New to reef keeping......

[Rayzor]

Hello everyone.....I've recently joined this site due to the extensive and high quality information all the hobbiest provide here. I am a (very) long time FW keeper (if u can call it that)....but keeping FW is nothing to the detail and complexity of starting a reef or saltwater tank. In my yrs. i have kept many (FW) fish...but my favorite and most extensive experience has been with cichlids both African and S.American varieties. I currently have a LONG established 55 gallon FW tank and I keep (1) buttikoferi (approx. 9'' long)....the tank runs on a Fluval 404 (which I adore). But in the past i have kept green terror, Jack Dempeys, as well as Mbuna cichlids....and many other types of small FW fish....too many to mention.
I have long adimired and the SW and reef tank Ive seen in LFSs and in public aquariums and friends homes.....but i never really had the time nor could i spare the expense of trying to keep one of my own. Recently, i decided to bite the bullet and try to join this (other world) of aquarium life and begin a reef of my own. Over the past few weeks I have read as much as possible on this and many other sites including Nano-Reef.com.....i slowly but surely have begun collecting most of the material i believe i will need to embark on this journey. Luckily, because of my many yrs of FW keeping (both at home and at work as well as helping a number of friend start up their own FW tanks) I had most of what i needed already at hand.
I will begin with a 30gal. long tank, i have a whisper HOB filter, a heater, a koralia powerhead, just purchased a hydrometer, a 36" SolarMaxHO lamp, some reef mix, a new thermometer, and after realizing that the stand i already had would not do......i ordered a new stand form Petco (still waiting to receive that). After i receive my stand (hopefully later this week) i will begin mixing my water and soon after will purchase live rock and live sand.....i am hoping to use a "natural filtration" method as decribed @ Nano-Reef.com ( www.nano-reef.com/articles/?article=3 )
I've noticed that many hobbiest out there have many opinions as to whether or not to use skimmmers, sumps, refugiums, dosing....etc...etc.
At least for me...as an untrained and untested SW hobbiest it seems that the 'natural' method offers the most affordable option to begin this endeavour. Any and all comments, help, suggestions, opinions, or (constructive)criticisms will be welcome. Regard me as a complete noob even though i am a FW keeper....because as i read more and more the less i realize i know.....who was it that said " the first step to enlightenment is to realize that you know nothing......"lol.......
Thanks

 

[topmav1]

1.Dont buy anything from Petco or Petland or any of those other mass pet chains.
2.Get a skimmer-Maybe nano's are diff but I wouldn't have a tank without a skimmer and sump-(don't tink that whisper will do anything for you...).
3.Is the Solarmax HO t-5 lights? How many watts total?
4.What do you plan on keeping in terms of corals?
5.Take your time.
6.Test kit-that you can actually buy from petco or something if u have to.
7. DO NOT USE TAP WATER or tap water with "stress coat" or some product that claims to make the water fish safe. US RO/DI water only.
8.Forget everything you know about FW cause SW is a whole new sport.
9.Brace Yourself and USE THIS FORUM.
10.Good Luck.
11.Again forget everything you know about FW. lol...

Dangerous territory when speaking about the "most affordable" options. There's no getting around the basic equipment that you need...the most affordable way to do it would be to buy used and post what you are looking for on this forum. Most of the time there are ppl selling things for cheaper than what you would normally pay.

 

[Rayzor]

Thanks for the start up info.....I'll take it all into consideration...one of my first questions is actually about a cover, lid or canopy for the tank.....ive noticed that there are many who dont use one........should i have one....do i need one. i assume it would reduce evaporation and keep critters from escaping....but im not sure why or why not.....

 

[Rayzor]

1. I totally understand the notion of supporting LFSs and staying away from the large conglomerates like petco, however, common sense dictates that when the item one needs is offered for the best price available at a (petco)like store one needs to make sensible choices....besides when i checked the LFSs over the weekend they wanted approx. $250 for a 36 x 12 tank stand and thats just ridiculous.....

2.Think I'll just be using the HOB for for water movement and occasional media use....are u suggesting skimmer/sump because of the size of my tank or do u recommend that for any tank regardless of size or choice of filtration method. According to what i've read: With this natural method, no protein skimmers or dosing is used. Studies of skimmers have shown that they remove various trace elements, along with pods and plankton. When people run protein skimmers, they dose trace elements to replenish them after their corals and skimmers use them. Because the skimmer removes most of the elements, such as iodine, it is dosed back in causing almost an endless cycle. The main problem this holds in nano reefing is that many of the trace elements cannot be easily tested for, so no one ever knows where their level is. This can lead to overdosing which will crash a nano reef in a matter of hours. The skimmer also begins to starve your corals by removing their food source. It's simply too risky.

