Juwel Vision 450 - Who's got one???
- Thread starter Thalamus
- Start date
As someone just starting out, you'd be better off going for an aquarium that is ready for marine reef keeping. That means an overflow system essentially, where there is a sump in the cabinet beneath the aquarium. There are several advantages to this, perhaps the most important one being that you can keep all the unsightly equipment out of the tank, giving you more room for coral etc and a cleaner look. It also increases your water volume slightly, increasing the stability of the tank's basic parameters.
There are ways to make a non-overflow system work (e.g. skimmers that hang on the back of the tank), but if you're planning to invest in a decent sized tank as you are, I'd want something that I'd be happy with for the long term.
Have you given some thought to all the equipment that will be needed and what your budget will be? Marine tanks tend to be a lot more expensive than freshwater tanks, so it's best to plan carefully. At the minimum you will have to first decide what sort of coral and fish you want to keep and then start doing some research into what fish are compatible with each other, which coral need what conditions etc.
As you're just starting out, I'd recommend you start with coral that are generally considered to be good beginners corals (mostly soft corals), but even if you do, you should think carefully about whether you want to work towards eventually keeping some of the more challenging corals (e.g. SPS, hard corals and, althought they're not coral they fall into this difficult category, anemones). If you do, you need to make decisions about whether you invest in very good equipment now so you don't have to replace it later, or start with better value options that might limit your choices now in terms of livestock, but enable you to see whether the hobby is right for you.
There are ways to make a non-overflow system work (e.g. skimmers that hang on the back of the tank), but if you're planning to invest in a decent sized tank as you are, I'd want something that I'd be happy with for the long term.
Have you given some thought to all the equipment that will be needed and what your budget will be? Marine tanks tend to be a lot more expensive than freshwater tanks, so it's best to plan carefully. At the minimum you will have to first decide what sort of coral and fish you want to keep and then start doing some research into what fish are compatible with each other, which coral need what conditions etc.
As you're just starting out, I'd recommend you start with coral that are generally considered to be good beginners corals (mostly soft corals), but even if you do, you should think carefully about whether you want to work towards eventually keeping some of the more challenging corals (e.g. SPS, hard corals and, althought they're not coral they fall into this difficult category, anemones). If you do, you need to make decisions about whether you invest in very good equipment now so you don't have to replace it later, or start with better value options that might limit your choices now in terms of livestock, but enable you to see whether the hobby is right for you.
Hey Ape!
You do get around don't you! :p
I have set up two sucessful marine tanks in the past - an 80 litre and a 160 litre - I don't have/need a budget, the purse strings are pretty loose! (in the region of £4k-£5k)
In the 80 litre it has a single mushroom coral - With two black/white clown fish - Royal Grammar - 5 or 6 blue legged hermit crabs - Blenny - Cleaner Shrimp - Peppermint Shrimp - Goby - Also have what we believe to be a pistol shrimp, noisy little so and so!!! I have seen him once breifly, wasn't long enough nor bright enough (he was hiding under live rock) for me to idetify him - I often find the hermit crabs have holes in their shells too! After doing a little research on pistol shrimp, it would seem he has made friends with the Goby, so I am dubious as to wether of not to remove him.
The 160 litre tank was set up for a friend, they just wanted fish and live rock. So a simple set up.
Looking into the Vision 450, I just wondered what other people have done, its more of an insperation thing if anything! Just get to know what other people are using based on what they have in their tank. I do plan to have anemones etc, so I have been researching what needs they have etc. - I specifically mentioned the Vision 450 as this seems like a good choice from a reputable manufacturer and wanted to know what mods people have made!
Excuses the spelling mistakes/grammar - I'm at work
You do get around don't you! :p
I have set up two sucessful marine tanks in the past - an 80 litre and a 160 litre - I don't have/need a budget, the purse strings are pretty loose! (in the region of £4k-£5k)
In the 80 litre it has a single mushroom coral - With two black/white clown fish - Royal Grammar - 5 or 6 blue legged hermit crabs - Blenny - Cleaner Shrimp - Peppermint Shrimp - Goby - Also have what we believe to be a pistol shrimp, noisy little so and so!!! I have seen him once breifly, wasn't long enough nor bright enough (he was hiding under live rock) for me to idetify him - I often find the hermit crabs have holes in their shells too! After doing a little research on pistol shrimp, it would seem he has made friends with the Goby, so I am dubious as to wether of not to remove him.
The 160 litre tank was set up for a friend, they just wanted fish and live rock. So a simple set up.
