cleaner package advice

[Capslock]

Hello,

I am looking at cleaner pacakges at this point; the algea bloom i am nearly certain happened since a lot of hair algea has spread over all the rocks.

anyways, so I bought a package from dr. foster and smith yesterday for eating detritus; there is a lot of it: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=482

The minimum was for a 55 gallon tank.
Now I am looking at a snail/crab package for the algea the problem I have is I have a 46gal tank.

Do i go for a package that is designed for a slightly smaller tank (30gal) or a slightly larger tank (55gal)

keep in mind the sump ads about 5 gal to the overall water quantity so I have a bit over 50 gal of water.

IDK if I will also buy this package from foster and smith as well but I have my eye on this pacakgehttp://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=520

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[metalac]

I'd go with the smaller one since they over do it anyways. In my 55 gallon I have 6 snails 3 crabs and one lawnmower bleny and they take care of algae just fine. I'd also recommend you hand pick large bunches of algae, just so your skimmer/filter doesn't have to deal with it.

 

[Capslock]

metalac,

thanks for the quick info.

Ok on the small package, worst comes to worst i can always go down to the LFS and get more if ever needed.

The filters on the other hand...I have a sump but right now nothing in it - the live rock itself is currently the only filter I have at the moment - it is going pretty well in terms of levels - we will see how it goes.

 

[metalac]

you're going to be needing a skimmer if you want to get rid of that algae bloom. My skimmer had TONS of green crap in it, dead algae I assume. It will also remove the stuff that algae feeds on.

But i think the small package will be plenty, they do a definite overkill on those packages . Some even recommend 1-2 snails per gallon which is CRAZYYY.

 

[Capslock]

i have actually been told by someone that 1 invertebrate per gallon is about normal; i see you disagree. I do not really know what is right to be honest.

 

[mr_X]

first of all, i don't think you should buy a tigertail cucumber until your tank is atleast a few months older. it will most likely starve to death in your tank. the same goes for the sand sifting star. if you have a deep sand bed that you want to utilize as part of your overall biological filter, those creatures will destroy it's filtration qualities and render the sand dead.

as for the "algae attack pack", i'd get the smallest one. 25 hermit crabs is more than enough IMO. if anything, i'd get 20 snails and skip the hermits...or just get a couple for looks. hermits don't do much in the way of noticable algae removal anyway. snails are MUCH more efficient, and they don't kill other things in the tank, either. :wink:

 

[mr_X]

i have actually been told by someone that 1 invertebrate per gallon is about normal; i see you disagree. I do not really know what is right to be honest.

well, 50 snails in a 50 gallon tank is a bit more than you need, not to mention the tank will look ugly with 50 snails on the glass 8O

the algae blooms are part of the new tank settling in. if you practice proper husbandry- using R.O., regular water changes, a good skimmer, the proper lighting with the right bulbs, not overfeeding, good flow, siphoning out the larger stuff like hair and cyano....
the algae blooms will leave as fast as they came.

i doubt very highly that the 10 snails, 2 tiny hermits, and 2 emerald crabs are defeating the algae before it gets out of hand in my 200 gallon tank.

 

[Mthompson]

I am currently on the tail end of my battle nuisance algae (I hope at least). I manually removed all the algae I could for 2 week, and used a toothbrush to scrub the rocks off in the buckets of water I removed for water changes. You might not be able to do this if you have a lot of rock, but it worked really well at keeping the rock bare for coraline algae to colonize.

For plucking the hair algae clumps, just get a bowl of freshwater from the tap and place it within arms reach of the tank. The get yourself something to stand on and start plucking. Pluck a bit off, then dunk your hand in the freshwater to remove the strands. I found that moving slowly prevented any major currents from blowing it all over the place.

I would go with just turbo snails. I had 10 hermits and they didn't eat a darn thing but excess feed (no algae). I got 5 snails over the weekend, and a lawnmower blenny (in a 120gal). The snails have cleaned most of the glass, and the lawnmower is pretty good at 'mowing' the rocks.

Oh, and get some chaeto or other macro algae in the sump, this will help you out by out-competing the nuisance algae for the excess nutrients (nitrates and phosphates) in your tank. Then when you notice the macro algae getting bigger, just tear some off and toss it out (or sell it to a LFS if the will give store credit or whatever).

 

[Entacmaea]

Hey Capslock, just want to echo the advice already given here- your tank will benefit from a skimmer, it is a good purchase- and one not to skimp on. I would buy one now, hold off on adding any janitors(or only add a few right now), and see how your tank stabilizes over the next month or two, before observing what levels of algae you might still have. Then, I would add a few cleaners at a time (sticking with snails as Mr. X advises). I think that most "packages" that places sell are wildly too large, and once an initial wave of clean-up is done, 50-75% of the critters starve to death. Mr. X's tank, a 200g, has a fraction of the package you are proposing to add, for instance (no doubt it has a good skimmer, and some herbivorous fish as well).

