50 LBs of live rock from www.saltwaterfish.com.
20 LBs of live sand.
20 LBs of regular/calcium sand (I forget what my sister called it, araginite or something).
Water conditioner (again, sister said to use something called Prime).
Enough salt to make 50 gallons of saltwater.
Water test kit.
Hydrometer.
Grounding probe (do I really need this?).
Heater.
Cheapie protein skimmer.
1 power head.
Basic single light bulb (stock light hood only has one socket).

Phase 1 will last several weeks until the water becomes stable.

Phase 2:
2 Juvi Percula Clown Fish
2 Green Chromis
Coral banded shrimp.
Maybe a small red star fish.
Cleaner wrasse.
Several small "cleaner" snails.
Maybe a few hermit crabs & shells.
Fish food.

Phase 2 will last several weeks/months because sticker shock will probably be creeping in by now.

Phase 3:
Upgraded light hood and bulbs, high output or whatever.
Various corals/anemones.
Higher quality protein skimmer.
Maybe another power head.

Now I know this probably isn't the most ideal setup, true enthusiasts think "bigger is better" but there are several considerations:

1. We don't have a LOT of room to put an aquarium. The 46 gallon bowfront lets us put it in a footprint similar to a 29/38 gallon, but get more surface depth for a more stable reef.

2. We don't have a TON of money either. We have a daughter due in March so we can't justify spending $5k+. This setup will probably cost us about $3k by the end of phase 3, that's more than enough.

3. I've thought about a sump, but the idea of a toddler having close access to the sump bothers me. I'd rather have to go from the top to clean out the protein skimmer.

So with that, I also have a few questions:

1. Are Top Fin aquariums OK? I've always used All-Glass but the Top Fin has an attractive price. Are they strong enough to hold the weight of the water+sand+live rock?

2. I've read that you are supposed to use a layer of styrofoam between the tank and the stand. Is that true even if the aquarium has the plastic frame on the bottom (that elevates the bottom glass up about 1/2")? If so, do you put the styrofoam under the frame, or just inside of it (between the stand and the bottom glass)?

3. Do I really need a grounding probe? Will the water become charged? I probably wouldn't have ever thought about it but we don't want baby getting shocked.

4. I don't love the idea of using subpar lights right away, but if the live rock and fish can live with it for a few months, that'll help the wallet. I'll definitely get the upgraded hood and bulbs before I do anemones and corals, but not right away. Besides, PetSmart does not sell the aquarium without the stock hood, so I might as well use it to start. Will this work?

5. How big of a heater do I need?

6. I mentioned a cheapie protein skimmer. Yes I know, I need to spend upwards of $200 for a good one, but if I can live with the $40 PetSmart cheapie until phase 3, that will also help the wallet. Will this work?

I don't intend to become obsessed with the hobby. I've been there, done that with reptiles and I don't want to go back. I just want a nice fish tank with neat critters in it to entertain me, my wife, our baby, our dog, and our cat.

What do you think?

 

[cjsrch]

bad idea to get a cheepie skimmer even if it is just temporary.
get what you want to begin with so you dont waste money cause that 40 bucks could be put towrds say.. an even better skimmer?


" a small red star fish" there are alot of stars that are color red. and stars can be harder to keep then coral. save this for last

i know alot of people will say im wrong but ill say this anyways.... its either you spend alot and have some work or you spend alil and work alot


sumps are a good idea ( you can always lock the stand) and better then a sump is a refuge


also for the powerhead dont let the lfs talk you into the powersweep. ( petsmartt seems to favor those) they will usualy quit in saltwater


for flow in your tank try to achive around 500 gph or more

and remember. DONT TRUST THE FISHSTORE

 

[Drew Nietert]

Phase 1: Sounds Good. 50Lbs fits neatly between the 1-1.75lbs per gallon.

Water Conditioner? I would double check this as many will make your skimmer skim constantly. I did the same with tap water for the first six months of my tank. I used the Yellow Bottled stuff, forgot what is was called. Doing that worked fine for me until I added a skimmer and started my first venture with coral.

Sounds like a good starting kit as well.