Looking into the Vision 450, I just wondered what other people have done, its more of an insperation thing if anything! Just get to know what other people are using based on what they have in their tank. I do plan to have anemones etc, so I have been researching what needs they have etc. - I specifically mentioned the Vision 450 as this seems like a good choice from a reputable manufacturer and wanted to know what mods people have made!
Excuses the spelling mistakes/grammar - I'm at work
That's me, all over the place. Plus with the time difference most of our US friends are just eating their breakfast/commuting to work right now.
Apologies for assuming you were just starting out. Sounds like you've plenty of experience to be deciding exactly what route you want to take in terms of stocking.
In terms of recommendations for tanks, that depends on where you're based. From your use of the £ symbol, am I right in thinking you're from the UK? Small world if so, as I am too (but living on the other side of the world in Japan).
I seem to remember from when I was living in the UK and looking into getting a tank built that one good option for an overflow system is probably to get something custom built, either through your local LFS or a well-regarded specialist. There was a well-regarded builder everyone seemed to use on Ultimate Reefs, but I can't remember his name. Windsor Aquatics? Ah yes, that was it. Here's a link.
http://www.windsor-aquatics.co.uk/
If you're based in the South East of the UK, particularly Kent, STM (Sevenoaks Tropic Marine) is worth a trip. They're knowledgeable and sell a range of ready built overflow systems from what I remember. Plus they have really decent stock for the UK.
http://www.stm-shop.co.uk/index.html
All these recommendations are based on memory of what I read while I was living in the UK last, when unfortunately I didn't have a tank, so no direct experience. Might be worth doing some research on Ultimate Reef if you need to get recommendations on the best tank option in the UK.
Apologies for assuming you were just starting out. Sounds like you've plenty of experience to be deciding exactly what route you want to take in terms of stocking.
In terms of recommendations for tanks, that depends on where you're based. From your use of the £ symbol, am I right in thinking you're from the UK? Small world if so, as I am too (but living on the other side of the world in Japan).
I seem to remember from when I was living in the UK and looking into getting a tank built that one good option for an overflow system is probably to get something custom built, either through your local LFS or a well-regarded specialist. There was a well-regarded builder everyone seemed to use on Ultimate Reefs, but I can't remember his name. Windsor Aquatics? Ah yes, that was it. Here's a link.
http://www.windsor-aquatics.co.uk/
If you're based in the South East of the UK, particularly Kent, STM (Sevenoaks Tropic Marine) is worth a trip. They're knowledgeable and sell a range of ready built overflow systems from what I remember. Plus they have really decent stock for the UK.
http://www.stm-shop.co.uk/index.html
All these recommendations are based on memory of what I read while I was living in the UK last, when unfortunately I didn't have a tank, so no direct experience. Might be worth doing some research on Ultimate Reef if you need to get recommendations on the best tank option in the UK.
Fantastic stuff ape!
Yes I am indeed from the UK - Based in Essex in fact, with Kent being nearby I might have to go check out STM!
Looking at all the standard aquariums out there none of them seem to come with Sumps and Overflow systems (apart from the Red Sea setups of course). I thought from a quality of build point of view, it would probably be best to go for a good brand name and modify it from there. I have been in touch with Juwel and managed to get the internal dimensions of the cabinet to see if I can make my own sump - After looking around online, combined with my second to none handyman skills :p , it looks like a piece of cake! Its just deciding what to put in the sump! Every youtube video I have seen, people have put all sorts of different things in there!
For some bizarre reason, I am against purchasing a "ready to roll" system, kind of takes the fun out of modding your own system! Getting a standard tank and modifying it to my exact specifications and watching the fisnished product is an unbeatable feeling! I have never done anything this large before, so it comes with new challenges!
In regards to Lights, this is never usually a problem - I have noticed the Juwel have a range of High-Spec T5 lights specifically for Marine Setups - With these in place with some extra LED's for the anemones and some LED's for "night viewing" - This is shouldn't be a problem.
Wasn't too sure to go with Juwel's own skimmer, I haven't managed to find many reviews on it! http://www.petproductmarketing.co.uk/content.php?sid=274 To be fair, they only released it recently. What makes a good skimmer??? Peoples personal experiences or what the skimmer is techincally capable of doing? - Placing some sort of "holy" skimmer like you suggested above into the Sump might be a good move!
Powerheads - I see different reccommendations on a lot of different sites! So I don't really know what brand to go with yet! - Why did you suggest the Ecotech Vortechs?
Yes I am indeed from the UK - Based in Essex in fact, with Kent being nearby I might have to go check out STM!