3. 36" Double T5 High Output Light System from Deep Blue Professional. 39 Watt x 2 Lamps

• (1) 10,000K Daylight Lamp
• (1) Actinic-03 Lamp
• (6) Blue Moonlight LEDs

4. really have no idea what i plan on keeping....still getting familiar with all the choices and varieties and doing hours of research every nite. Most likely no fish for a while if ever......a moderate clean up crew and maybe begin with some of the hardier species of hard and soft coral considering my in experience and likelyhood of my making major mistakes in my first attempt....(any advice would be greatly appreciated)

5. I will take my time.......the first hurdle will be cycling i guess.......i think i can be patient...i still have my big buttikoferi to keep me entertained.....hes constantly messing with the gravel and building walls and hills.

6. I will get a test kit soon.....does anyone out there know a (good) iphone app that will help me journal my parameters.....(i know...i know....i could use a notebook....but wheres the fun in that) : D

7. Wow the whole tap water/ RODI controversy is one of the most irritating factors in all of my research......I've read enough to understand that the use of RO/DI water is the best way to go and helps to avoid many problems.....but to be honest i cant see lugging over 30 gallons of RO/DI from the LFS for the initial set up......i will definately purchase water for top offs and WCs.....because i can do that over time while the tank is cycling so it becomes less burdensome......and even the LFS was a little surprised at the notion of travelling with that much water....
Truly any more info that anyone wants to offer on this topic (besides exacerbating the topic) would still be helpful...what have other reefers out done for their initial set up...especially any newbies...those of u who recently started this for the first time..what did u do?

8. No need to explain that...lol....I can clearly see that this is a whole different bowl of wax.....

9. Again....I can clearly see that too.....this website and some others are an invaluable resource....Ive been reading for days and days before I even tried to post my introduction...

10. Thanks
11. Already done.....feel like I know nothing.....

Sorry for the long reply but I want very much to share the details of what I understand, what i've seen, read, and heard....in order to help me to be a better hobbiest....its a great thing that there are forums like these now to get good info.....

 

[topmav1]

1. Sorry...was referring to livestock from those pet places. And LFS aren't the best way to go sometimes either. One LFS that I do trust is Manhattan Aquariums on 37th bet 10th and 11th. Best place.
2. I know nothing about Nanos and if they require more or less so maybe a nano guy can help but yes I was referring to the general hobby. Skimmer/sump must for me.
3. Most corals i believe thrive under 3-4 watts per gallon of light. Some don't require that. Do the math and make sure you have enough. Start with Mushrooms, zoos, frogspawns aren't that fussy IMO.

7. DO NOT PUT TAP WATER IN YOUR TANK! END OF STORY...sorry.

Maybe Nano tanks are different but all i know is that the smaller the tank the less room for error. A spike in any of the normally tested parameters can wipe out your whole tank.

 

[prattreef]

First, welcome to MR.

A few things, you really should use RO or at least DI water from the very beginning. Investing a small unit to use at home is well worth it and there is no lugging involved. You can even use an Aquarium Pharmeceuticals Tap Water Purifier to get you started--not the most economical approach, but feasible for your size aquarium.

You certainly can run a system this size and larger without a skimmer if you keep up with water changes and know what you are doing but the article you posted as your guide is weak at best and I rarely if ever recommend going skimmerless to a beginner. Depending on what you decide to keep you eventually will need to supplement Calcium and Alkalinity as water changes will not keep up with demand.

 

[FrostyNYC]

Rayzor,
A lot of the information posted in this forum tends to contradict the information and experiences of people at Nano-reef. As you know from nano-reef, small tanks are really very reliant on water changes, and because they also tend to have small bioloads (or should!) skimmers arent as necessary. However, at 30 gallons, you're at the border of "nano" and almost into the realm of normal reefkeeping. I'm just starting out as well (12 gallon nano cube), and I've been reading reading reading before I even fill my tank with water.

A couple things that I'm not sure anyone has mentioned... have you considered a sump filled with chaeto? I would use the HOB for filter floss if you're ready to change it every couple of days, or probably for chemical filtration. Are you going to use a phosphate absorber or purigen or carbon?

You're planning on starting with "hardier species of hard and soft coral"? Hmmm I was planning on starting with shrooms and zoas, maybe a GSP.