This tank, is it reef ready? Reef ready isn’t an absolute, but for the few extra dollars you get a better looking tank without all the hank on stuff and that makes putting lights on easier (more space) as well as maintaining filter media.

Phase 2:
Your not going to add all this stock at once?
And you should add some cheap fish (like Damsels) during phase one to start your tank cycling.

Phase three – Many questions will arise by that time and too many to answer now.

Your specific questions:
1. Top Fin: Very attractive price – no personal experience but my LFS sells them and only recommends them to casual aquarist.

2. The question of money – My experience says set a budget and don’t go over. I have a 30 Gallon LRFO, and in the last two years I have spent $1500 or so on it. The last month I turned it into a reef aquarium and with the 6 corals I purchased and some misc stuff I have spent $500. Coral Tanks are much more expensive and require much more consistent water checks/changes/quality. My LRFO tank could easily go for over a month and everything was great. But with the expense of Corals I don’t plan on waiting over two weeks, and weekly is the plan. More than money is the time consideration. The better the filtration, patience in setting up, the less work.

3. I agree with Cirsch again, lock the cabinet, I don’t have a sumb. Made my own cabinet and I only have ~9” of width and nothing will fit properly under the tank. My maintenance is killing me.

4. Subpar lights are fine to start with. Fish don’t care (some species have better color with proper lighting though). Live rock will be fine without better lighting as well.

5. Heater – depends on how cold you keep your house. Our house is kept at 72. I have a 150Watt heater for my 30 Gallon Tank. Many recommend two. If one dies, the other one will keep the water temp from dropping dramatically. If you go that way two 100’s or 150’s should be fine. Otherwise I would go with a single 200Watt.

6. I agree with Cjsrch, don’t buy the cheapy skimmer. First, unless you have a lot of fish or coral, you don’t need it to begin with. Second, I have experimented with the cheap skimmers and they are a whole lot of work. Specifically I have tried the Red Sea Skimmer (Prism) at $119 and I have to adjust it constantly- by that I mean every 2-3 days.

BTW: I am not an expert, about 3 years total experience in the hobby is all.

 

[Arokh]

What does it mean to be reef ready? You see, I live in Minnesota, and apparently nobody in Minnesota sets up reef tanks (end sarcasm). But seriously, I've never seen an aquarium that said "reef ready" on it.

There is one store that might carry them, but it's at least an hour drive from me.

Is All-Glass better? Petco carries a similar All-Glass aquarium but I don't remember if it was more expensive.

 

[Drew Nietert]

Reef ready simply means that a hole is cut in the bottom of the tank for use with a sump, wet/dry filter, refugium. Since water can exit that way, you have access to all filtration underneath the tank. The heater can be under the tank as well.

My 30 Gallon has the Protient Skimmer, the Biowheel and my Canister filter hanging off the back. So I see all the stuff comming in from the top down to half way - 3/4 of the way. Also my heater is in the tank - the returns are also in the tank. This makes the back of my tank look like plumping, well because it is.

With a reef tank, all that plumbing can be down below. You can easily spot a reef tank as well because they will typically have a black partition in the corner or middle.

Also, since my aquarium is against the wall and I have 200watts of light and a custom top (I built so it is hard to use) I have to take the top off, then remove each of the filters to change out media or clean. If it is under the tank I hear it is much easier.

 

[Arokh]

I don't think anybody sells a reef-ready 46 gallon bowfront. Even if I upgraded to an Oceanic, their "reef ready" doesn't start until 75 gallons.

Can you buy universal "corners" to hide the skimmer/heater/power heads? The tank still wouldn't be drilled, but it would look a little nicer.

 

[Drew Nietert]

That's a great idea. I haven't seen it but if you can't you should use some Plexiglass and Silcon to make your own. But that would be a lot of work, drilling the hole for water flow - but if your a DIY, that would help the look greatly.

 

[Arokh]

Surfin the interweb, I found this site:

http://home.satx.rr.com/fumanchu/

That's pretty much what I want to do. It doesn't look like this tank is reef ready (or is it? I see the gadgets) and it looks OK.

 

[Drew Nietert]

And it looks great
When a tank looks this good it is easy to overlook the plumbing.

