New Reefer Questions

[Rayzor]

I have a thread going in the "New to Reefing" section...but my latest msg has been overlooked so i thought id try creating a new thread...heres my post:

Hey Guys (and Gals).....Im into the third week of cycling my first saltwater reef. Things seem to be going well (i think)....Bought another 20lbs of LR at Manhattan Aquariums, added it to the tank....now at just over 30lbs of LR in a 30 gallon. I have some questions: there is a good amount of brown stuff?(discoloration) on a bit of the rock, some on the powerheads and all over the substrate. Im figuring this is the much talked about cyanobacteria....and Ive read that this is normal for a newly established tank that is cycling. Will this go away on its own...it is also creeping up the glass and I am anxious to clean it off....but Ive held off. There are many, many creepy crawly (insect-like), very tiny organisms on the glass as well....so I am reluctant to scrub at the glass and disturb these creatures. My thinking is that these (insects)may be feeding on the bacteria. Cant give particulars on parameters because ive yet to purchase any kit...will do so soon.
I am slowly but surely working on researching and developing a plan to convert a ten gallon (just got a 15 gallon tall also) into a sump/fuge...
anyway...my initial question ( there may be many more to come) is.... since i wont be drilling into my tank i will be (eventually) getting an overflow box....the ones im thinking about are the Eshopps PF 300 or the CPR cs50 which are rated at 300 gph.....am i correct in assuming that i will need to get a return pump that will pump water back into the tank at 300gph (@ 3-4feet)? Thanks in advance.....Happy reefing everyone.......

30 gallon tank
Koralia1 X 2
Whisper60 HOB
36" SolarMax T5 w/6 moonlight LED's
30lbs LR
40lbs Aragonite
SG= 1.024
Cycling week 3
some small anemones
various small polyps
some sea stars ( one large guy)
and another few things i cant identify.....

 

[basiab]

Sounds ok. See if you can siphon the stuff out with a turkey baster.
If you have a large star fish it needs an established tank if it is going to stay alive. See if your LFS will give you credit or try selling it here.

 

[greenycrew]

You definitely want an overflow with a little HIGHER GPH than your return pump counting head height... Another option is to set up a t valve on the line from the overflow to sump. This will allow you to decrease the overflow GPH if it is outpacing your pump.

 

[greenycrew]

Also I dont think the browns stuff is cyano...Cyano is called cyano, due to its reddish purple color.
Probably just diatoms and hair algae. Siphon it out as needed. Have you been measuring ammonia, nitrites, nitrates.

 

[beerfish]

The brown stuff is most likely a diatom bloom, and is natural during a tank cycle. It will go away on it's own. Cyano is generally red. The insect like organisms on the glass are probably copepods. You can clean the glass and they'll be right back on it tomorrow. No need to worry about them.

As far as the starfish, when you say one large guy, do you mean a large asterina starfish? They can get about the size of a nickel, but if you try to sell an asterina as suggested above, people will probably laugh.

Otherwise you seem to be off to a good start. Keep researching and asking questions and you'll be in good shape.

 

[Rayzor]

Thnks for the advice....
I'll take ur word for it on the brown stuff....
My concern is that there are tiny white (insectlike) thingys on the glass as well...and They ( seem to be) feeding on this stuff...I'd like to
Clean the glass but I don't want hurt things that may be good for the tank at this stage....also there seem to be a super tiny anemone on the glass too and if I scrub I'll definately kill it.
Should I just be patient...will this stuff go away on it's own...(reminder: it's
Only week three) water is very nice and clear but the brown gook makes it hard to see....


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[greenycrew]

If it bothers you scrub it... It wont do any harm at all. It will go away on its own, but no reason not to help it out if it bothers you. As far as the stuff on it, probably just some plankton/copepods. You might kill a few but no big deal... They reproduce so fast.