Looking at all the standard aquariums out there none of them seem to come with Sumps and Overflow systems (apart from the Red Sea setups of course). I thought from a quality of build point of view, it would probably be best to go for a good brand name and modify it from there. I have been in touch with Juwel and managed to get the internal dimensions of the cabinet to see if I can make my own sump - After looking around online, combined with my second to none handyman skills :p , it looks like a piece of cake! Its just deciding what to put in the sump! Every youtube video I have seen, people have put all sorts of different things in there!
For some bizarre reason, I am against purchasing a "ready to roll" system, kind of takes the fun out of modding your own system! Getting a standard tank and modifying it to my exact specifications and watching the fisnished product is an unbeatable feeling! I have never done anything this large before, so it comes with new challenges!
In regards to Lights, this is never usually a problem - I have noticed the Juwel have a range of High-Spec T5 lights specifically for Marine Setups - With these in place with some extra LED's for the anemones and some LED's for "night viewing" - This is shouldn't be a problem.
Wasn't too sure to go with Juwel's own skimmer, I haven't managed to find many reviews on it! http://www.petproductmarketing.co.uk/content.php?sid=274 To be fair, they only released it recently. What makes a good skimmer??? Peoples personal experiences or what the skimmer is techincally capable of doing? - Placing some sort of "holy" skimmer like you suggested above into the Sump might be a good move!
Powerheads - I see different reccommendations on a lot of different sites! So I don't really know what brand to go with yet! - Why did you suggest the Ecotech Vortechs?
If you're in Essex, you might also want to check out Charterhouse Aquatics. I've not been, unlike STM, but it's got a good reputation I think. Whereabouts in Essex, btw? When I was still at school, I lived for 9 years up in a small village between Bishops Stortford and Saffron Walden.
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co...idx=1&osCsid=1c51d165fb8b9782e4d4aded408caeb8
Full credit to you if you want to go the DIY route. I could never face it, much preferring to have a set up that's designed to do the job. It tends to look a bit smoother, as you don't have to cut bits out, glue things together etc, but you're right there's probably not the same sense of achievement. The big challenge with the DIY route is drilling the glass for an overflow, but if you're confident about doing that and in working with silicon, you should be fine if you do your research (I don't know any of the details of how to do it, but plenty of people do, so it must work!). Plus, as you say, you'll have it done to your own specs and, unlike me, your DIY will probably not look messy, so you don't have that to worry about either.
The reason I recommended the Vortechs btw, is that they produce powerful yet diffuse flow which is ideal for a reef tank. They're probably the best product on the market today, with their nearest competitors being Tunze Streams/Nanostreams (very slightly more reliable, but unlike the Vortechs, they're not wireless and have a bigger profile in the tank plus fewer options for controlling the flow). I have Tunze Nanostreams, but that's mainly because I ordered them from overseas (the US) and wouldn't have the option of returning them if something went wrong (both products are high quality btw, it's probably only a minor difference in reliablity - maybe between a 1% and 0.5% failure rate, but not being in the same country as the shop I was buying from I decided to try and reduce my risk where I could). From what I know of anemones (and that's not a huge amount admittedly), they do well with this sort of diffuse flow (though they won't need quite the same power SPS corals do, the Vortechs and Streams are adjustable).
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co...idx=1&osCsid=1c51d165fb8b9782e4d4aded408caeb8
Full credit to you if you want to go the DIY route. I could never face it, much preferring to have a set up that's designed to do the job. It tends to look a bit smoother, as you don't have to cut bits out, glue things together etc, but you're right there's probably not the same sense of achievement. The big challenge with the DIY route is drilling the glass for an overflow, but if you're confident about doing that and in working with silicon, you should be fine if you do your research (I don't know any of the details of how to do it, but plenty of people do, so it must work!). Plus, as you say, you'll have it done to your own specs and, unlike me, your DIY will probably not look messy, so you don't have that to worry about either.
The reason I recommended the Vortechs btw, is that they produce powerful yet diffuse flow which is ideal for a reef tank. They're probably the best product on the market today, with their nearest competitors being Tunze Streams/Nanostreams (very slightly more reliable, but unlike the Vortechs, they're not wireless and have a bigger profile in the tank plus fewer options for controlling the flow). I have Tunze Nanostreams, but that's mainly because I ordered them from overseas (the US) and wouldn't have the option of returning them if something went wrong (both products are high quality btw, it's probably only a minor difference in reliablity - maybe between a 1% and 0.5% failure rate, but not being in the same country as the shop I was buying from I decided to try and reduce my risk where I could). From what I know of anemones (and that's not a huge amount admittedly), they do well with this sort of diffuse flow (though they won't need quite the same power SPS corals do, the Vortechs and Streams are adjustable).