But this tank I would guess has more than 3K invested in it. Maybe not though.

 

[Arokh]

The whole idea of reef-ready seems to add a level of complexity that I frankly don't want to get into. Yeah, it looks better, but we are going to be so engulfed with the critters and fish that we wouldn't even notice anyway.

As soon as I win the lottery and buy a bigger house, I would love to build a very large system with a sump. But baby steps...

BTW, Top Fin = Perfecto, Perfecto = MarineLand.

Not sure if Perfecto Vs. All-Glass makes a difference. As long as one of the two is built sturdy enough to handle the weight of the water+live rock+sand. I'll check with Petco tomorrow, but I think they are just about the same price between PetSmart (Perfecto) and Petco (AGA).

Lastly, what's the story with the grounding probe?

Thanks so much for your help! We're finally ready (literally after 6+ months of research) to start buying equipment. Hopefully within the month we'll even have a few critters in there!

 

[cjsrch]

it isnt a matter of looks with RR tanks RR tanks have the black things there to keep the fish from getting into the hole in the bottom that leads to sump and to maintain the waterlevel

i regret not doing this as it has made plumbing hell

they also make surface skimmers with utubes for tanks that arnt drilled ( anotherway to get water to a sump)

a sump just maked life really easy and it dosnt cost that much ( 10 gallon tank and a pump)
and its a nice place to put everything so you have easy acsess.
sounds like you really want to do a hang on back only setup.

but like i said befor get what you really want not what hurts the walet least. otherwise you will regret it and end up getting it eventualy anyways. ( and that means you spend more in the longrun)

now any thoughts on what skimmers you want to use?

 

[cjsrch]

id recomend a tunze ( nano is only 130 somthing bucks.. but id recomend a bigger size)
out of all the skimmers iv seen the only one i like more then the tunze is a downdraft skimmer


"Thanks so much for your help! We're finally ready (literally after 6+ months of research) to start buying equipment. Hopefully within the month we'll even have a few critters in there!"
i know how you feel
if you ever read anything about my setup youll find that i jumped into hobby tofast ( wanted experiance in hobby for the job i had at lfs) and i hated my tank. i wasnt happy with the setup altho it was able to keep alive alot of stuff that the other guys who worked there couldent ( beautiful bta anenome) anyways i spent 6 ish month researching for new tank... and i spent another 6months setting it up my new tank still has nothing in it O_O but im happy with the setup except the bowing of the tank ( its not a bow front yet it bows)

just take everything slow and dont ass daNMsuls unless you plan on keeping them. for several reasons 1 its mean to use them to cycle a tank and then pass them on to some one who will use them for that same reason again ( most likely) and 2 hard as heck to catch!!!!

btw if ya wanna see my tank click the link in my signiture

 

[ChrisRD]

Hi Arokh and :welcome:

...as to your questions...

1. I have never owned a Top Fin aquarium. AGA and Oceanic are good. Perfecto is OK. If the Top Fins are made by and are as good as Perfecto I think you'll be OK. If you have the option I'd go with AGA over the Top Fin.

2. When you're talking about glass tanks with the bottom trim it's not necessary to use the foam (it won't touch the bottom anyway). Some people still do and it won't hurt. Either way would be fine.

3. The grounding probe thing is an on-going debate. If you do a search I think you'll find it's been discussed here before. IMO they're worth having. I recommend getting yourself a GFI as well.

4. Fish and live rock will be fine under lesser lighting.

5. Depends on ambient temps and heater style but 150 to 200 watts should be enough for that size tank. With certain hang-on skimmers like the AquaC Remora you can hide the heater in the output chamber of the skimmer so you don't have to look at it in the tank.

6. I would avoid trying to get away cheap on the skimmer. Invest in a quality skimmer and make sure you have a pure source of freshwater for making-up new saltwater and topping-off evaportation (ie. distilled, RO, DI, RO/DI, etc.).

Also, I strongly recommend you do NOT use Damsels for cycling the tank. This is an outdated and unnecessary practice. Many Damsel species are notorious for getting very aggressive as they mature and are difficult to remove from an established aquarium once added. The live rock will provide all the organics and bacteria you need in regard to the nitrogen cycle. I also recommend you skip the idea of a cleaner wrasse. Most species that I know of do not do well long term in captivity.

