Downward Shift in pH

[Mario]

I hope some or an of you illustrious folks can help me.
I went ahead and bought a Pinpoint pH Monitor as I have been having trouble with low pH (of 7.0 at times).
Well surprise, surprise!! After the necessary calibration etc, installed it in the tank and it seems the pH drifts down over the day.

1. In the mid-morning I added the usual small dose of B-Ionic two parts. (alk and ca 2+)-(about 3ml for a 26 gallon tank).
2. pH was 7.6, went up to 8.4. That stuff is powerful.

3. In the evening the pH drifted down to 8.1.
4. Overnight it was at 7.9.
One day it went down to 7.5....scary....

Any insights?

(I am aware that pH is log based ie 1.0 shift is actually x10)

This goes on every day....Ca 2+ at 380 mg/dl and alk at 2.9 dKh.
Sand bed for over exactly 5 years now never changed.
About 11 clams various sizes.

 

[MikeyZO]

Its normal for pH to drop overnight. Has to do with the lighting and respiration phase of the tank. As 7.9 isnt that bad as long is it comes back up during the next day.

 

[reefman]

u have 11 clams in a 26 gal ?

ph fluctuates n thats y we record the range. a range of 8.0-8.4 is normally the range of most. the lowest is just before the lights turns on. the highest is just before the lights r off.
if the swing is too great, it usually means the alk is too low.

 

[Mario]

u have 11 clams in a 26 gal ?

ph fluctuates n thats y we record the range. a range of 8.0-8.4 is normally the range of most. the lowest is just before the lights turns on. the highest is just before the lights r off.
if the swing is too great, it usually means the alk is too low.

Yeah man, 11..but they are of various sizes..mostly small to medium sized...what can I say..love them devils...very little else really..a small bubble, kenya trees, a fungia etc

Unfortunately the swing appears greater than that. Went down to 7.0 at times...unless I keep adding the B-Ionic every day....

Any comments?

 

[MikeyZO]

Test and raise your alkalinity (if necessary). Having your Mg in check also helps keep everything stable as well. Seachem makes a buffer you can try. Will help raise Alk and pH is not supposed to go over 8.3 or 8.4.

 

[duke62]

for the b-ionic arent u supposed to add 1ml per every 4gal of water.you should be adding 6.5 ml when needed

 

[MikeyZO]

Wait... your alk is 2.9 dKH???

Either you're testing alkalinity and reading it in meq/L or youre alk is WAY low.

So I'm going to assume you meant meq/L and tell you that thats about 8 dKH, which is pretty much the lowest end you want your alkalinity to be. So IMO I would definately try raising it a bit and like I said, test your Mg.

 

[reefman]

7 is extremely low.do u have any pics of the tank?
how long has the clams been there

 

[KathyC]

Have to agree with the others..get a Magnesium kit, test & post your results.
Curious as to why you list your Calcium as Ca +2?
Your alk is clearly low and it is affecting your PH. (nice to see you understand just how bad that swing your are experiencing is!!)
Ideally you want to be dripping in your dosing over a longer period of time to minimize the PH swing...wheeeee...way too much!

You mention the sandbed is 5 years old, how deep is it? What kind of sand is it.
A pic of the tank would also be helpful! (and we want to see all of those clams! )

 

[Mario]

I meant Ca2+.
Dripping is a difficult option.
The sand bed is about 3 inches I would say.
Here is one of the pics. (have toi resize the others way too big kb wise)

Have to agree with the others..get a Magnesium kit, test & post your results.
Curious as to why you list your Calcium as Ca +2?
Your alk is clearly low and it is affecting your PH. (nice to see you understand just how bad that swing your are experiencing is!!)
Ideally you want to be dripping in your dosing over a longer period of time to minimize the PH swing...wheeeee...way too much!

You mention the sandbed is 5 years old, how deep is it? What kind of sand is it.
A pic of the tank would also be helpful! (and we want to see all of those clams! )

 

[Mario]

7 is extremely low.do u have any pics of the tank?
how long has the clams been there

The clams have been in the tank anywhere from 6 months to 2 years.
Yes 7.0 was very low....

Last night checked the pH it was 8.3
This morning it is 7.8!!!

Why such wide swings? Thats why I lost one of the teardop clams last month!! It was in the tank over 2 years..the oldest one

 

[Mario]

You are right..its meq/L and yes its usually around 2.5 to 3.0...
at the peak of the crisis it was 2.0....
...not like the Bank and AIG crisis, but came close...

Wait... your alk is 2.9 dKH???

Either you're testing alkalinity and reading it in meq/L or youre alk is WAY low.

So I'm going to assume you meant meq/L and tell you that thats about 8 dKH, which is pretty much the lowest end you want your alkalinity to be. So IMO I would definately try raising it a bit and like I said, test your Mg.

 

[Mario]

for the b-ionic arent u supposed to add 1ml per every 4gal of water.you should be adding 6.5 ml when needed

Yeah you are right, but the WIDE swing in pH when I add that scared the 'c..p" outa me....it went from 7.8 to 8.5 in a couple of minutes after the cloudiness disipated.!!!

 

[MikeyZO]

The clams have been in the tank anywhere from 6 months to 2 years.
Yes 7.0 was very low....