I'm not sure I should tell you where in Essex in the fear of loosing whatever reputation that I have..... *cough* Southend-on-Sea *cough*
I've just been looking at the STM website and they have closed down the retail side of the business and only do mail orders now! Its a damn shame. Their 'home-made' tanks are a little chunky, but they would of saved me drilling and the cabinets are spacious.
I must admit, I have some sort of OCD obsession with perfection, I think this is what strives me to achieve high standards with any DIY work that I do. I have a nice viv with a Bearded Dragon and it does look truely amazing! Most people think it is professionally made!
I think the only part of modding my tank is cutting the glass for the overflow. So more research is required there! Out of all the DIY I have done, I have never cut glass before! :S
Ape, you got any links to what setup you have? Do you have a marine setup in Japan at the moment?
I've just been looking at the STM website and they have closed down the retail side of the business and only do mail orders now! Its a damn shame. Their 'home-made' tanks are a little chunky, but they would of saved me drilling and the cabinets are spacious.
I must admit, I have some sort of OCD obsession with perfection, I think this is what strives me to achieve high standards with any DIY work that I do. I have a nice viv with a Bearded Dragon and it does look truely amazing! Most people think it is professionally made!
I think the only part of modding my tank is cutting the glass for the overflow. So more research is required there! Out of all the DIY I have done, I have never cut glass before! :S
Ape, you got any links to what setup you have? Do you have a marine setup in Japan at the moment?
Southend, eh? Well, I've never been there, but it can't be as bad as all that can it?
Wow, that's a pity about STM. I can't see them reopening a shop front in the future, certainly not in the near future, no matter what they say. What with the current business climate and the trends in the hobby towards online vendors, it probably won't make sense to go back.
You're getting me interested in what your build's going to look like now! Have you got any pictures of your viv with the bearded dragon? Sounds worth showing off!
Here's a link to my tank thread (in the members' tank specifications forum). Not a whole lot to show yet, as it's still early days, but for what it's worth. There's an awful lot of me rabbiting on, so you might want to skip some of the pages. :wink:
http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic136894.html
Wow, that's a pity about STM. I can't see them reopening a shop front in the future, certainly not in the near future, no matter what they say. What with the current business climate and the trends in the hobby towards online vendors, it probably won't make sense to go back.
You're getting me interested in what your build's going to look like now! Have you got any pictures of your viv with the bearded dragon? Sounds worth showing off!
Here's a link to my tank thread (in the members' tank specifications forum). Not a whole lot to show yet, as it's still early days, but for what it's worth. There's an awful lot of me rabbiting on, so you might want to skip some of the pages. :wink:
http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic136894.html
Yes... it can be that bad. Not as bad as Basildon though :p
I was having an email chat with Chris from STM and he mentioned why he closed down etc etc - Also mentioned opening up again when the climate is right!
I haven't got any piccies with me today (at work again :p) - But if I manage to find my camera ill bring some in and post!
Nice looking tank there Tom - It's coming along nicely
Talking about drilling glass etc, I notice that Aqua Medic do an overflow (5000 l/h) that works without the need to dril the glass?
http://www.swelluk.com/aquarium/fis...-overflow-boxes-type1-2-2500-5000lph-459.html
I assume this work using syphoning?
I was having an email chat with Chris from STM and he mentioned why he closed down etc etc - Also mentioned opening up again when the climate is right!
I haven't got any piccies with me today (at work again :p) - But if I manage to find my camera ill bring some in and post!
Nice looking tank there Tom - It's coming along nicely
Talking about drilling glass etc, I notice that Aqua Medic do an overflow (5000 l/h) that works without the need to dril the glass?
http://www.swelluk.com/aquarium/fis...-overflow-boxes-type1-2-2500-5000lph-459.html
I assume this work using syphoning?
That's right. Lots of reefers wouldn't touch one with a bargepole though and I'm the same. The risk of the siphon breaking and messy consequences, however minimal, is enough to make most people think twice.
Good news about STM, I hope they do well. I always felt guilty when I went in there knowing I didn't have a tank in my near future. Ended up buying a magazine I didn't really need each time I went.
Thanks for the compliment about the tank. It's coming along and I'm enjoying having one again after a 4 year break!
Good news about STM, I hope they do well. I always felt guilty when I went in there knowing I didn't have a tank in my near future. Ended up buying a magazine I didn't really need each time I went.
Thanks for the compliment about the tank. It's coming along and I'm enjoying having one again after a 4 year break!
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