If you can buy cleaners a few at a time from a LFS, that is a great idea. If not, I would try either www.etropicals.com (where you can order smaller amounts of more varied snails in their Build-Your-Own packages, for instance) or www.ipsf.com, which has captive bred specimens and other good critters to add diversity to your sand/tank, though ipsf is more pricey.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Peter

 

[Capslock]

Thanks for all of the input.

I agree that this cleaning package may be a bit overkill if it will eat all of the algae. If that were to happen then yes I suppose I would really need a protein skimmer to make up for the difference.

I do not intend on buying a skimmer at this point since, I have concluded that it would be best to wait until my budget allows for a high quality skimmer.

At the same time, I would imagine that if the algae and other futsutsers were maintained at a certain level, a skimmer would not be necessary But that goes back to agree that this package might be too much.

What are your thoughts?

 

[mr_X]

i don't think you can substitute nutrient export with more eating, pooping animals.

 

[Capslock]

thats a good point. It is self sustaining now but who knows what it would be like once the tank has a substantial bio load.

Off topic - is the protein skimmer going to add a significant amount of noise to the tank? Its already loud as it is; which is fine since I am used to it but in terms of having guests over - i dont want to have it over bearing.

 

[metalac]

thats a good point. It is self sustaining now but who knows what it would be like once the tank has a substantial bio load.

Off topic - is the protein skimmer going to add a significant amount of noise to the tank? Its already loud as it is; which is fine since I am used to it but in terms of having guests over - i dont want to have it over bearing.

it all depends on the pump you choose for it. My skimmer is almost dead silent, on the other hand my light fans are ridiculous, I'm going to have them replaced. Which part of your tank is the loudest?

 

[mr_X]

Off topic - is the protein skimmer going to add a significant amount of noise to the tank? Its already loud as it is; which is fine since I am used to it but in terms of having guests over - i dont want to have it over bearing.

it depends on the skimmer pump, as stated. i can't hear my ASM at all. the only thing i hear is my mag24 return.

 

[Capslock]

id say at this point in order of the loudest sounding

-fans for light on 10k bulb
-mag9 pump - might be a smidge louder now that i turned it down a wee bit
-water flow

 

[metalac]

id say at this point in order of the loudest sounding

-fans for light on 10k bulb
-mag9 pump - might be a smidge louder now that i turned it down a wee bit
-water flow

so for fans what I'm doing is getting brand new computer fans instead of the crappy ones that came with the light. I'm replacing one loud one that I have now with two fans rated at around 23db, which is more than quiet.

I also have mag9 pump that was making some noise, mostly vibration, so I bough some silicone door stops at Home Depot and placed it under the pump in order to isolate it from rest of the tank as much as possible. The ones I got were sticky, so I basically cut off the glue part in order not to contaminate my water.

As far as the water flow there are durso tubes as well as the AquaSilencer: http://home.nc.rr.com/stockmanreef/aquasilencer.htm

I will build one myself as soon as I get time to get into the machine shop and do it right

 

[PezJunkie]

so for fans what I'm doing is getting brand new computer fans instead of the crappy ones that came with the light. I'm replacing one loud one that I have now with two fans rated at around 23db, which is more than quiet.

Apologies for contributing to the threadjack here...

Computer fans sound like a decent idea if your light fixture is already setup to use 12 volt DC fans.

 

[Nemo2007]

As Mr. X said, I would strongly advise against the sand sifting star. As it turns out, most echinoderms don't make good reef aquarium additions. From what I've read, the best additions are tiny starfish and brittle stars that max out at less than an inch or so.
My personal experience with sand sifting stars resulted in depletion of the microfauna in my live sand followed by the slow starvation of the starfish itself. That takes about a 12 to 18 months to happen in my experience. Slow enough to make you think some other process is going on as the starfish starts to loose legs. This species gets pushed big time by pet stores as a detrivore, which I'm not sure it is, and a way to keep the sand bed stirred. The latter will be accomplished but at the cost mentioned above.

 

[Capslock]

Nemo,

I understand what you and mr. X are saying here. I did end up getting the packages though; we will see what happens.

It is actually pretty interesting, literally the DAY i put in the snails and crabs the real algae bloom happened. Apparently I mis-understood what this algae bloom really meant.

Oh well though, I am quite happy it happened the way it did, not those snails have plenty to eat.

About the sand sifting star - that little gal is only about an inch like you said.
Now the package also came with this serpent star which is doing a bang up job eating junk. I will keep in mind what you said about everything i will be eaten and then they will die in about a years time; I will keep them under my close eye.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[mr_X]

the serpent will live if you make sure he gets food. you can feed him what you feed your fish basically. the sand sifter will have trouble finding dinner. plus, you've just added to your bio-load.