Finally, I'd probably side with everyone else and say go for the RO/DI or distilled water. It'd suck to get a major algae bloom right off the bat. Trust me, I know it stinks when you dont have a RODI unit. Plus, carting water around when you don't have a car isnt easy either.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Welcome to MR

 

[cali_reef]

The thought of carrying 18 gallons of water a month (20% water change=6 gallons and 3+ gallons for top off each week) around would make me not want to have a fish tank.. Invest in a $150 RO/DI and save your back..

You'll be spending a lot more money to get you started in this hobby, check the for sale section on this site to save some money.

 

[Rayzor]

Well i bought and installed the reef sand (aragonite) and 12lbs of Fiji live rock from Manhattan Aquariums. A special thank to the employee that helped pick out some "really" choice pieces. I will be getting more rock in the near future, i just wanted to get the cycle started. And while everyones descriptions of Manhattan Aquariums were great....it pales to actually visiting. Purchased a wonderful (flat) piece of live rock abounding with life....as a matter of fact....when we got it home my wife shrieked with delight when she found a serpent star hitchhiker in the bag. So far I've seen some very small snails, some tube worms.....there are (what the LFS employee said were) some zoas and probably much more that i cant see yet. Im hoping that most of the hitchhikers will survive the cycling process......now waiting for the tank to clear some after adding the sand. Any suggestions on cleaning off the live rock after all settles.....we want to be able to see that lovely purple coloration while we wait for the cycle to progress.

 

[SmiLeyP414]

i agree with this all i learned the hard way

 

[SmiLeyP414]

1.Dont buy anything from Petco or Petland or any of those other mass pet chains.
2.Get a skimmer-Maybe nano's are diff but I wouldn't have a tank without a skimmer and sump-(don't tink that whisper will do anything for you...).
3.Is the Solarmax HO t-5 lights? How many watts total?
4.What do you plan on keeping in terms of corals?
5.Take your time.
6.Test kit-that you can actually buy from petco or something if u have to.
7. DO NOT USE TAP WATER or tap water with "stress coat" or some product that claims to make the water fish safe. US RO/DI water only.
8.Forget everything you know about FW cause SW is a whole new sport.
9.Brace Yourself and USE THIS FORUM.
10.Good Luck.
11.Again forget everything you know about FW. lol...

Dangerous territory when speaking about the "most affordable" options. There's no getting around the basic equipment that you need...the most affordable way to do it would be to buy used and post what you are looking for on this forum. Most of the time there are ppl selling things for cheaper than what you would normally pay.

this is very helpful thanks for all the advice

 

[topmav1]

Great. I learned the hard way too! Glad I can help.

 

[Rayzor]

1st week Establishment

I am now well into my first week of establishing my tank....things seem ok so far....(crossed fingers). Had some trouble with my Whisper 60 which i was using to clear up some of the cloudiness i experienced after installing my aragonite...that was taken care of and yesterday i came home to a sparkling clear tank. Did some maintanence....cleaned sand particles from Koralias and glass wall of the tank....i also used a turkey baster to blast clean some of the sand off my LR. The LR and the water (after some more settling) looks marvelous....so many organisms running around scavenging....tons of fun to watch (even just that). Letting the cycle take its course....havent bought my test kits yet...(will soon) but so far the SG indicates somewhere between 1.023 and 1.024 maybe a touch higher....wanted to wait til the tank got clearer before i tested salinity... May hit Manhattan Aquariums again this weekend for more LR and maybe aquascape a bit....
Have seen some great mods where aquarists have modded HOB fliters into fuges.....i am using an HOB and i have a 10 gal settled in beneath the main tank inside the stand.....im wondering if i could turn either one into a fuge or sump....right now i am just using the HOB for floss filter and carbon and the (10 gal for (manually) topping off and eventually water changes).
Anyone that may be checking on this progress is MORE than welcome to comment or suggest anything....any ideas on the creation, uses and benefits of having a sump or fuge.....i understand very little about them except that they are used to create better water quality.
I'll eventually try to post some pics.....

 

[dubs]

welcome to mr

 

[Rayzor]

thanks Dubs....and thanks to all the knowledgeable and welcoming members on this forum.........

 

[BIG L A]

Welcome to MR Rayzor

 

[motortrendz]

hey how bout some pics... sounds like your gonna fit right in! im new to this site, i love it! theres nothing better out there.. the response you get and the info is always top notch! good luck and happy reefing!

I HAVE GREAT IDEAS!... JUST BAD TIMING!

 

[NDY]

Welcome to MR
And show us the pics lol best of luck

 

[topmav1]

Rayzor, get an external overflow and make the 10 gallon tank the sump. You won't be able to run this tank with a whisper filter. You can make the 10 gal and sump/fuge. There are plenty of DIY articles with 10gal details. Do you have a skimmer?