 

[Rayzor]

Thanks again...think I'll try to at least clean off the glass later tonight...guess for now I'll just try to clean around the tiny anemone on the glass.
The sea star i mentioned looks like this:
It seems to be ok....there are various small ones ( no more than an inch )
the larger one has to be about 5 inches across...each reaches out of caves and holes in the LR and creeps small bits up their arms to the center of their bodies. All the stuff i mentioned earlier came on my LR as hitchhikers including the sea stars...
The stuff i see is definitely brownish....when it first appeared on the sand we could see that it was releasing small bubbles of gas...still is but not nearly as much....the same stuff on the glass seems to have started as brownish gook and now seems to be producing tiny filaments...
As far as testing...Ive yet to purchase a testing kit.....one of the employees at Manhattan Aquariums told me to avoid test kits that use color strip because they can be inaccurate and hard to read....any recommendations on a good testing kit....is there one that includes all major parameters (ph, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite) or are they separate kits for each.....(sry super newb)....
also thanks for the tips on overflow and return....I'll be working on making a sump/fuge soon...just want to accumulate as much info as possible before i begin.....
And a special shout out to all the wives, husbands, and significant others in our lives that put up with and support our interests in this amazing hobby.....

 

[KathyC]

If you are running any lighting during your cycle - shut it off, you will grow a lot of algae otherwise.

Unless you are putting food in the tank for the 5" starfish to eat, he will die. Might be a good idea to try and either sell him until your tank is ready or trade him to a LFS for credit.

MA is correct - test strips are garbage.
You do want separate kits - either by Salifert, Elos or LaMotte - you will need Calcium, Magnesium, Alkalinity. Test kits by API are fine for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and PH

 

[greenycrew]

I like the API reef master kit.. Includes Calcium, Carbonate and Phosphate. Accurate enough for me. I also use the api saltwater for PH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. I also have the salifert for nitrate, phosphate, and calcium, alk(they are extremely good and accurate, but are all very expensive). I say just get the API kits for now... Should be about $50 for the two of them. If you think you need anything more accurate you can always buy saliferts later or just have manhattan aquarium test your water every so often.

 

[Rayzor]

Think I'll head to MA again this weekend and have them do my first water test....I'll see what test kits they have for sale there. Cleaned the glass up....and everything is so nice and clear.....
What would one feed a sea star??? I dont want to unnecessarily harm the animals in my tank but like i said its been three weeks since i bought the rock that the sea star hitched to and he seems ok (i know that may not mean much considering my experience with SW critters) but if he needs feeding I'll do it.....I've read others accounts of trying to catch one in their tanks and having a very hard time....so needless to say I dont expect to have much luck if i have to try to get it out.

 

[greenycrew]

Don't worry about feeding the tiny seastars... I actually got some of my live rock from MA and it was full of those. They are pretty much detritus eaters and will feed off of any accumulating organic material which I am sure your tank is currently full of as it is cycling.

 

[Rayzor]

Figured as much...re: sea stars...
Couldn't imagine that MA was feeding them while they were in the LR holding tank waiting to be sold....
Saw some tiny snails tonite...very very tiny though...I assume they'll grow...doesn't lessen my anxiousness to get my CUC though....I'll wait and see what they say when I get my water tested.....


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[greenycrew]

Just checked your setup... Why are you running a whisper filter???? No reason for it with your 30lbs of LR... Also you planning to get a skimmer?

 

[Rayzor]

hey Green....yeah im just running a whisper60 basically to run some carbon.....as far as the skimmer thing is concerned...I think ill be running skimmerless....the research I've done indicates that I could be removing beneficial nutrients using a skimmer regularly...requiring additional dosing (which i may not be prepared for)....
I will be attempting to control the build up of other nutrients through religious weekly water changes......
I am considering creating a sump/fuge and Im hoping that the overflow box i purchase will do enough skimming on its own...but that will all happen when i get more info and materials to start the build....
Here is a small part of the info Im using to develop my tank maintanence plan.....
With this natural method, no protein skimmers or dosing is used. Studies of skimmers have shown that they remove various trace elements, along with pods and plankton. When people run protein skimmers, they dose trace elements to replenish them after their corals and skimmers use them. Because the skimmer removes most of the elements, such as iodine, it is dosed back in causing almost an endless cycle. The main problem this holds in nano reefing is that many of the trace elements cannot be easily tested for, so no one ever knows where their level is. This can lead to overdosing which will crash a nano reef in a matter of hours. The skimmer also begins to starve your corals by removing their food source. It's simply too risky.

I'm taking things extremely slowly so if I run into trouble I can make changes before I have any kind of livestock (store bought corals or small fish)so i am not wasting $$ and needlessly killing livestock because of rookie mistakes....

 

[irvp13]

I like the API tests, might not be the best, but they work fine. Thats pretty good, take it slow, one thing at the time and keep upgrading, adding equipment and making changes as needed.