Last night checked the pH it was 8.3
This morning it is 7.8!!!

Why such wide swings? Thats why I lost one of the teardop clams last month!! It was in the tank over 2 years..the oldest one

Well as was stated earlier in the thread, its common for your pH to swing, and 7.8 to 8.3 is not unheard of. And like reefman said, its gonna be highest right when the lights go out and lowest before they come on. So this is not that bad. But yes, 7.8 might be a little lower then you would you like, ideally.

Also you said your alkalinity is usually 2.5 to 3.0, and was 2.0 at the peak of the crisis. So you can see why we are telling you to raise your alk. higher alk will mean a more steady pH. You can plainly see that for yourself. 2.0 alk, crisis swing. 3.0 alk, not too bad swing. What test kit are you using to test alk btw? NSW, if I remember correctly, has a alk of about 8 dKH (2.9ish meq/L). So you arent out of the ballpark with these numbers. The problem is that if your alk isnt staying naturally then that will cause your pH to swing more than it should. This is another reason we are suggesting to test your Mg. If your Mg is very low, this tends to lessen the overall stability of the water parametes, and can thus cause your alk drop and therefore your pH to swing more than it should.

It COULD also be that the 11 clams might be pulling an unusual amount of calcium out of the water (unusual for a 26 gallon tank, not unusual for the clams) and the constant drop in Ca is causing your alk to drop moreso then it should and thus causing your pH swing. You might, like KathyC said, be better off trying to introduce some sort of drip system into the tank.

 

[Mario]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you...

1. Yes measured the Mg2+ levels and they were normal (at least as Salifert Kit indicated).

2. Alkalinity test kit is Salifert and Aqwuarium Systems. Both show the same readings.

3. I think the issue about 1.5 months ago was I overdid it on the Ca2+ and never measured the pH to notice it fell to less than 7.8..maybe even 7.0 which was way too low. Hence the Tear Drop Maxima Clam loss...

One lives and learns. Now I dose twice a day both alk and ca in small amounts.

Thanks

Well as was stated earlier in the thread, its common for your pH to swing, and 7.8 to 8.3 is not unheard of. And like reefman said, its gonna be highest right when the lights go out and lowest before they come on. So this is not that bad. But yes, 7.8 might be a little lower then you would you like, ideally.

Also you said your alkalinity is usually 2.5 to 3.0, and was 2.0 at the peak of the crisis. So you can see why we are telling you to raise your alk. higher alk will mean a more steady pH. You can plainly see that for yourself. 2.0 alk, crisis swing. 3.0 alk, not too bad swing. What test kit are you using to test alk btw? NSW, if I remember correctly, has a alk of about 8 dKH (2.9ish meq/L). So you arent out of the ballpark with these numbers. The problem is that if your alk isnt staying naturally then that will cause your pH to swing more than it should. This is another reason we are suggesting to test your Mg. If your Mg is very low, this tends to lessen the overall stability of the water parametes, and can thus cause your alk drop and therefore your pH to swing more than it should.

It COULD also be that the 11 clams might be pulling an unusual amount of calcium out of the water (unusual for a 26 gallon tank, not unusual for the clams) and the constant drop in Ca is causing your alk to drop moreso then it should and thus causing your pH swing. You might, like KathyC said, be better off trying to introduce some sort of drip system into the tank.

 

[KathyC]

Going to find a couple more links for you. Lots of reading here but these articles are very informative..

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

One more...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php
Please heed his advice when it comes to quick fixes...those are the ones you want to avoid!

 

[Mario]

Thanks Kathy

Going to find a couple more links for you. Lots of reading here but these articles are very informative..

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

One more...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php
Please heed his advice when it comes to quick fixes...those are the ones you want to avoid!

 

[Mario]

Hello

Seems that the pH situation has resolved itself. I am impressed with the Pinpoint Monitor. I will make sure I take care of the probe itself so that it lasts a while.

Regards
Mario

Well as was stated earlier in the thread, its common for your pH to swing, and 7.8 to 8.3 is not unheard of. And like reefman said, its gonna be highest right when the lights go out and lowest before they come on. So this is not that bad. But yes, 7.8 might be a little lower then you would you like, ideally.

Also you said your alkalinity is usually 2.5 to 3.0, and was 2.0 at the peak of the crisis. So you can see why we are telling you to raise your alk. higher alk will mean a more steady pH. You can plainly see that for yourself. 2.0 alk, crisis swing. 3.0 alk, not too bad swing. What test kit are you using to test alk btw? NSW, if I remember correctly, has a alk of about 8 dKH (2.9ish meq/L). So you arent out of the ballpark with these numbers. The problem is that if your alk isnt staying naturally then that will cause your pH to swing more than it should. This is another reason we are suggesting to test your Mg. If your Mg is very low, this tends to lessen the overall stability of the water parametes, and can thus cause your alk drop and therefore your pH to swing more than it should.

It COULD also be that the 11 clams might be pulling an unusual amount of calcium out of the water (unusual for a 26 gallon tank, not unusual for the clams) and the constant drop in Ca is causing your alk to drop moreso then it should and thus causing your pH swing. You might, like KathyC said, be better off trying to introduce some sort of drip system into the tank.