As for future - if you're interested in an anemone, I strongly recommend waiting until you have some experience under your belt and then going with a captive propagated BTA.

HTH

 

[ChrisRD]

Also, don't forget to check out our library for useful info and references:

http://www.reefs.org/library/newbieguide.htm

http://www.reefs.org/library/reading/beginner/beginner.html

 

[Anonymous]

Doublecheck to make sure the electrical circuits you are going to use are protected by GFCI. If not then definately add that to your Things to do First list.

 

[Drew Nietert]

Also, I strongly recommend you do NOT use Damsels for cycling the tank. This is an outdated and unnecessary practice. Many Damsel species are notorious for getting very aggressive as they mature and are difficult to remove from an established aquarium once added. The live rock will provide all the organics and bacteria you need in regard to the nitrogen cycle. I also recommend you skip the idea of a cleaner wrasse. Most species that I know of do not do well long term in captivity.

Excellent to know, I still thought you needed something for the bacteria to feed on.

 

[Anonymous]

Also, I strongly recommend you do NOT use Damsels for cycling the tank. This is an outdated and unnecessary practice. Many Damsel species are notorious for getting very aggressive as they mature and are difficult to remove from an established aquarium once added. The live rock will provide all the organics and bacteria you need in regard to the nitrogen cycle. I also recommend you skip the idea of a cleaner wrasse. Most species that I know of do not do well long term in captivity.

Excellent to know, I still thought you needed something for the bacteria to feed on.

The live rock will probably contribute all the nutrients required. If you're still doubtful then just feeding the food that you would have fed the damsels will feed bacteria just as well as that same food after being processed by the Damsels

 

[cindre2000]

I agree that you should really consider getting a reef ready tank with overflows. Not only will it make that tank more attractive, it will make maintinance easier. And after a couple months, or sooner, you will really begin to appreciate all the equipment that makes your job easier.

*cough*autotopoff*cough*ro/di*cough* :wink:

Sumps are barely more complicated than a normal tub/tank full of water; except that you now have a place to top of the tank, hide equipment, add medications, and possibly keep critters (refugium section). A basic glass tank is all the sump is. And as cjsrch said, you can install a lock really easily.


Something that I found is especially helpful when you are on a budget, is to go to a true fish store, not petsmart, pets supplies plus, etc. You are more likely to find what you want, and often, you can get discounts when you buy a complete system. You should get online or look in the phone book (even asking employees of the other stores works) to find the various stores in your area, then call them and check to see what deals they have. Then you can drive twice; once to check the store out and speak with them in person, and once to purchase the items.

For example, I purchased a 125 gallon complete set-up (sumps, PC lights, etc) minus protien skimmer, for a mere $2100. In the end, I plan on only spending around $3000 from various University funds.

A second budget tip: Buy online. Spend a little time and start looking at the prices of equipment you want online; don't forget to add shipping. You should also compare that to the price at the realy LFS you find. Ebay for example is a good place to get cheap live rock, often times it can be as low as $3/lb (don't get overnight shipping for rock, it will last a few days). Excellent protein skimmers as well as good powerheads are often cheaper online. I would never spend $30-40 on a powerhead if i can get it for $15.

About grounding probes. I have never had a problem in my tanks, however, if you plan on having a whole lot of electronics in the tank, it is a worthwhile investment.

Good luck!

 

[cindre2000]

Oh, I almost forgot. Rather than spend $30+ on what is sold as 'live sand', just get the normal dry sand. Rinse it, then add it. Finally, get some real live sand from a reefer in your area, or from one of the stores tanks (I bought mine on ebay). You get more critters and save a bunch of money.

You can do the same with rock unless you find cheaper live rock on the internet which i find is always the case for me.

Also, you can sometimes save hundreds of dollars if you just get what you need when you begin with. I would have spent $40 more dollars on cheap lights if I had bought what came with the tank (another benefit of a real LFS, you can mix and match). May not seem like much; however, every little bit counts if you can afford it.