 

[Rayzor]

I like the API tests, might not be the best, but they work fine. Thats pretty good, take it slow, one thing at the time and keep upgrading, adding equipment and making changes as needed.

Hey irvp...yeah I may go with API.... The two name brand I keep reading on all the forums i haunt are API and Salifert.....seems the latter is the more expensive option...
New question though...I have six or seven (what Im guessing are aiptasia anemones) hitchhikers in my tank....although they look cool to a new reefer like me...it's seems they are actually an undesirable nuisance in a reef tank....should I buy a product to remove or destroy them or has anyone had success with (I believe) peppermint shrimp eradicating them thru predation?
Some are brown others whiteish or clear in color, with slender arms...any early advice as to what to do would be most helpful......


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[greenycrew]

As far as the aiptasia's go... I know MA has peppermint shrimps. I have used them before for control and it worked pretty well. If you only have a few though you would probably be better off getting Joe's juice and just injecting them.

 

[Rayzor]

Yeah Green....i have about 6 or 7 larger ones (1" or so) but as i look there may be other much much smaller ones.....
Right now (week3) its one of the only things in the tank we can enjoy watching but it seems that eradicating them early on in the process is probably the best......
Guess I'll mention it when it go to MA.....see if they'll help me "Whack" the Aiptasia.....
Does anyone happen to know if they are to be removed when they die or left in??? weird question i guess........:biglaugh:

 

[KathyC]

Yeah Green....i have about 6 or 7 larger ones (1" or so) but as i look there may be other much much smaller ones.....
Right now (week3) its one of the only things in the tank we can enjoy watching but it seems that eradicating them early on in the process is probably the best......
Guess I'll mention it when it go to MA.....see if they'll help me "Whack" the Aiptasia.....
Does anyone happen to know if they are to be removed when they die or left in??? weird question i guess........:biglaugh:

The Aiptasia? No need to remove them if you use nuke them, but you do need to be aware what you nuke them with will probably affect some of your water parameters.

Since you are still cycling your tank, do not add peppermint shrimp (which are hit & miss anyway with aiptasia).

Just curious, are you expecting MA to test all of your water parameters for you?
As I suggested earlier, API kits are fine for ammonia, nitrite nitrate & PH, but you DO want the better kits for Ca, Alk & Mg.

hey Green....yeah im just running a whisper60 basically to run some carbon.....as far as the skimmer thing is concerned...I think ill be running skimmerless....the research I've done indicates that I could be removing beneficial nutrients using a skimmer regularly...requiring additional dosing (which i may not be prepared for)....
I will be attempting to control the build up of other nutrients through religious weekly water changes......
I am considering creating a sump/fuge and Im hoping that the overflow box i purchase will do enough skimming on its own...but that will all happen when i get more info and materials to start the build....
Here is a small part of the info Im using to develop my tank maintanence plan.....
With this natural method, no protein skimmers or dosing is used. Studies of skimmers have shown that they remove various trace elements, along with pods and plankton. When people run protein skimmers, they dose trace elements to replenish them after their corals and skimmers use them. Because the skimmer removes most of the elements, such as iodine, it is dosed back in causing almost an endless cycle. The main problem this holds in nano reefing is that many of the trace elements cannot be easily tested for, so no one ever knows where their level is. This can lead to overdosing which will crash a nano reef in a matter of hours. The skimmer also begins to starve your corals by removing their food source. It's simply too risky.

Overflow boxes do not skim anything, they simply move water.

In the quote...the bolded part...that's news to me, endless cycle eh?
I can also show you volumes of pics of fabulous looking tanks, with wildly colored corals that have skimmers running on them.
Not everyone who runs a skimmer doses their tank, that is usually dependent on what kind of corals one plans to keep (some corals (SPS for one) use the elements in salt mix much faster than other types of corals.

You posted you plan to do religious (good for you!) water changes, those water changes will replace whatever your corals use from the water column.

Where did the quote come from?

As far as the starfish..the tiny ones can easily live off of the life that is in the rock in your tank (as they did at MA). You still do have an issue with the 5" star. Keep in mind the live rock bin at MA (where you purchased the rock..yes?) is basically a 'cycled tank' and I'm sure it is loaded with all sorts of things the star could have been eating in there.
Perhaps you can call MA before going there this weekend and ask if they can hold the star for you until you are done with your cycle (and will then be able to feed him in your own tank )